I always have some off-the-wall question.... a Mazda pickup this time.

[JollySipper]

Here goes my question...... I've found what could be a cool little project pickup on Craigslist. The guy only wants $300 for it. It would need an engine, but is otherwise in good shape! So that has me wondering, has anyone ever swapped a Miata engine into anything? The little truck is a Mazda, and short of an RX7 engine, I believe the Miata would be a peppy little transplant. Here's a pic from the ad............

I can just picture it with fender flares and a sticky wheel and tire combo to aid in enjoying the little engine! A bit of a corner carver...........

So, what say my mechanic friends? Would a Miata engine be a good idea?

Edited August 4 by JollySipper

[rattle can man]

The question is what engine is the truck. If you google Mazda B series engines you might be surprised how many vehicles used this engine family. The same engine block used in the Miata was used throughout the Mazda line-up and in some Fords, Mercurys, and Kias (through 2000ish) from the mid 80's into the 90's. The 1.3L in Ford Festiva and Aspire was externally identical to the 1.6L (1.6L was just a bored out 1.3), so a swap of these two is simply a bolt in swap.  But you may need to swap the computers or switch to aftermarket engine management. Find a Turbo 1.6L from a Mercury Capri or Mada 323 for some scoot. 

Clearance issues need to be checked for. Twin cam 1.6L heads are wider than single cam heads. Miata accessories mounted in different locations on than the front-wheel drives. Front wheel drive engines and rear wheel drive engines have the distributor at opposite ends of the block. And the B8 (1.8L) variant had a longer block to accommodate the larger bore.

How do I know this? I've read up on engine swaps for Ford Festivas.

[stavanzer]

I've driven a B2000 pickup back in the day. I really liked it. It was a Shop Truck but I used it to deliver parts a couple of times. It took the Grapevine (Hwy 99/I5-5) to Los Angeles with ease.

Sounds like fun project!

[JollySipper]

1 hour ago, rattle can man said:

Miata accessories mounted in different locations on than the front-wheel drives. Front wheel drive engines and rear wheel drive engines have the distributor at opposite ends of the block.

This is kinda the reason I was thinking the Miata would be a good donor, it being RWD........ and there's a bunch of them around here! 

I'm sure the engines are nothing alike, but I had a Mazda hatchback for a while as a work car. It held up until 250K miles! The clutch finally went out...... That little car got me to a bunch of jobs!

[stitchdup]

if you look for a second generation 1.8 miata you can get an improved engine and a turbo depending on the model. some of the first gens had a bit of a habit of blowing the head gasket if it has been sitting while the later ones seem to handle being left for longer. also that truck looks to be in pretty good shape but give the rails from the seats to rear axle a very good inspection. if its been overloaded too often they can crack from the top down unlike landrover that crack from the bottom. You might even find the front suspension and rear gears will fit the truck. The miata is getting popular for morris minors now in europe so there should be engine mounts and stuff available if the truck ones dont work

[Zoom Zoom]

I bought a new 1986.5 B2200 SE-5, great little truck. 

The example shown is a B2600 extended cab, that's a Mitsubishi engine. 3100 lb. truck w/122 HP from the factory. If you want to do an engine swap, consider that this is a vehicle that weighs 800 lbs. more than an early Miata. 

As an example, my Mazda-obsessed buddy got a B2600 extended cab and did a 13B rotary conversion for a more modern '80's take on the Mazda REPU from the 70's that was based on the Ford Courier. In theory an interesting conversion for overall horsepower, but reality is it felt like a dog because rotaries make all their HP above 5,000 RPM. It was totally gutless in normal traffic. Probably needed a different transmission with shorter gears. He ended up selling it to someone else. It was a quality conversion by a master Mazda mechanic, but the results were underwhelming. 

Trucks need some torque. You aren't going to get a bit of torque out of an early Miata engine w/o a turbo or supercharger. 

3rd generation (06-'15) Miatas ran a 2.0 MZR. A popular swap for them is getting a 2.5 out of something like a Ford Fusion which revs a bit slower but makes more HP and torque.

If you're going to go to the effort of a motor swap, you need to do a lot of research. That truck doesn't need a ton of HP, it needs torque. In theory a Miata motor might be a fun idea, but reality is it'll be a lot of work for a very underpowered truck. I'm sure if you dig around you can find some information on what other people have put into the old Mazda PU's for more HP at minimal cost for a decent junkyard engine swap.

Edited August 4 by Zoom Zoom

[slusher]

I drove one of those trucks and was impressed how good it drove almost new new in the mid 80’s.. I have not seen one on the road in a long time…

[Rob Hall]

I remember seeing those in the late 80s..my late older brother was a salesman at the local VW-Mazda dealer in the late 80s-early 90s and he liked them a lot, though he drove an '84 Chevy S-10. 

Edited August 4 by Rob Hall

[Mike 1017]

TJ,

Get some info from a Miata Car Club or a Miata Forum

[rattle can man]

If it is a different engine series in the truck, it will mean a little more work. But you can do anything as long as you have the time and resources.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Zoom Zoom got it right. 

The additional weight of the truck over an early Miata is the major consideration.

Edited August 4 by Ace-Garageguy

[NOBLNG]

See if you can find a Mazda forum that has a truck section. You could likely get some experienced advice there. Here’s a couple.

https://www.mazdaworld.org/forums/b-series-truck.109/

https://www.mazdaforum.com/forum/mazda-bt-50-pickup-trucks-18/b2600-47009/

 

 

Edited August 4 by NOBLNG

[iamsuperdan]

Would be very cool for sure. Heck, that truck left bone stock would be very cool!

 

However, a Miata swap would be relatively straight forward. But as others have said, the truck is heaqvier, so would the extra power a stock Miata engine has be worth the effort in the heavier platform?

Now...the Miata aftermarket is plentiful, so a miata engine, with some new parts and maybe a turbo? ow you've got something awesome, and not insanely expensive.

 

Body looks super clean on the truck. For $300, I'd probably buy it anyway.

 

[JollySipper]

Thanks for the replies, fellas! Here's a link to the ad for the truck, so you can have a better idea of it's condition......

https://raleigh.craigslist.org/pts/d/raleigh-1989-mazda-b2600i-5spd-manual/7862640615.html

I wouldn't be against swapping in another stock truck engine, but the one in it has a bunch of miles on it, so it may not be worth a rebuild.........

 

[LDO]

https://theoegarage.shop/products/mazda-b-series-ls-swap-kit?srsltid=AfmBOor-mnCqfKIpkk3UNmeBBOpvOmDRDnzh6AHYJcFE0Vb8t7wbrbKy

[JollySipper]

Now, That would be nice, an LS swap! There must be thousands of those engines in the pick-n-pulls here.......... Even the little 5.3 would be plenty........

[Ace-Garageguy]

Not my favorite engine of all time, but GM's older even-fire 4.3 V6 would be in my top 5 candidates-for-swapping list.

It's basically a smallblock Chevy with two cylinders removed, pretty much bulletproof reliable if you get a good one.

Though thousands were stupidly destroyed by the "cash for clunkers" program, there should still be many many many available for reasonable money...and they came equipped with a variety of manual and automatic gearboxes, making the driveline swap easier. A custom-length driveshaft with the appropriate GM trans yoke is all you need there.

IMHO the desirable years for swaps are '87-2006  (in '87 they got a one-piece rear main seal like the SBC, in '92 they got a balance shaft that smoothes them out some, and 2006 was the last year for a separate distributor).

These are all in the 130-165 HP range, with 210-235 lb/ft of torque.

A distributor-equipped engine with a carburetor would be the easiest swap, not requiring integration of any electronics (which can get very expensive very fast if typical car-chimps get involved).

EDIT: The 4.3 in my '96 Blazer is entirely adequate to pull a reasonable trailer with a 4000-pound vehicle, driving through an automatic.

My Blazer weighs about 900 pounds more than your little pickup, and a V6 engine would be a vastly easier swap than a V8.

 

Edited August 4 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

51 minutes ago, JollySipper said:

Now, That would be nice, an LS swap! There must be thousands of those engines in the pick-n-pulls here.......... Even the little 5.3 would be plenty........

The stock 5.3 LS makes around 325HP and 340 lb/ft of torque. Yeah, that would get you down the road.

^^^ See my post above...

 

EDIT: A fully dressed (accessories like steering pump, alternator, etc.) aluminum LS weighs around the same as a dressed cast-iron even-fire 4.3 V6, so there's that.

But REMEMBER...not all LS engines are aluminum. The ones that came in trucks are mostly cast iron, much heavier.

EDIT 2: Last fully dressed LS I swapped (into a '47 Caddy) was a low-mileage takeout from a 2000 Corvette wreck. IIRC, the engine and 4L60E slushbox, including the engine harness, black box, and drive-by-wire throttle pedal ran around $3500. I paid another $1500 to get the black box reprogrammed for stand-alone operation with the gearbox, and an engine bay harness with all new sensors, and nothing dangling and useless.

After that you're looking at custom engine and trans mounts, exhaust work to connect the factory manifolds and probably a decent system all the way to the tail, driveshaft mods, a custom radiator, and appropriate fuel system mods.

Edited August 5 by Ace-Garageguy

[slusher]

would it be reasonable to by a longblock from autozone" would the air still work after years of sitting? Going to need carpet and radiator and might as well do clutch and pressure plate throw out Bering it adds up quick "..

[stavanzer]

You know...

For the work needed for a swap, it might be just as easy to to do a complete rebuild of the existing engine. You can probably "Massage" it a bit to get some extra ponies, and you'd have a very nice little truck. Leaving it stock will make it easier to sell at some future date, if it comes to that.

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 hours ago, stavanzer said:

You know...

For the work needed for a swap, it might be just as easy to to do a complete rebuild of the existing engine. You can probably "Massage" it a bit to get some extra ponies, and you'd have a very nice little truck. Leaving it stock will make it easier to sell at some future date, if it comes to that.

Excellent point.

The only problem is that these days, there are almost no mechanics or shops even capable of rebuilding an engine with standard replacement parts, assuming it's not worn to the point it needs a crank turned or a block overbored. Need machine work and careful assembly, measuring, and fitting everything afterwards? Pretty much forget it unless you know one of the increasingly rare old-school shops. Good luck.

I understand Jasper is still rebuilding engines, but their quality (in my personal experience) wasn't great in 1977. Who knows now?

Edited August 5 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

I did some research. Remanufactured engines for these are in the $3500 range, plus crating, shipping, and installation.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293038163145?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235078481247?

https://www.sandjengines.com/product/1989~Mazda~MPV~1107?srsltid=AfmBOop6bdL52cbGR6f0eaLQVgoT9jmrelJBqCVwRT2AbnxafTV7emJw

https://www.firstusedautoparts.com/post/rebuilt-mazda-b2600-engine-for-sale?srsltid=AfmBOopgqGaD8u3N_6L2XRZ58cEXldEP8kMO_zcfOcvzIJaJwzDeARIf

Edited August 5 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

Or if you want to broaden your horizons, try rebuilding it yourself...

https://www.mazdaworld.org/threads/build-thread-b2600i-4x4.340896/

[Rodent]

As was pointed out earlier, this is a Mitsubishi engine, not a Mazda. Way back last century when I sold parts, the major failure of these things was the balance shafts/bearings, which is what claimed this one. IF the rebuilders could  get a rebuildable core, they performed some magic to shut off the oil to the balance shaft area and left them out. Not sure what has changed over the years, but probably not much.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Rodent said:

As was pointed out earlier, this is a Mitsubishi engine, not a Mazda. Way back last century when I sold parts, the major failure of these things was the balance shafts/bearings, which is what claimed this one. IF the rebuilders could  get a rebuildable core, they performed some magic to shut off the oil to the balance shaft area and left them out. Not sure what has changed over the years, but probably not much.

When I had the fleet services company, our largest client had dozens of Mitsu trucks running the (IIRC) 2-liter L4 that also had balance shaft issues, primarily drive belts stripping and allowing other internal rotating parts to contact balance shaft weights.

As the older trucks aged out, I bought one and experimented with disabling the balance shafts, and locking them in position. I noticed no difference in engine roughness without them spinning, and began performing the same mods on all the trucks as they came due for timing belts. Zero B-S problems after that.

I see there are "balance-shaft delete kits" available for a lot of engines now.

It's generally thought that 2.4 liters is about the upper limit an L4 can go without balance shafts because of the inherent "rocking couple" of L4 engines.

 

Edited August 5 by Ace-Garageguy