Improving your modeling skills

[spkgibson]

I to build snap kits , They are a fun quick build, Those were the ages I started building Models, Thats what I ment.

[highway]

  On 12/14/2010 at 11:23 PM, spkgibson said:

I to build snap kits , They are a fun quick build, Those were the ages I started building Models, Thats what I ment.

Gottcha!

[JustBill]

  On 12/14/2010 at 10:40 PM, Harry P. said:

It seems so ridiculously obvious to me: if you post photos of your work on a public forum, then be prepared for comments from the members, positive and negative.

If you can't take criticism, save yourself the trauma and just don't post your work! It seems ridiculous to me when people post their work on a forum and then get angry, offended or defensive if anyone points out a problem or flaw in their work.

And the flip side of that, of course, is to keep your comments specific, direct, and if possible, offer a suggestion or solution to the problem you see. There is a difference between making an honest comment and slamming a guy.

This is absolutely beautiful!!! I couldn't agree more. Someone stated early that we should make a note on our post as to whether or not we want to be critiqued. I disagree. I'm new to the site and only been building about two years on and off. Time and life don't always allow me to build nearly as much as I like. So I built for awhile before joining any forums just to get back in the swing of things from building as a kid. I started posting on forums for feed back, positive or negative cause I want to improve on my building. Not to mention the countless hours of researching how to do things by reading post from other members. Its one thing to gather and have knowledge, its another to apply it! So by posting my work and getting feed back how would I know if a new technique I learned and tried actually worked unless I get feed back? Maybe it looks good to me but everyone else sees something different. By doing this interaction not only are you learning but also making a relationship and are able to make friends to share this hobby with.

[Peter Lombardo]

I have two "rules of thumb" that I try and follow when it comes to critiquing someone else's work here on this forum. One, I would only consider a , well lets just say, less than "at'a'boy comment if the poster specifically asks for up or down comments, and two, if the criticism is rather strong, but meant in a way that is trying to be helpful, I would rather do it in a PM post. I don't think it is appropriate to slam someones work in public. Most of us, whether we like to admit it or not, have some ego lurking in the background, and being called out in front of all of the others, regardless of whether the build deserved it or nor is unnecessary.

This is taught in Business 101, if you must "call out" a worker in your charge, you are better off taking them to another room, in private and then working out the problem.....co-workers don't need to hear the issue.

True, it is by attempting something new that we usually find failure, and the only way we grow as builders is by "courting failure" and trying new ideas and techniques.....so I would encourage all of us to expand our horizons and try something new, and if the end result is not a "best in show" winner, but the loser of the Westminster Dog Show, we don't want to discourage that person from attempting to grow. If you must criticize, do it in private (A PM).

[DRG]

All points on this subject are well taken and understood.

But by the same token what is the point of someone posting their work and asking for comments if no one is going to bother to reply.

I am aware that I'm not that good of a builder, yet. But I try, make mistakes and try again.

Are we really helping a person become a better builder by not replying.

I think not. but then that's just my opinion.

[whale392]

Well, I did reply once to a show-and-tell with constructive critisism (complete with pictoral examples of what I was trying to get across to the builder). Yeah.......didn't go over too well. Points were completely lost on the poster and it started a 'you hurt my feelings so I'm not going to be nice with anyone else who posts help' sentiment in the thread.

I don't take offense to what is said in my builds (or other replies) too often. If I ask for honest opinions, I want them and will take them into consideration. As to why I don't too often post a reply; simple: I do not possess large amounts of couthe and will tell you like it is. I also have not completed a build in............15 years? Maybe longer. What gives me the right to comment when all I have is 400 started projects in various stages of incomletion?

[runsw/scissors]

Maybe what we need is to take to heart what dear ol' mom used to say. "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

With that said, when someone is looking for comments, tact can and should be used. It's keeping with the concept of the golden rule, "do unto others...."

If I see someone ask for "Constuctive comments" I will tactfully give advice if I have something costructive to say. However I see no point in heaping praise on something not deserving. That would be dishonest.

Everyone wants to hear a well deserved " Attaboy " but that should not be the point behind our posting pictures of our builds. It should be to share with fellow modelers. Praise should not be expected.

If any of you wonder why you haven't seen any of my builds, it's because I haven't figured out how to yet. I'm still working on that.

[Dave Ambrose]

I think the key point is to realize that we're all on a journey. I wouldn't call any of my builds great. They aren't. I know that and can point to any number of flaws. Is it my best build to date? Probably. I try to push my envelope on every build.

There are so many ways to evaluate a model car. Craftsmanship is one dimension, design and artistic vision are another. Detailing is perhaps yet a third. Each of us will pick up on some aspect of a build that's good, and fixate on others that need improvement.

So, I'll be honest, I come around looking for someone to appreciate my work, because most of the people around me just don't seem to care as much as I do.

I daresay that most of us know where the flaws in our build are hiding. They're on the side we didn't post.

If I comment at all, it's to commend a model's strengths. A few kind words will go a long way towards keeping people building. I think that matters a more than the imperfections in a build.

[Jantrix]

  On 12/15/2010 at 6:42 AM, runsw/scissors said:

Maybe what we need is to take to heart what dear ol' mom used to say. "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Personally I think this is worse than slamming someones work. There's nothing worse than seeing 600 views and no replys. Trust me on this.

[David G.]

  On 12/15/2010 at 12:02 AM, Peter Lombardo said:

I have two "rules of thumb" that I try and follow when it comes to critiquing someone else's work here on this forum. One, I would only consider a , well lets just say, less than "at'a'boy comment if the poster specifically asks for up or down comments, and two, if the criticism is rather strong, but meant in a way that is trying to be helpful, I would rather do it in a PM post. I don't think it is appropriate to slam someones work in public. Most of us, whether we like to admit it or not, have some ego lurking in the background, and being called out in front of all of the others, regardless of whether the build deserved it or nor is unnecessary.

This is taught in Business 101, if you must "call out" a worker in your charge, you are better off taking them to another room, in private and then working out the problem.....co-workers don't need to hear the issue.

True, it is by attempting something new that we usually find failure, and the only way we grow as builders is by "courting failure" and trying new ideas and techniques.....so I would encourage all of us to expand our horizons and try something new, and if the end result is not a "best in show" winner, but the loser of the Westminster Dog Show, we don't want to discourage that person from attempting to grow. If you must criticize, do it in private (A PM).

Maybe it's just your choice of words, but "calling people out" and "slamming" their work is just what we're talking about not doing. We (most of us any way) want to offer constructive criticism to help people improve their skills, not punish them for failure.

For the most part, I no longer offer constructive criticism of any kind. There are some members of this community who are mature enough, or truly want enough to improve their skills. I will offer honest critiques of their work, otherwise, if I see a build posted with sloppy paint or wobbly wheels, I move on without comment, or try to find a good feature to comment on.

But I've never made an attempt to "slam" anybody or "call them out" on anything. If I ever felt that such was warranted, I agree with you, a PM should be used.

There's my input on our quarterly "Honest Critique vs Coddling Post" (no offense to OP )

Regards,

David G.

[2002p51]

  On 12/15/2010 at 12:02 AM, Peter Lombardo said:

I would rather do it in a PM post. . . . If you must criticize, do it in private (A PM).

Then none of the rest of us learn anything!

Honest, constructive criticism can not only benefit the builder of the model but also anybody else reading the thread who may be struggling with the same issues.

There is a vast pool of knowledge and experience in this community. It is of no use to anyone if it isn't shared.

[crazyjim]

I like posting my builds and getting comments - good and bad. When I respond to anothers build, I try to keep the comments positive. Every so often I'll make a negative comment, but it's not meant to be mean or vindictive. The purpose behind my comment(s) is to encourage fellow builders. If something is so obviously wrong that even I can spot it, I'll let the builder know.

If you've viewed my builds, you are aware that I'm not the greatest builder around - far from it. But I keep trying and learning from all of you and I thank you.

[cruz]

You guys can't build for $^%%!!!!! There, I said it!!!!

[MikeMc]

  On 12/14/2010 at 11:02 PM, Nick Winter said:

Thank You Dan, I appreciate that. I really do.

Nick

Thats because you've earned it...By trying and not crying

[Nick Winter]

  On 12/15/2010 at 2:52 PM, Stasch said:

Thats because you've earned it...By trying and not crying

Thanks Mike.

[KingSix]

I personally don't see anything wrong with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. It's a learning tool. As long as it doesn't get personal, or insulting it's perfectly acceptable.

people who can't handle constructive criticisms shouldn't post their work PUBLICLY ( this IS a public forum after all ) for those to see. Secondly, people that are so

thin skinned should probably pick up another hobby. I personally can accept criticisms, its no big thing, just as long as its RESPECTFUL.I know I'll never be a contest winner

but I also realize that means I have plenty of room for improvement. I love to learn, and one of the best ways to learn is by CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS ...

[Aaronw]

I won't post fluff praise, and I'm tired of having people get into a huff when suggestions or corrections are made, so I have gotten to the point where I will only comment under a few situations:

I know the person is a big boy and will respond appropriately to criticisms

The quality is of a high standard so it is safe to assume they can handle constructive comments (and in reality I'm usually asking these people questions). Amazingly I've been burned by #2 over very minor suggestions more than you would think, some people simply want to hear how great they are.

That is about it, too many people get worked up and see insult behind every word, so why bother.

If you want constructive criticism demonstrate that you can handle it, and make an effort to not find insult in comments regardless of the use of tact in those comments.

I'm not saying to smile and wave at trolls, but understand that some people don't know how to say something constructively, they just blurt it out, particularly on an impersonal communications method like the internet. Despite being blunt in many cases their comments are valid once you remove ego from it.

[Poncho-Power]

the problem with telling someone they need to try harder next time is that it is really hard to tell someone via forums without sounding like an a@@h@le, cause sometimes what is said can be mistaken for something else and i have seen it before where a comment was made on how to improve their skills was misread as "you suck...stop building models.....quit while your ahead" and said person actually quit building and never looked back.

[davyou5]

Complimenting.... a Conundrum.

Here's my thing, though I have had some compliments on past builds, I also know that they were not that great, and, that I am still in the learning process, and getting better, as I am always pushing myself to do better, and also becoming my own worst critic, while I agree with Constructive Criticism, I also see that a few positive comments are not going to hurt anyone as there are so many Excellent builders out here that Spur and Inspire, even me, to immitate or work up to an Excellent build. Now I can not speak for any and all that are beginners or just starting out again. But I know what I do, and I know what I want to do...... and it is to "Improve". So long as a Builder understands this, no one is in danger of continuing crappy builds.

Per the forum, Negative feedback on a build is going to hurt the ego, and words can be missinterpreted, which is why I support Constructive Criticism, at least you can tell someone what you see wrong, and tell them how to improve it, this can be a type of positive reenforcement without complimenting on something that looks bad.

[2002p51]

First of all, well said Bluesman Mark.

Now, I hesitate to even bring this up, but I just went from here to another thread and the very first thing I saw makes our point exactly.

In this case it's the photos that are bad. Maybe the models are too but the photos are so out of focus that you can't really tell anything about the models.

And what do you suppose is the very first response?

Yep, you're right; ". . .great job. . ."

[highway]

  On 12/16/2010 at 12:30 PM, Bluesman Mark said:

There's been a lot of mentioning of constructive ctiticism, which is a great thing if taken properly. The problem is so many misinterpret or fail to comprehend anything other than praise, thus a comment like, "Nice model, but you know if you trim the clear carrier film closer to the decal & use a setting solution on your decals, you can just about eliminate the line it leaves & your decals will look painted on." is often seen by the builder as "You suck at building models!!!! Your decals look like krap!!!! Why don't you give up now, you'll never be any good!!! My dog could build a better model!!!!", & everything gets blown out of proportion.

That is a good example Mark, but I think most of the problems with even the constructive criticism being taken as slamming the builder is some do not take the extra effort to add the solution in their reply, just point out the problem. A comment like the one you made above goes much farther than just a comment like "Nice paint job, but you could have done better on the decals." A comment like the example I made, in my opinion, just does not help the builder at all execpt make the builder think "OK, my paint work is nice, but my decals stink. It would be nice to know what I did so wrong other than no one likes them!"

[sjordan2]

  On 12/16/2010 at 7:30 PM, highway said:

That is a good example Mark, but I think most of the problems with even the constructive criticism being taken as slamming the builder is some do not take the extra effort to add the solution in their reply, just point out the problem. A comment like the one you made above goes much farther than just a comment like "Nice paint job, but you could have done better on the decals." A comment like the example I made, in my opinion, just does not help the builder at all execpt make the builder think "OK, my paint work is nice, but my decals stink. It would be nice to know what I did so wrong other than no one likes them!"

Exactly.

[Aaronw]

  On 12/16/2010 at 7:30 PM, highway said:

That is a good example Mark, but I think most of the problems with even the constructive criticism being taken as slamming the builder is some do not take the extra effort to add the solution in their reply, just point out the problem. A comment like the one you made above goes much farther than just a comment like "Nice paint job, but you could have done better on the decals." A comment like the example I made, in my opinion, just does not help the builder at all execpt make the builder think "OK, my paint work is nice, but my decals stink. It would be nice to know what I did so wrong other than no one likes them!"

Unfortunately I've seen Mark's comments in action far to often. One that comes to mind was a very nice diorama of a snow plow in action. The one issue was the snow was flat and the area the plow had gone through was just cut out like you would see with a shovel. Now snow plows don't work this way, you get a distinctive berm and a "bow wave" off of a moving plow, even a slow moving plow. The model was very well built, the diorama features were well thought out and implimented except for the bit I mentioned. I complemeted the builder, and suggested as a minor improvement that the snow be built up to the one side and that a small wave of snow be added coming off the plow.

The reply from the builder and a small group of followers was that I didn't know what I was talking about, the diorama was perfect as is. The builder wasn't quite rude in his reply, but obviously didn't take the comments as intended, several of the others were less than polite.

[sjordan2]

  On 12/16/2010 at 10:24 PM, Aaronw said:

Unfortunately I've seen Mark's comments in action far to often. One that comes to mind was a very nice diorama of a snow plow in action. The one issue was the snow was flat and the area the plow had gone through was just cut out like you would see with a shovel. Now snow plows don't work this way, you get a distinctive berm and a "bow wave" off of a moving plow, even a slow moving plow. The model was very well built, the diorama features were well thought out and implimented except for the bit I mentioned. I complemeted the builder, and suggested as a minor improvement that the snow be built up to the one side and that a small wave of snow be added coming off the plow.

The reply from the builder and a small group of followers was that I didn't know what I was talking about, the diorama was perfect as is. The builder wasn't quite rude in his reply, but obviously didn't take the comments as intended, several of the others were less than polite.

I don't get this. Was Mark "the builder" – you don't say – and what does this have to do with you calling him out?

[SuperStockAndy]

This is how I look at it.

I don't care if I get a little criticism. The main reason for this site is to post your model and learn tips and tricks from others. For example: I get a cooment like, "Got a little glue on the windshield", I'd be fine wiht it. However, If I got a commment like "Looks bad because you got glue all over the windshield", I wouldn't be too happy.

If it's good enough for me, and I get rude comments, I don't care what anyone else thinks. I really don't. It's MY model, so I can do whatever I want with it!

Edited December 17, 2010 by Android