A new "golden age" of modeling, from technology?

[Ace-Garageguy]

I posted some of this on another thread, but thinking it might get lost, I decided to open a new topic:

Technology MAY bring a new "golden age" for modeling in the near futire. The cost of 3D printing is plummeting as the tech matures, and it's now possible to get a desktop 3D printer for $200 a month or less. At one time, a machine that had that capability was $30,000. Google sketchup is almost free-CAD, and has an extension to convert files created in it to a format that will run 3D printing apps. There is a guy in my local club who is actually making use of this technology and producing some parts that were previously only available if one was a very accomplished scratchbuilder. (Interestingly, he's one of the oldest modelers in the club, but is embracing the new tech like a kid.)

What this means for any of us who choose to learn a few new skills is that ANY model can be produced with NO TOOLING WHATSOEVER. If you want a Borgward, go measure one carefully, or find blueprints, draw it up in sketchup, and have it 3D printed in wharever scale you want. Or do your own original design. There are companies that will "print" it from your files, for a reasonable fee. You can do this today, right now. The cost will continue to come down, and while not acessible to modelers of all income levels, a lot of current stuff isn't either.

There are a lot of talented designers who are content to work on their creations and build them in a virtual world. BUT, I think there will always be an appeal to have real, 3-dimensional models that can be touched. The available tech allows the best of both approaches to merge into a super-modeling capability.

So, who's up for moving the hobby into the 21st century?

Edited July 7, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy

[Lownslow]

ive been there, the technology is still a bit off cause i had to do a lot of cleaning to making it a castable product

[sjordan2]

I posted some of this on another thread, but thinking it might get lost, I decided to open a new topic:

Technology MAY bring a new "golden age" for modeling in the near futire. The cost of 3D printing is plummeting as the tech matures, and it's now possible to get a desktop 3D printer for $200 a month or less. At one time, a machine that had that capability was $30,000. Google sketchup is almost free-CAD, and has an extension to convert files created in it to a format that will run 3D printing apps. There is a guy in my local club who is actually making use of this technology and producing some parts that were previously only available if one was a very accomplished scratchbuilder. (Interestingly, he's one of the oldest modelers in the club, but is embracing the new tech like a kid.)

What this means for any of us who choose to learn a few new skills is that ANY model can be produced with NO TOOLING WHATSOEVER. If you want a Borgward, go measure one carefully, or find blueprints, draw it up in sketchup, and have it 3D printed in wharever scale you want. Or do your own original design. There are companies that will "print" it from your files, for a reasonable fee. You can do this today, right now. The cost will continue to come down, and while not acessible to modelers of all income levels, a lot of current stuff isn't either.

There are a lot of talented designers who are content to work on their creations and build them in a virtual world. BUT, I think there will always be an appeal to have real, 3-dimensional models that can be touched. The available tech allows the best of both approaches to merge into a super-modeling capability.

So, who's up for moving the hobby into the 21st century?

What car manufacturers besides the exotics makers are going to create products that anyone wants to build as a scale model? There's got to be more to the hobby for the next generation than new Mustangs, Camaros and a teeny sampling of Mopars, regardless of what the technology makes possible.

Edited July 7, 2012 by sjordan2

[bbowser]

It sounds pretty exciting to me. Subject matter aside, there are a ton of possibilities for parts or whole kits. I've just started using sketchup for a kitchen remodel project and if I can do it, it's in anyone's grasp.

[old-hermit]

3-D tech is a boon for the hobby and resin casters already. You can create a file, have it printed, use it for a master, cast it and sell copies. The sales of the castings can offset any up front costs. Also if you wanted a 1956 Landyacht-o-saurus you could have it. The posibilities are endless. I've wanted a '28 - '32 sedan in 1/8th scale since I got back into the hobby and with 3-D tech I now have two in progress.

[Fat Brian]

I am incredibly excited about 3d printing. Within five years most of us will be able to print our own kits at home. Imagine, instead of trading parts by mail or ordering online we could trade 3d files by email in minutes or buy that new kit and print it right in your house. No more buying a whole kit for the engine or wheels or messy resin casting, just print what you need. Your stash will be as much on a hard drive as in your spare room or basement. You want to modify a kit, chop the top, flare the fenders, tub it out? Do it in the computer and print it out perfect and ready to go. The possibilities are literally endless.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Fat Brian

[Ace-Garageguy]

Quoting old-hermit: "3-D tech is a boon for the hobby and resin casters already. You can create a file, have it printed, use it for a master, cast it and sell copies. The sales of the castings can offset any up front costs."

Indeed, but with the price of 3D printing continuing to fall and the resolution increasing, it won't be long before "casting" in resin just isn't necessary. Models could be printed to order....again, no tooling cost is the attraction here. There is already a company making a D-Jag and an Aston Martin in 1/24 this way, and the costs are in line with what you'd pay for a traditional cast-resin kit. Some large-scale automotive and aircraft engines are also available, printed-to-order.

It would eliminate inventory as well...all you need is a drum of goo. No unsold inventory either, when the marketing department screws up. If it just didn't get made, it doesn't have to be disposed of at a loss when it doesn't sell in the predicted numbers. Honestly, if I were Revell and had the kind of lead-times they're facing now, I'd be seriously investigating this tech in order to survive long-term.

If you look at the increase in home computing power versus the cost over the past few years, and extrapolate the probable increase in 3D printing power versus cost over the next ten years, say, I think it's quite feasible to think of having a printer on one's hobby bench, and ordering up a print-to-order model on the spot, all for costs comparable to what we pay now for an injection-molded model plus shipping,

Edited July 8, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

I am incredibly excited about 3d printing. Within five years most of us will be able to print our own kits at home. Imagine, instead of trading parts by mail or ordering online we could trade 3d files by email in minutes or buy that new kit and print it right in your house. No more buying a whole kit for the engine or wheels or messy resin casting, just print what you need. Your stash will be as much on a hard drive as in your spare room or basement. You want to modify a kit, chop the top, flare the fenders, tub it out? Do it in the computer and print it out perfect and ready to go. The possibilities are literally endless.

Yup, exactly what I've been getting at. And instead of investing bazillions making injection-molding tools, let's say Revell invests instead in measuring and converting to digital files extremely accurate images of whatever car is desired. No Chinese outsourcing, either.

[Johnny K]

I've just started using sketchup for a kitchen remodel project and if I can do it, it's in anyone's grasp.

Thanks for that. Hadn't heard of it, but just checked it out and downloaded. Looking forward to trying it.

[hooknladderno1]

I too have to agree! Some of us are NOT sculpturably gifted, and all of the templates, sheet plastic, putty and PRACTICE in the world are not going to magically make us such. I have been building for 30 years, and this is the area that has held me back. I would simply like to take advantage of the CNC technology to be able to cut out two identical side panels for my model fire apparatus. I have still not been able to wrap my mind around the ability to produce large scale parts(cabs, fenders, etc) out of 3-D drawings and printer. It is a wonderful possibility! While speaking of technology, finally, it is sad that the ALPS printer technology was never considered for hobby industry. For those not familiar with the ALPS saga, 15 to 20 years ago, it was thought to be the latest and greatest photo printing technology! It contained cartridges similar to those used as correction ribbons on typerwriters. The ALPS even allowed the printing of white, metallic gold and silver.

For modelers and railroaders, this was FANTASTIC!!! Newer machines could even print chrome silver(think scripts) and foils. Sadly, the miracle of the ALPS was quickly eclipsed by the advent of "ink jet" technology. Great for the rest of the world, bad for us modelers. Production of the machines has ceased, and supplies are begining to become scarce and at a premium price. Repair service on these machines is almost non-exstistant. I will cease my rant here, as I am in the process of moving, and haven't touched a model in about 6 weeks(withdrawl)... My "modelcave" is not yet packed, and I anticipate having to pack it as is, and sort it out when I get settled. Look forward to reading what is on others minds regarding the subject.

[philo426]

Picture this;you wake up one mornin

g and decide you want a '36 Delage teardrop coupe.You just find it on the web download the file to your 3d printer and you are good to go!

[old-hermit]

Picture this;you wake up one morning and decide you want a '36 Delage teardrop coupe.You just find it on the web download the file to your 3d printer and you are good to go!

The only problem with that is most 3-D files are made for gaming and need to be modified for printing.

[Fat Brian]

The only problem with that is most 3-D files are made for gaming and need to be modified for printing.

I hope as these machines become more common there would begin to be appropriate files available online. I'm sure the models have to be different from a game style model but how different and in what ways are still not widely known right now.

[Ace-Garageguy]

That's kinda what I was getting at about learning new skills.....like modifying illustrations and photographs into 3-view drawings, and then on to printable formats. It's a jell of a lot easier to manipulate an image in a computer (no sculptural ability and tool-using eye-hand coordination necessary) than it is to scratchbuild, eh?

[Fat Brian]

I have been building 3d models for games for almost a decade now, hopefully most of the skills will be transferable. I built this a year or so ago, I would love to print it one day.

[Jantrix]

But what sort of plastic do these things use? Will they take paint/chrome well?

[peter31a]

I'm sorry but I disagree about the no "tool using hand-eye coordination necessary" statement. You still have to have good eye hand coordination to get computer images to do what you want. I can't draw anything but disfigured stick men on paper and I can't even achieve that much in paint or any other image program I've seen. The only way this stuff would work for a lot of us would be for the kit (for lack of a better word) be available as a file that could be sent directly to the printer without user manipulation necessary.

[my66s55]

Rob, the current machines I have seen use filiment made of ABS or PLA plastic. ABS is a strong plastic that is vaccuformed for thing like the interior parts for a 1:1 vehicle. PLA is a corn based substitute for polystyrene.

[Fat Brian]

I'm sorry but I disagree about the no "tool using hand-eye coordination necessary" statement. You still have to have good eye hand coordination to get computer images to do what you want. I can't draw anything but disfigured stick men on paper and I can't even achieve that much in paint or any other image program I've seen. The only way this stuff would work for a lot of us would be for the kit (for lack of a better word) be available as a file that could be sent directly to the printer without user manipulation necessary.

I can't draw or anything either but for making 3d models that isn't neccessary, the computer makes everything straight. You start with a 3 dimensional space with an X,Y, and Z axis and the space is measured in increments that are fractions of a foot. You then plot out your design and connect the points to make visible faces. Here is a different pic showing the grid in the background, you can even change the background to an image of what you are building so you can follow it as a guide.

[my66s55]

I think what Brian is trying to show you is the ease of using others drawings, or in my case, pictures and placing them into the background and using them as a guide to create whats called a mesh to make it 3d. I took this past week to teach myself to use Blender. Here is a 4 view example of my file. I'm just starting to apply the mesh on the center of the body.

[Fat Brian]

Umm forgive my inexperience in this whole area but although all this tech sound's easy enough aren't we forgetting something?.... Won't the car companies have a say in all this, as far as copyrighting their products? Isn't this the excuse/reason we're given by kit manufacturers as to why the prices of kits go up etc??

I'd really like to know whether this would be a problem?

Cheers Dan

It really just depends on if there is money being made or not. I made the yellow truck a few years back and put it online for free and so far Ford hasn't come to break my legs. The video game community has built up an honor system of sharing free models and giving credit where credit is due, it will be interesting to see if the model community can do the same. I imagine if someone intends to profit from a model that licsensing would be an issue, like if Revell wants to make a model to sell online, but as long as you give it away for free they can't say a whole lot.

[Ace-Garageguy]

There are without a doubt some copyright issues, and they will be determined by things like specific subject matter and whether it's become public domain. I would be interested to know if Modelhaus, for example, is forced to pay licensing on the representations of older Big 3 American cars they produce. No one can stop you from scratch-building a perfect model of a brand new whatever for your own enjoyment, so it follows that no one can stop you from creating digital files to run a 3D printer, for your own enjoyment. It's when you go to make multiple copies for sale that the licensing issues come up, as Brian said, BUT giving away free copies would probably violate copyright law. Technology is changing the entire landscape of intellectual property ownership and how it's interpreted everywhere.

As far as the eye-hand skills go, I never meant to imply it doesn't take a lot of skill to build something well in a virtual environment, but it's an entirely DIFFERENT skillset than traditional modelers use. At one time I made a pretty good living doing prototyping for industry. I've been pretty well replaced by computer programmers and machines, and most of the people I've talked to in the new version of the industry admit cheerfully that they couldn't do what I used to do by hand, period. I can't do what they do, either. Yet.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy

[MsDano85gt]

How did you even know about a borgward ?? Lol

[crazyjim]

Maybe these 3D printers will become so inexpensive that instead of buying a kit, you purchase a computer file and print the kit at home.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Maybe these 3D printers will become so inexpensive that instead of buying a kit, you purchase a computer file and print the kit at home.

Yes, that's part of what I was getting at too. Right now you can get a desktop unit for less than $200 / month, but only a few years ago, they were $30,000 for a machine that would do the same thing. I can easily imagine the cost coming down to the level of a high-end personal computer. Depending on the cost of the files, the entire annual outlay for models could conceiveably be in line with what some of us are paying now for styrene and shipping.