1/25 Revell '70 Plymouth HEMI 'Cuda 2'n1

[Drake69]

And I don't have a problem with that. It just looks like instead of a nice comfortable discussion on "what might be coming our way" here, it looks like people are preparing to go to war over nitpicking a model kit that we all have been screaming for for YEARS. I mean, let's face it. The Snap kit is a snap kit, no real detail, the '71 Cuda is the wrong size, slightly disproportioned, front lip-cut, etc, etc, etc... And the AAR Cuda?

A mashed up mess of a Cuda/Challenger hybrid.

So, with that being said, THANK YOU REVELL for finally giving us something we want!

[Brett Barrow]

I'm trying to make sure I understand what you're saying since I only have a vague idea as to how the whole mock-up / test shot / release thing works. Feel free to correct anything I've misunderstood.

About 6 months ago we saw pics of what looked to be a complete kit (parts on sprues) of this 'Cuda. If it made it to that point, it's already been tooled, correct? I assume that once the tooling process has been completed, there won't be any opportunity to fix any problem areas (I've heard the Mopar guys say the Raisin Bran (their term) two-scoop hood is just...off.

Second, if the kit is done, why are we having to wait till November/whatever to get it?

Why does it take so long? Well, for one thing, test shots come from the tooling house where the tool makers actually physically cut the molds, they'll have an injection-molding machine there (usually a small, run-down, old one) where they can put a mold into, run a handful and see how it comes out. Once it's been signed off on and deemed ready for production, usually after 3 or 4 rounds of test shots and revisions, the molds will move to a facility where they do large-scale production molding (typically on much bigger, much faster, better maintained, and newer equipment), but you have to go to the back of the line and wait for all the car stereo knobs, lap top shells, cell phone cases, etc... that are in line in front of you to get produced. Sometimes the facilities are in the same complex, sometimes the same town, maybe even the same building, sometimes they're in altogether different countries, but regardless - when your stuff is ready for production, you're put at the back of the line and have to wait your turn. And it seems like we're pretty close to reaching a tipping point where it'll be more profitable to ship the tooling to the US and run the production molding here. You probably won't see actual tooling back in the US for a while, it's been gone for a generation or two, and there's not very many people here that are left that know how to do it, and they'd be up against a pretty steep learning curve with modern techniques. The Chinese, like it or not, are pretty good at it.

Then there's box art and decal artwork and licensing approval, etc... all the stuff that's totally unrelated to the production of the plastic parts that has to get done, boxes, decals, and instruction sheets have to get printed, then everything has to get bagged and boxed... It's at least a 2-year process from green-lighting a project to final kit on store shelves, and that's if everything goes absolutely 100% smoothly. Most companies (the upstarts are usually a little more forthcoming with info during the start of a project) don't even reveal their plans to the public until the process is well underway. Tamiya is probably most notorious for keeping a tight lid on future releases, by the time the public knows about a kit of theirs, it's usually in full production and only a month or two away from release. I'd say Revell is somewhere kinda in the middle, usually they officially announce a kit within a year or so of when it'll hit store shelves, which means they've been working on it for at least a year already, and it's possible the designer (which a lot of the time are freelancers under contract, not full-time employees) would have also spent several months working on the first round of drawings and photo studies that were used to create the master patterns, which are what are then used to make the molds (though the trend in the industry is moving away from physical pattern models and right into 3D computer designs that go straight into the cutting of molds, with STL printed mockups used to visually check the process along the way, but I think that would depend on the design team and what medium they feel comfortable working in). And all that time you have probably 10 or 12 other projects to keep going back and forth on. They've got something to keep them busy at all times.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[martinfan5]

I get that some people like Jonathan and James prefer Japanese kits to American kits, and having built some Tamiya kits myself, I understand why-- they're nice kits. That said, I'm not sure why there's this prevalent attitude that if Tamiya, Fujimi, and/or Aoshima are doing something, why can't Revell, Moebius, and Galaxie Limited do it, too? They are all different businesses, run differently, and Tamiya's typical customer is not the same as Revell's, so they make products marketed toward the people who want to but them, and yes, that means under $30 for Revell customers. Revell's customers don't want to pay an extra $2.95 per kit to have a p/e grille, nameplates, and seat belt buckles. Tamiya's customers do, and will, so I don't think we'd find a ton of disagreement that Revell's and Tamiya's customers aren't exactly the same. Sure, there's some overlap (and again, Jon and James are good examples of members here who buy both), but I bet the vast majority of members here have NEVER purchased a Tamiya, Fujimi, or Aoshima kit in their lifetime, and some never will. I bet the same goes for builders in Japan, too, who never have and never will purchase a Revell, Moebuis, nor Lindberg kit.

Casey, I cant speak for James, but I know we both like a lot of the subjects that the Japanese companys do, but for me, one of the biggest reason I do buy a lot of Japanese kits is, for the most the part, they do subjects that are with in 30 years old (my era if you will), vs Revell/Round2 with mostly older subjects .

As for the P/E issues, I probably wouldn't spend the extra on a kit if it had it, I really dont like P/E all that much, at the most, I like P/E brake rotors and thats about it, maybe grills to.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Which one? Or all? The width-of-an-Xacto-razor-saw sectioning is going to be a bit tricky, though.

Quite right. 'Scuse me. THOSE are ALL what I plan to do; first part's already in execution, natch.

And of course, in the very process of sawing, that Xacto blade will actually remove its own width of plastic - if it comes to that...

[CJ1971]

Oct 2012 to Nov 2013 is 4 years on what planet exactly?!?!

16 pages on a kit that's got another 6 months before anyone holds one in their hands, 3/4ths of the posters can't tell a 70 Cuda from a 71 Cuda...

I'm done with this, see y'all when the plastic hits the shelves. Peace out.

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it was mentioned by the author, that he, along with many others, including Revell, had been secretly working on this "new" version 2-2-5yrs before they came out ( Revell ) with their test bodies/announcement. When you add that time to Oct' 2012 & the further amount of time before we will actually get the kit ( if it IS released around Nov' this year, that would bring the total amount of time Revell had spent developing this kit, to close to 4yrs. So yes, I believe that's 4yrs or close enought to it, on this Planet.

As for the PE/Tailight issue... Well I mentioned that because it seemed like a problem solver, to the many people who've mentioned that actual problem with the "test-shot" pics of the tailights.

Cliff

[Chuck Kourouklis]

And I don't have a problem with that. It just looks like instead of a nice comfortable discussion on "what might be coming our way" here, it looks like people are preparing to go to war over nitpicking a model kit that we all have been screaming for for YEARS. I mean, let's face it. The Snap kit is a snap kit, no real detail, the '71 Cuda is the wrong size, slightly disproportioned, front lip-cut, etc, etc, etc... And the AAR Cuda?

A mashed up mess of a Cuda/Challenger hybrid.

So, with that being said, THANK YOU REVELL for finally giving us something we want!

Darn straight people have wanted this for years, and yeah, Revell's due some appreciation at least for the attempt. And absolutely, this one is far superior to any they've done before.

But it's still got visible deviations, and THAT is what starts the discussion veering away from nice and comfortable. What are people supposed to do when they see those problems? Suppress themselves in the name of some arbitrary notion of decorum?

And then you've got a group who have this curious compulsion to defend their notion of Revell's honor, like some sort of self-appointed hall monitors. Those are the ones who first resort to personal attacks, and THAT's where the "war" starts.

It's a pattern as old as online discussion itself. Wouldn't blame you if you still had a headache - whenever I get one, I find it helpful to remember nobody's forcing me to read these things.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Chuck Kourouklis

[Chuck Kourouklis]

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it was mentioned by the author, that he, along with many others, including Revell, had been secretly working on this "new" version 2-2-5yrs before they came out ( Revell ) with their test bodies/announcement. When you add that time to Oct' 2012 & the further amount of time before we will actually get the kit ( if it IS released around Nov' this year, that would bring the total amount of time Revell had spent developing this kit, to close to 4yrs. So yes, I believe that's 4yrs or close enought to it, on this Planet...

Cliff

Yeah, that's kinda what I thought you meant - but I didn't wanna put words in your mouth.

[martinfan5]

, I find it helpful to remember

Its a hobby

[Brett Barrow]

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it was mentioned by the author, that he, along with many others, including Revell, had been secretly working on this "new" version 2-2-5yrs before they came out ( Revell ) with their test bodies/announcement. When you add that time to Oct' 2012 & the further amount of time before we will actually get the kit ( if it IS released around Nov' this year, that would bring the total amount of time Revell had spent developing this kit, to close to 4yrs. So yes, I believe that's 4yrs or close enought to it, on this Planet.

As for the PE/Tailight issue... Well I mentioned that because it seemed like a problem solver, to the many people who've mentioned that actual problem with the "test-shot" pics of the tailights.

Cliff

4 years might be about right, now that I think about it. That would be right about the time the AAR Cuda hit. Think that might have convinced them that starting from scratch would be a good idea.

I thought you were saying it had been 4 years from the 2012 iHobby announcement to now.

If it comes down do it, I could probably find out exactly when Mr Mueller* first started in on the design work... I don't know him personally, but I know someone who does.

edit - *This might not be a Meuller design, now that I think about it. Thought it was, but re-reading some of the early posts makes me think it's not. Have to check. Know he did the 57 Ford, though...

Edited April 26, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[niteowl7710]

I get that some people like Jonathan and James prefer Japanese kits to American kits, and having built some Tamiya kits myself, I understand why-- they're nice kits. That said, I'm not sure why there's this prevalent attitude that if Tamiya, Fujimi, and/or Aoshima are doing something, why can't Revell, Moebius, and Galaxie Limited do it, too? They are all different businesses, run differently, and Tamiya's typical customer is not the same as Revell's, so they make products marketed toward the people who want to but them, and yes, that means under $30 for Revell customers. Revell's customers don't want to pay an extra $2.95 per kit to have a p/e grille, nameplates, and seat belt buckles. Tamiya's customers do, and will, so I don't think we'd find a ton of disagreement that Revell's and Tamiya's customers aren't exactly the same. Sure, there's some overlap (and again, Jon and James are good examples of members here who buy both), but I bet the vast majority of members here have NEVER purchased a Tamiya, Fujimi, or Aoshima kit in their lifetime, and some never will. I bet the same goes for builders in Japan, too, who never have and never will purchase a Revell, Moebuis, nor Lindberg kit.

I haven't even been signed in here or looked at this place in a blissful week of headache & bickeringfree web-surfing, and then have it pointed out someone is invoking my name to make a lame argument.

I get the cost thing, there are people on non-existent budgets, fixed incomes, retired or unemployed. But for the rest of the people here, they're cheap. Not frugal...CHEAP! Revell could make the most perfect Cuda and include P/E in it, and charge $10 and there would still be 8 dozen people here complaining it's not $9.99. It goes hand in hand with the idea that some sort of Mixed Martial Arts competition is desirable. Rather than pay for a better kit, they'd rather go 3 rounds in the Octagon with their model kits. It's not a matter of the hack "kit assembler" vs. "model builder" snoozefest, but why even if you were going to modify, plumb, and detail out a model kit do some people insist that the experience should be as taxing and painful as possible?

I purchase a lot of Tamiya, Aoshima, Fujimi & Revell AG kits not only because (at least the first two on that list) are better models in quality & engineering, leading to a much more enjoyable building experience. But because of the subject matter. I'd take 5 Halo/Supercar kits for every '50 Olds I'd buy...

Casey you might be surprised how many Revell Muscle Car kits are currently on "Order Stop" on HobbyLink Japan. Meaning they have more pre-orders than they expect to be able to fill from what Revell has promised to send them. I don't know where this fallacy comes from that Japanese don't build American - any more or any less than Americans want no part of Japanese subject matter. I you look at photos from the major model shows there you would see that the American cars are at least as prominent as the JDM stuff. In the process they're over-paying for Revell & Round 2 kits - the exchange rate & import costs work in reverse (heck the Moebius truck kits work out to nearly $150US) and not being scale or subject matter bigots along the way. The vast majority of people here (in addition to being cheap) are also old - or as Brett proves young - codgers that believe anything manufactured after 1971 isn't fit to be licensed as use as a motor vehicle, making the majority of the catalogs at the "Big 3" Japanese companies as appealing to some here as self-imposed exploratory rectal surgery with a spork.

I had to see exactly why this thread was "starred" to me, as I didn't remember commenting on it. Turns out it was a one-liner about Tower Hobbies release date for this kit. Because frankly if you called me on Halloween Night and told me a giant wave had washed the entire container of Cudas into the South China Sea a few minutes after a giant sink hole ate the injection molding machine holding the molds to this kit...I.COULD.NOT.CARE.LESS.

This is one of those kits you couldn't pay me to build, zero appeal to me for some reason, and what's more it now appears that Revell has had THREE swings and nearly 4 YEARS to make this one right and...well look at that it's still wrong. Is it more right that the AAR, sure it'd be hard not to be. Is it actually right...No. I'd still prefer Revell sell 50,000 units of it to the people who couldn't care if it was a hunk of plywood and an orbital sander in the box however, so they can fund something I'd actually purchase.

[Casey]

Maybe a p/e taillight bezel would work, if the part consisted only of the raised portion which protrudes through/past/beyond the tail panel, as seen here:

I still think the curvature at the bottom of each bezel would be the most challenging aspect to do correctly is a p/e part was provided, though.

Maybe the wheel lip moldings had yet to be fine tuned on the test shot, too? Or they could just be too thick.

One other thing I wanted to note is the built test shot models I looked at held, and photographed at two weeks ago at the Milwaukee NNL appeared to be the same models which debuted at NNL Toledo in October 2012. The '49 Mercury Woodie looked a bit rough had been handled a lot, so considering these test shot models are at least seven months old and several people have mentioned and/or told this kit won't debut until November, that at least gives me the chance to be optimistic that the time between October 2012 and October 2013 will have been put to use correcting some aspects of this kit.

[gtx6970]

On the 1/1 the chrome bezel is almost same height, maybe even slightly below the surface of the black painted area

On a model it would be even with the surface of the body .

IMO, the only way to do it is either chrome the bezel and use a clear paint to do the tail lights and back up lamp lenses ( my preference)

Or mold the lenses red and with a silver sharpie go over the edges of the bezel

If someone wants to see any angles on a 1970 Cuda tail light I have a car in the shop I can take any angle wanted.

ps, this is an original sheetmetal car as well, so I might measure body panels / lines

Edited April 26, 2013 by gtx6970

[CJ1971]

What about metal-transfer? As found in the Tamiya Aston Martin kit, as well as other Tamiya/Revell G kits?? They could do the job?

Cliff

[amc36077]

whats with the hood it looks horrible thats revell for ya.well at least its not based on the 70 challenger t/a like the revell 70 aar cuda was both the 90s kit and the 2000s kit was.

Edited August 24, 2013 by amc36077

[thatz4u]

NEWS FLASH!!! this just in....release date is sometime in the time period of October to December.

Regards,

Revell Inc.

Consumer Service

[sak]

You guys want a accurate replica? Ask revell to make it 14 or so feet longer, about 3,000 pounds heavier, and make it out of real metal. And while you at it, ask for a real working motor feature. As for me I like it just the way it is.

[amc36077]

the only think i meant that revell let model builders down so long its just a give in. they try god bless them but i bought 2 different versions of the 70 aar cuda and both of them were flawed like u wouldn't believe if your going to make a kit you would think that they would take their time to get it right. i remember when they came out with the pro modeler 1969 charger and the body was horrible people who spend their hard earned money should get their moneys worth not some sub par kit,thats all i said i spent a lot of money on revell kits just to be disappointed a lot but they have made so good kits also with revell its a hit or miss with buying their kits and it should not be. they should have people making sure the kits are as close to a 1 to1 car as possible.if your going to spend almost 30 dollars on a kit it should be a kit worth buying sorry for whining so long but when i spent over hundreds of dollars over the years i think people in the modeling community get a good quality kit i think we deserve it.

Edited October 4, 2013 by amc36077

[johnbuzzed]

Mark, Revell made up for that Charger kit by sending out new bodies or, in some instances, entire kits with new bodies. But you are right- the manufacturers should do their homework and do their very best to get things right the first time, especially when actual, full-sized reference material is available.

[Casey]

Here are the newest pics of both versions built and displayed at the 2014 Toledo NNL, courtesy of Steve Goldman:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80054&p=1023362

Tower Hobbies has it listed at $24.95 and due in late November, so I wouldn't expect it before then.

[ZTony8]

Ed Sexton mentioned in Sylvania last weekend that the release date is this November.

I thought the optional grille didn't look so great.Kinda like a piece of ridged Evergreen or Plastruct molded in the shape of the grille opening.Other than that,it looks like a winner of a kit!

[CJ1971]

Looks like a winner to me.... Can't wait for this! I'm thinking at least a dozen or so.... ;-)

Cheers Cliff

[sfhess]

I have seen and handled some test shots of this kit. There is a lot of cool stuff in the kit and many nice details. A winner in my book.

[gtx6970]

Looks like a winner to me.... Can't wait for this! I'm thinking at least a dozen or so.... ;-)

Cheers Cliff

I can see the aftermkt stepping up to do multiple decals sheets of vintage race cars for this kit ( hint hint )

I am thinking AT LEAST a dozen , and thats on top of the 2 builtup original MPC versions I have in the stash

[Luc Janssens]

I'll ask Sinterklaas for one ....I've been a good boy

[futurattraction]

I'm curious if anybody here believes this new kit will supercede the original MPC kits for desirability. I'm just curious whether it is worth trying to track down a 1970 MPC body that could be cast in resin. Or has that ship already sailed? Any opinions?