3D Printing....Instant Model update

[Rob Hall]

As with any technology, over time it's going to get more powerful, easier to use, and cheaper. Going to be interesting to see where 3D Printing is 5 years from now...

[Harry P.]

Let's keep the personal sniping off the forum.

If any of you want to get into a p*****g contest, do it via personal email or PM. The rest of us really don't need to be (or want to be) part of it.

[Harry P.]

I said this a long time ago on a similar thread, but I'll say it again. The day that a 3-D printer is as common as a phone or a toaster is not far off, and most modelers will have one. It's the future of scale modeling. We'll either be vreating kits or parts based on our own "home-made" input, or we'll be buying files made professionally and sold by the traditional kit manufacturers or other sources.

I have no doubt that 3-D printing is going to completely reshape the process of how a model kit is created. The only question is how soon it will become the norm and not the exception. My money is on sooner rather than later.

[Foxer]

I said this a long time ago on a similar thread, but I'll say it again. The day that a 3-D printer is as common as a phone or a toaster is not far off, and most modelers will have one. It's the future of scale modeling. We'll either be vreating kits or parts based on our own "home-made" input, or we'll be buying files made professionally and sold by the traditional kit manufacturers or other sources.

I'm gonna get my 3D file of Sofia Vergara in shape then! ... I'm just undecided about the pose.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Foxer

[Harry P.]

I'm gonna get my 3D file of Sofia Vergara in shape then! ... I'm just undecided about the pose.

Careful! You don't want to blow a fuse on your printer!

[Danno]

I'm gonna get my 3D file of Sofia Vergara in shape then! ... I'm just undecided about the pose.

But ... can you afford enough material?

{Just like the real thing ... it always boils down to ~ can you really afford it?}

[1930fordpickup]

I sanded and painted rapid prototype parts in 1997 folks . Yes they were related to the job I have , not hobby related . Some were sample parts some were patterns for castings .

It is not new just getting cheaper , the parts I purchased from TDR Innovations are much better than the parts from work . Just remember the parts from work were from over 11 years ago.

I feel that niteowl7710 has a good feel for what is going to happen.

[shucky]

Really? Many modelers cannot even take a clear photo and you think they will save time by sitting in front of a computer designing digital model car parts?

And a judge should take into consideration what is resin, 3d printed, and scratch built along with the overall quality of a build.

If this technology were readily available, there would be no need to scratch-build parts. Yeah, you might get a warm and fuzzy, "I built that there dinglewhopper" feeling for building it yourself, but I look at it this way. It already takes me far to long to build a model. If I can shave a couple of hours by 3d printing my parts instead of scratching them, guess what I'm going to do?

And I think Pat has a point. Not everyone would have a NEED for a 3d printer in there home. So I don't see that Xerox will be rushing to get this to market.

As for contest, we can already get nearly any part resin cast by somebody, really what is the difference? Only the skills of the guy/gal building the model. As it should be.

[Casey]

Really? Many modelers cannot even take a clear photo and you think they will save time by sitting in front of a computer designing digital model car parts?

I tend to agree. Just because the printer and software is available, doesn't automatically mean buyers will be able to print top quality stuff. IF a customer bought a top of the line printer and the best software, containing the most detailed files (most detailed being something like an Aurora Racing scenes 417 Donovan engine, compared to, say, a Palmer '71 Cuda), and bout the best printing medium and materials, then, yes, I would agree the end product they print will be top quality. I doubt most people will ever do that, however, and therein lies my skepticism.

I won't deny 3D printing technology is going to have a significant impact of our hobby, but I'm still skeptical as to how much of an impact it will have. For new kits, it will have a definite impact, but what about older kits made via injection molding (IM)? If we consider the 1958 SMP/AMT promos/models to be the "start" of mass-produced IM models, that's 44 years of existing kits/tooling/models-- are those all going to be converted to 3D files? And how will that be done? That's literally thousands of models without any existing 3D data, so traditional IM models aren't going anywhere.

Now, concerning new kits, 3D tech and printing makes a lot of sense, and I like a lot of James' ideas and thoughts, but still have to wonder if there won't be problems, or more specifically, will we have the same complaints we have now with IM kits? Let's use Revell's and AMT's '67 Chevelle SS kits as the example. One person thinks the trunk lip molding is off slightly, another thinks the rear window is a bit too small, and the roof butresses taper off too quickly, and the...you get the point. Will we sit here in ten years and say "Don't buy Company ABC's Tucker Torpedo 3D file, it's junk! The body proportions are all messed up when you print it out, and the cyclops headlight is too small, the hood peak too wide", and so on. Your answer is probably "Company ABC will go back and fix the software to correct the inaccuracies, just like Revell fixed the roof issue on the Pro Modeler '69 Charger R/T kit in 1996". Yes, they might, and even if they don't, we can fix the inaccuracies or kitbash as necessary, right? Well, then we're right back to where we were with IM kits, and 3D printing hasn't improved upon the old way of doing things when we look at the quality of the end product.

I really don't see the future being all that different from what we have available now in terms of kit selection to be honest, and see the 3D model printing marker being much like the model aftermarket is now. How many people buy a resin casting set and think "I can do this", only to become dejected when realizing it's not as simple as it seemed? I don't see more than a handful of us (using MCM forum members as the "group" for this example) ever being able to write/create/modify 3D files, much in the same way that very few of us can machine a Halibrand Sprint wheel out of an aluminum billet, create a '74 Chevelle body, or print an 8.5" x 11" decal sheet with metallic colors. The technology alone isn't going to be the magic elixir which makes all our dreams come true. Skill and craftsmanship used to create the "master" (in this case the software) will still trump the hardware, and those of us (myself included) who aren't fluent in the 3D software will be dependent upon those who are, and we have to hope whoever creates (or modifies) the software has an eye for quality and getting the details correct on each and every model that is created. Will that happen? I don't know. I hope it does, but I like to think I'm realistic enough to know of probably won't.

And what about older, existing kits? Will Revell scrap the molds for the '69 Dodge Dart GT-S when they can 3D scan a 1:1 car, convert the data to a file, and allow the end user print it out? What happens when Joe Schmoe buy a cheap Lexmark 3D printer, gets a poor quality model from it, and swears off Revell 3D models forever? At least with IM tech, Revell can control the quality of the end product for the most part, but they can never say that with 3D printing, as quality will be limited by the hardware the end user is running.

Will that 3D printed Round2 '61 Ranchero still have the same "feel" as an original AMT '61 Ranchero kit? I'm not out to make 3D models as some sterile, untouched-by-humans product, but emotion can have a pretty big effect on us and on what we buy/build, and the human element of certain models designs (and imperfections) is something to be considered.

The other issue I forsee (and I think I touched upon this somewhere above in my rambling ) is availability. Fred wants a '77 Olds Cutlas 442 hardtop with the 5-speed manual trans, the- wait. Does anyone offer the 3D software to print out such a car? Kitbashing is the answer, right? Wait, then I need to buy two, three or four 3D files to print out all the parts I need? Or does Revell allow me to buy and print out the individual parts I need from their various 3D kits?

I don't think there are any easy answers nor simple solutions when it comes to 3D printing technology. I agree it's coming, and within the next decade (probably less), but I think it may end up being one of those "solutions" which ends up creating more "problems". They may just end up being good problems to have.

[martinfan5]

I think we are all having a case of putting the gas engine before the gas (cart before the horse), no one knows the future of 3D printing and its impact on the hobby will be, we are going to find out at the same time when it happens.

All this going back and fourth about everything is pointless, though some very good points have been made so far.

3D printing is here and advancing , its going to impact the hobby, but those are the only facts we know a the moment

I am looking forward to see how 3D printing is going to impact the hobby, so lets all hurry and wait to see what happens

[Ace-Garageguy]

Anybody who wants to stay current with the reality of this tech need only click here to start......

http://www.shapeways.com/blog/

[shucky]

Casey, well said.

[Harry P.]

Casey, the point of 3D printing is not that the kit manufacturers will recreate all their old tooling into 3D files somehow. That's just as unlikely as them recreating all their existing old tooling into new tooling. That won't happen either.

I think that 3D printing will have a major impact on the hobby because it will actually change the way kits are made. They won't need huge factories, multi-megabuck injection molding machines and dies, a packing and boxing operation, etc... because they will no longer be kit manufacturers, we will be the manufacturer! A model kit won't exist until its parts are printed out by the end user (us!).

I see the day where Revell, AMT, etc. will no longer make traditional injection molded plastic kits that come in a box and sit on a store shelf somewhere. They will be creating and selling 3D print files, directly to us via download, and we ourselves will actually "manufacture" the kit by plugging the 3D software for the new "Tucker" (or whatever we just bought) into our printer and creating the kit parts ourselves. We will no longer buy a kit that someone else manufactures... we will be buying the information needed to manufacture the kit ourselves (although in a different way than they used to be manufactured).

That's how I see 3D printing shaking up the hobby--changing it in a very basic way, just like the automobile changed what our idea of personal transportation was back when cars took over the job from horses.

[Ace-Garageguy]

What Harry said, but also, just MAYBE depending on how things shake out.....although the majority of hobbyists may not have 3D printing capability in-home for a while, there's absolutely no reason the majority of local hobby shops couldn't have the technology. It is of course vastly more efficient to ship a single drum of goo for the machine, and transmit the instructions for printing electronically than it is to manufacture, box, wrap, box again and ship individual models, including printing of the boxes, instruction sheets, etc. That would be a way to rapidly implement the tech until the market is, if ever, full of 3D home printing units.

It comes down to the difference in reading an e-book on a Kindle, or turning the pages in a traditional bound-paper volume. There's room for both approaches.

[sjordan2]

What Harry said, but also, just MAYBE depending on how things shake out.....although the majority of hobbyists may not have 3D printing capability in-home for a while, there's absolutely no reason the majority of local hobby shops couldn't have the technology. It is of course vastly more efficient to ship a single drum of goo for the machine, and transmit the instructions for printing electronically than it is to manufacture, box, wrap, box again and ship individual models, including printing of the boxes, instruction sheets, etc. That would be a way to rapidly implement the tech until the market is, if ever, full of 3D home printing units.

It comes down to the difference in reading an e-book on a Kindle, or turning the pages in a traditional bound-paper volume. There's room for both approaches.

This seems like the most likely scenario to me, at least for several years to come. Much like resin design and casting, 3D printing will probably flower as a growing cottage industry for vendors offering their services in many areas, from software development to made-to-order printing in the desired scale.

[Deathgoblin]

Personally I can't wait to get a 3D printer. I've got a background in CAD and have worked with 3D modelling before. Parts would be a lot easier to make than scratchbuilding from styrene.

[Harry P.]

A few years ago they featured a 3D printing operation on "This Old House."

They created a traditional architect's model of the proposed renovation in 3D. It came out of the printer with all the external and internal details in place and in full color... doors, windows...right down to the flooring and the wallpaper! It was incredible to see such an intricate thing as a fully detailed model house--exterior and interior--come out of the printer in one piece! And this was a few years ago! Imagine what the technology will be like a few years from now.

[Foxer]

I really doubt 3D printing will change the way Revell etc. operates much. Maybe they will use it some if it makes business sense in developing their plastic kits, like using it to "print" out a master to be translated into a steel mold.

Also, FYI, the going price for quality 3D files made for rendering is about $100 right now .. about the price of resin. Here's a link to one site selling for many of the best artists the create 3D car files ... 3d02 It's worth a look just to see the vast amount of autos that have been done in 3D. The rendering quality is amazing and most now are probably beyond the detail that would be needed for a 3D printer. All the images were rendered in one of the rendering programs available.

[Foxer]

A few years ago they featured a 3D printing operation on "This Old House."

They created a traditional architect's model of the proposed renovation in 3D. It came out of the printer with all the external and internal details in place and in full color... doors, windows...right down to the flooring and the wallpaper! It was incredible to see such an intricate thing as a fully detailed model house--exterior and interior--come out of the printer in one piece! And this was a few years ago! Imagine what the technology will be like a few years from now.

This is pretty standard for most all architects now, though the client would have to agree to the cost of actually creating that detailed a model. Many do create 3D models standard because they can be used to generate the 2D views used to make the building drawings needed most of all. It's been four years since I sold my Architectural-Engineering firm but we were doing this then .. and they are doing it MUCH more now.

The biggest thing coming, and it was demonstrated 5 or 6 years ago, is to create the model of a proposed building and then "go into it" using goggles and some controller with the client. It would be liking in the actual building. You could change colors, flooring, wall paper and move walls or cut new windows while you're in there! Amazing!

Edited October 17, 2012 by Foxer

[Danno]

Okay, lots of good discussion here, but none of youse guyz has answered the burning, central question: So what did Palmer Plastics announce at the iHobby Show and why aren't their new 18-in-1 kits readily available yet?

[CadillacPat]

Harry if these little 3D Printers ever gain the ability to manufacture a complete Model Kit of the same quality or better than what today's Model manufacturers produce,

If the programs needed to "print" an entire Model Kit, piece by piece, are ever simple enough for anyone to run them and achieve consistent satisfactory high end results,

If the mass demand (once the tech was proven 100% viable and it's accuracy 100% acceptable) were ever enough to justify Model Kit manufacturers to change over to offering files, or to offer files as an additional sideline,

If a large portion of Hobbyists decide they would rather "print" their own kits rather than pick them out from a display of pretty boxes like an excited kid in a candy store,

Then maybe, maybe. But I only see a portion, a very very small portion of Model Builders ever adding this method to their building.

Cost and time involved with 3D Printing would weigh heavily against buying Models off the shelf.

So, maybe there might be one guy in Peoria or Cleveland printing one off bodies, just like resin casters today, but for a couple hundred a pop.

But,

Hobbyists are driven by obsession. We like to go to the source of our interests (the store) and pick from an assorted display of brightly colored boxes with inspiring photos of how our build can look when finished. Sometimes we go just to look. The idea of looking through files online just doesn't measure up to a trip to the store.

Model Builders come in all kinds of degrees of dedication.

Some are satisfied and even happy with snapping together a Model that needs no paint,

Some want to take it a bit further,

Some aren't satisfied unless their build is very involved and very intricate from paint to final assembly.

But, and this is very important,

Some Modelers are as happy with their stash of a couple hundred kits they have in their closets and garage as they are with their finished builds.

Like your own Pharoahs Tomb you can stare and dream at all the kits in your stash just like you do in the store.

Just like HotWheels and Baseball cards, people buy Models and pack them away in the closet. Just the idea of having them, just like buying a Lotto ticket, allows you to look at them and dream of what will be. Digital files just don't have that pizazz..

Buyers, consumers, Hobbyists, like tangible items.

The talk here from some has been very futuristic like this can all happen with just the touch of one button.

If that day ever comes and we can print perfect durable large Model Kits at home in a machine for under $100,000 then I submit that it follows that Detroit will scrap their car factories and just "print" real cars.

For what these little but expensive 3D Printers can produce for use around the home (?????????) you can buy the same items at Walmart.

Think about it, for household use, what could possibly be made in these tiny little chambers, at great cost not only for the Printer but for Print Cartridge Material, that you could not purchase cheaply?

Now, do I have favorite HotWheels bodies that I would like to be able to quickly replicate, sure, but why, I can buy them for a buck apiece.

CadillacPat

[Harry P.]

Cost and time involved with 3D Printing would weigh heavily against buying Models off the shelf.

So, maybe there might be one guy in Peoria or Cleveland printing one off bodies, just like resin casters today, but for a couple hundred a pop.

CadillacPat

New technology comes down in price over time.

My very first VCR cost me $750. The last one I bout was $100, and it had more features than the first one.

Plasma and LCD TVs have greatly come down in price.

The same will happen with 3D printing. The day will come when buying a 3D printer for home use will be as common as buying a resin kit or an aftermarket PE detailing set.

And the day will come when the manufacturers abandon actually manufacturing plastic model kits, and will instead sell us electronic files. Modelers won't have the choice of buying a box full of plastic parts or outputting the parts, because the box full of plastic parts won't be being made anymore.

I'm not necessarily saying I see this happening in 5 years, or even 10. But I think that 3D printing technology, and the flexibility it gives the kit companies and the builders, and the fact that it makes the cost of running a factory, buying injection molding machines, cutting tooling, and boxing/shipping kits all over the country obsolete, is just too much to ignore. It's the future of model kits. I think it's inevitable that the 3D process is the way we'll be buying and creating model kits in the not-too-distant future.

And to your point regarding "printing" full-size cars, that's a completely different thing. You can't output sheet metal on a 3D printer. Not yet, at least. Remember, there was a time not so long ago that people thought the earth was flat...

[Chuck Doan]

One example of 3D modeling: a 1/16th scale gas pump for a diorama. Printed by Shapeways.

Here is the surface detail-it will sand smooth easily, but is typical of this process (for today anyway). I look at it as making my own kit, though the research and computer models take a lot more time than just buying a kit from the store.

[Jantrix]

And a judge should take into consideration what is resin, 3d printed, and scratch built along with the overall quality of a build.

Seriously? And how is the judge to know for certain that any part is scratchbuilt? Just because it is written on the entry form? If that were the case then every person who did 3D printing or resin cast would be listing work as scratchbuilt.

A judge must be TOTALLY impartial to the origin of any part of a build or the contest is inherently flawed because the judge is prejudiced. Only the quality of the final product matters. Period. Would you like to lose a contest when your build was better because you used a 3D printed part and the next guy scratchbuilt theirs?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Jantrix

[CadillacPat]

New technology comes down in price over time.

My very first VCR cost me $750. The last one I bout was $100, and it had more features than the first one.

But recording technology has been around since 1877. That's 138 years of advancement to today. That's what I'm talking about. Decades and decades of improvement for quality to increase and for prices to come down.

Plasma and LCD TVs have greatly come down in price.

TV's have been around since the 1930's, they've had 80 years of advancement. Same thing, decades and decades while decreasing in price all the time

The same will happen with 3D printing. The day will come when buying a 3D printer for home use will be as common as buying a resin kit or an aftermarket PE detailing set.

Okay, but even with rapidly advancing technology, this is still George Jetson stuff, sometime in the far distant future.

And the day will come when the manufacturers abandon actually manufacturing plastic model kits, and will instead sell us electronic files. Modelers won't have the choice of buying a box full of plastic parts or outputting the parts, because the box full of plastic parts won't be being made anymore.

But there will still be millions and millions and millions of them on hand stuck away in people's houses.

And,

What percentage of Modelers, in that distant future, will be seeking digital files of one off models, as compared to those who are buying all the world's easily available left over stock?

The majority of Modelers just want to build, they won't be interested in making their own kits. Not the majority, maybe 5% of Modelers will find that challenge appealing and affordable

I'm not necessarily saying I see this happening in 5 years, or even 10. But I think that 3D printing technology, and the flexibility it gives the kit companies and the builders, and the fact that it makes the cost of running a factory, buying injection molding machines, cutting tooling, and boxing/shipping kits all over the country obsolete, is just too much to ignore. It's the future of model kits. I think it's inevitable that the 3D process is the way we'll be buying and creating model kits in the not-too-distant future.

And to your point regarding "printing" full-size cars, that's a completely different thing. You can't output sheet metal on a 3D printer.

You don't have to. Metal powder is already being introduced into the process for product durability. Full Metal output would be the logical end to this. Or maybe Carbon Fiber.

So the size of the Printer will be the only difference.

Not yet, at least. Remember, there was a time not so long ago that people thought the earth was flat...

I agree, actually it is flat, but it's 25,000 miles in circumference.

So, if 500 years ago was "not so long ago" I would use the same time reference to gauge the possible advancement of these Printers to an acceptable level of quality.

CadillacPat

Edited October 17, 2012 by CadillacPat