Snap kits for kids?

[Harry P.]

Here's a thought that just crossed my mind...

Today there's much talk about attracting new kids to the modeling hobby. In order to try and get more little kids and beginners involved the model companies have brought out all sorts of "shortcut" gimmicks like snap kits, pre-painted bodies, self-adhesive stickers instead of decals, etc. In other words, there's a whole new variety of "dumbed-down" models available.

When us old farts were kids, there was no such thing. Kits didn't have "skill levels". Pretty much every kit (with maybe a few rare exceptions?) required glue, paint, decals, etc., yet the hobby had no problem attracting kids and beginners. In fact, most kit builders were kids! Somehow we all were able to handle these "real" kits. Actually, I liked the "harder" kits with more parts and detail as a kid.

So why do the model companies think that the way to get the kids involved today is to market these "gimmick" kits? We didn't need them 30 years ago...why do we need them now?

Let's hear your opinions.

[theflame]

I think the theory the manafacturers use is thatkids have less time nowadays thanks to Xboxes, TV, iPods, internets and whatever else - so having them spend an hour on a snapkit is already pushing it. I agree though, I liked building full detail kits as a kid!

[Bruce Poage]

In the early part of this decade I led a modelling activity for young people in our community. I spent 30 years as a school counselor. I assembled my first models in the late fifties. When I started modeling we lived in a slower paced society. We didn't watch a TV news program where a major world problem could be solved in 60 minutes sith 6 commercial breaks! We knew what it was to be patient. Today's kids want instant gratification. Is this not what they get with electronic games? They want to put a model together in 30 minutes and have something to look and be proud of. Just an observation.

[MrObsessive]

I think the problem underlying the shortage of kids in the hobby can be traced to a number of things. There are a LOT more things taking the up the activities of a kids life than years ago.

You've got computers, video games, music systems and whatnot determined to fill in the space of what used to be model building. Not to mention 1247 channels on TV to take whatever time is left over.

I think another reason (albeit subjective) is the fact that a LOT of kids are not being raised in whole families anymore.

Let's face it. With the divorce rate as high as it is, and many children living with mom, or being split up between two families, it's no wonder they don't take to hobbies such as model building like we did in the old days.

Now mind you, I come from a divorced home..............but I got into model building rather late in life considering (17) and I lived with my dad at the time who was (and still is) a real car guy. I was working then, and found model building to be a nice quiet diversion from the mundane activities of having to work part time and going to school.

How many youngsters who live solely with their mothers even have contact with their dad? This isn't to say women can't be into cars, but more often than not, it's the dads who get their kids into things automotive.

I don't mean for this to be down on marriage or families..............Lord knows I've never been married, but can empathise with kids who come from a broken home and maybe don't have the influence (be it male or female) to encourage them to get into things automotive. Be it model building, or tinkering with old cars, or going to a local race.

Just my 2¢

Edited October 11, 2007 by MrObsessive

[Bruce Poage]

Mr. Obsesive--great observations. I concur with much of what you have said. When I led the activity we called "Mighty Modelers" we required that every young person participating had to have an adult mentor with them. It could be a grandpa, grandma, mom's boyfriend, interested community person etc. But we wanted someone for the child to share the experience with.

[Harry P.]

I agree that there are a lot more things available to take up a kid's time these days. We didn't have cable TV, the internet, video games, etc.

But I'd have to disagree with the notion that today's family situations are part of the cause. When I was a kid, my friends and I were all into model building, but none of us ever had any parental involvement with the hobby. We built either alone, or while we hung out together. None of my friends dads (or moms!) ever participated with us, and neither did my own dad. Nobody had to "coax" us into model building...for some reason we all got into it on our own.

[MrObsessive]

Harry, that was the case with me-----while my dad was a car guy he had no influence on me as far as starting model building. Not to mention, I was a bit older than most kids that got started building as I was a senior in high school about to graduate.

What I'm getting at is the breaking up of families today affect kids a lot more than them wanting to get into model building. Undoubtedly due to the stress that kids go through when a family has broken up (and sometimes long before) and the upheaval that can take place long after the breakup.

It's sad to hear some of the stories I've heard from kids who've been shuffled back and forth due to a custody battle or shared custody or whatever.

If I were put through that situation.........having no sound home to come home to, I couldn't keep my mind focused on model building long enough.

I'm not coming down on those who've gone through or are going through this situation..............there's a myriad of reasons why families break up.

Just something I've observed over the years.

[Harry P.]

I definitely agree with you that there are a whole lot more broken families today than there was when I was a kid.

And with all the stress and pressure today's kids are under, it's probably safe to assume that kids nowadays just don't have the same psychological makeup that kids had 40 years ago. I know it sounds cliche, but "back in my day" things really were a lot more laid-back...and I grew up in the city!

Too many things influence our kids these days...music videos, the internet, video games, you name it. We've bred a generation of kids with the attention span of gerbils. Someone mentioned "instant gratification". Sadly enough, that's true. Today we all want everything NOW. The sense of pride and accomplishment in completing a process seems to have disappeared. All we want now is instant results.

[lordairgtar]

I'm going to take this a different direction, wholly based on something I heard from some young kid at a car show. There are very few young ones involved in the car culture as we were. They don't have the each Boys or Jan and Dean and others extolling the virtues of having a cool car. If a car is mentioned at all in todays music, it's about the big screens and thumping stereos in the back or using them to do "drive bys". Also the political attitude of the young in regards to the environment has them thinking of cars as major rapers of the Earth and should all be scrapped. Think about this, when a kid looks out into the street and sees his parents car, what does he most likely see? It's not some flashy chrome laden finned beast with a motor big enough to pull trees out by the roots...it's a utilitarian plain vehicle like a mini-van or a pick up truck or a SUV. Even my own old man had a V8 in his Chevy wagon. My Gramps had high performance Buicks and my other Gramps on the farm up north had a cool 1960 Ford 2 door hardtop. So getting back to the kids at the car show? They just didn't understand the whole interest in old outdated cars. They consider large engined flashy cars as a pariah and a detriment to the environment. When the most exciting car in their minds is a hybrid like a Prius, the car hobby and model cars in particular are indeed in trouble. Thankfully, there is a small rabid bunch of kids who are going to carry on the car culture with there interest in 50s and 60s style traditional style hot rods.

[LVZ2881]

I am going to agree with Bill on his family observations....heres my example:

I am divorced and remarried. I have 2 kids from my first wife, and none with my current wife. I have custody of my kids every other week, including weekends. My daughter, who is the oldest at 7, has been raised around cars both before and after the divorce. I brought her home from the hospital in a Camaro to help carry on the family tradition that my dad started with me. Of my daughters 7 years on earth, there is about 1 year total that i havent had a camaro in the garage, and models in the closet, and out on the work bench. Just last month my daughter asked ME to take her to the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Races, and informed me that she would love to go to the NHRA races later this month( which i proceeded to go out and get tickets for with a huge smile on my face). And just this month alone we have assembled 2 Revell snap kits for her, at her request!! Going to the races and building models were her ideas, that she picked up from me. So to back up what Bill is saying, there is that factor of having an influence at home to get kids involved in the hobby. Now, my father never built models, it was my uncle who got me into building. When i was young, I would would see him 2-3 times a year, and I would always stare at his built collection in his display whenever I was at his house. Later in life, late childhood, early teens, when we lived in the same town, we would build together on a weekly basis.

[jbwelda]

>So why do the model companies think that the way to get the kids involved today is to market these "gimmick"

>kits?

they neatly sidestep the issue of so-called "toxic" substances exposure. no glue, no paint, dont know if the decals part come under this or if they are just easier to deal with.

> We didn't need them 30 years ago...why do we need them now?

we used to be able to have fun with very potential life threatening activities.

no more bag o' glass or bag o' vipers or anything anymore. dang.

i remember running around in the fog of a DDT truck and playing on the SAC runway on Guam as B52s probably loaded with nuclear weapons screamed 100ft overhead. and playing in ponds of what was probably at least 50% jet fuel. and shooting bottle rockets at each other. and who can forget the immortal lawn darts?

and thats what i think largely drives this: consumer liability and just making it easier for parents to stomach for their dear children.

tell you though, we went through about 50 snap kits at our "build and take" this past weekend at the NSRA nationals and all the kids seemed to dig them!

[MrObsessive]

Gregg, that's a good point about what kids may be learning about the car culture today. Growing up in the '60's and '70's there were all types of cool cars I got to ogle at on the streets. You still had some of the finned '50's beasts roaming the roads, as well as the super powered muscle cars which were becoming nice cheap used cars by the late '70's.

That started to change by the '80's when boring and undependable American junk started populating our roads being put out by the Big Three. Couple this with Americans getting tired of buying American junk and buying Asian............no wonder the Toyota Camry is the #1 car sold today, where in the '60's it was the Chevy Impala, which came in an array of bodystyles-----from a pedestrian 2 dr sedan to a rip snorting convertible.

This has translated into not a whole lot being offered on the domestic front in the way of models. Who can get excited about a boring minivan?...........Or a Camry?? And don't get me started on the Prius!

This is starting to change now on the domestic front as GM in particular has some really snazzy cars now and more to come in the next few years.

I just wonder if it's too late to recapture some of the passion in younger folks into cars and models today as we had in the '60's and '70's. It would be nice if the domestic automakers commissioned promos like they did in the old days. There are a number of cars that would make nice promos. That went a ways towards getting youngsters years ago interested.

Mom and Dad bought a car (or ordered one) and Johnny got a model of said car to play around with!

Bill, I totally agree with you about todays litigious society! Heaven forbid GM build a four door hardtop today (another sore subject with me) and someone sue because the car got t-boned in an accident and there were injuries. Don't blame the driver who t-boned you.....blame GM for building a car without a B-pillar.

Or model companies offering "safe" glue..........lest Suzy or Johnny get zonked out for sniffing glue fumes and their parents sue.

So sad.

[rollover]

As an automtive repair shop owner it amazes me how FEW young men know anything about cars, they cannot even check their own oil. Of the few that are interested their main concern is the sound system. I guess I'm lucky that my son has joined me in the business. He has quite a few car collectors coming in for his after hour work. His client list includes 1927 LaSalle, 1929 LaSalle, 1937 Cadillac, a few 1940 and 1941 Cadillacs, 1950's Chevy pickups, 1962 Corvette and a 1967 Corvette he is currently doing a carb overhaul on. And lots of Austin Mini Coopers, Land Rvoers and other British cars. These people are finding it harder and harder to find anyone with a passion to keep these cars going much less have any knowledge of them.

[Fisher61]

Well, I'm 46 yrs old and I started with snap kits when I was 8 or 9 years old. First ones were the Revell 1/32nd scale '57 Chevy and '57 Fords. After a few of these, my dad let me move up to glue kits, sort of like removing the training wheels from my bike. When I was a kid, I could walk down town and find 2 dime stores and 2 hardware stores that all sold kits and had good selections. Fast forward to 2007 and we have 1 Wal-Mart with a limited selection. Could the lack of exposure be part of the problem?

[mikemodeler]

Much of what I feel is the problem has been stated here-broken families, too many distractions, "McDonalds' Mentality" (instant gratification),lack of 1:1 cars to draw interest, lack of general automotive knowledge.

Back in my youth (I am 44)my friends that built model cars generally were car nuts and like me, liked working with our hands building the car of our dreams. We also were the ones that could take our bikes apart blindfolded and searched out the neighbor who was tinkering with a car,truck, motorcycle- you name it we were there!

Now, I buy snap kits for my kids (10 yr old girl and 14 yr old boy) in the hopes that they will join old Dad for some building fun now and then. They typically enjoy it, but given my hectic schedule (and theirs), we don't get to build that many kits a year. My older child likes airplanes more than cars, and he has tried to build glue kits of both, but his skills need work. He understands that it comes with time, but he also has ADD so it can get difficult to have him sit still long enough to build sub-assemblies, let alone a whole kit. My daughter likes building cars but is into playing with her friends and other activities so I guess I have to hope that she marries a car guy!

Not sure what the solution is, or if the model car companies can come up with something to spark the interest of youngsters. I do know that I have enough cars and trucks to build without another new release or reissue but truly hope that the kits keep coming!

Mike Scheve

[bobss396]

I think that the car culture is just not as strong for today's kid than it was with us. I grew up in the '60s reading all the car mags, learned how to read on them in fact. One of my neighbors had some cool cars to grok at. I started collecting tools at age 9, worked on cars shortly after.

I had to laugh a few years back. I was working on a model at home and one of my son's friends was over. He asked me if that was a skill level 3 kit. I looked at him (I was not having any fun at the moment) and said, "kid, this is a skill level 16". He nodded wisely and moved on.

Bob

[FloridaBoy]

My dad was a car guy, and so were my uncles, cousins, and every other relative up in western Pa where I am originally from. I learned to build in that community of car guys, and we lived in the central part of downtown (very small town) and many people parked their cars next to our family compound. Plus, it didn't hurt that a Chevy dealer was right next door, so there were always plenty of trade in cars sitting alongside the alley between the dealer and our property.

Plus, I idolized all of my uncles as well as my dad, and would watch them for hours when they performed repairs in their driveways. That led to my lifetime affair with THE CAR. Even though I always drove Nerdmobiles, I did that for survival, and built the cars as models I always dreamed of, deuces, merc, 40's, etc etc etc.

Then when I was in my 30's I had my own house and did my own repairs on my wife's Toyota and my Maverick and Comet. Those were easy. But they provided me an intimate relationship with the car, which transcended over to my models. But the kids of today do not work on their own cars, except to add rear spoilers or big wheels. It is impossible to get to even a spark plug these days, so everything is farmed out, and there goes the intimate relationship. I have seen models built by teens that just don't have a clue what a radiator does, or where spark plug wires go, and I don't blame them.

That is my $.02

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[patrol52]

I started out with the "snap together" kits that were actually plastic. They required glue to attach a few parts and put some things together, but were molded in color so didn't require paint, and were then held together with several screws. They were a great start for building more difficult models, as a regular model just requires more gluing and painting. Have you looked for one of these at walmart recently? They do not exist anymore! The major places most people look for models don't carry this kind of kit and places that do have them are not places people, in general, look. Even worse, the ###### they do carry requires the IQ of a third grader to assemble, "wow those two screws were hard to tighten!"

I also agree with the fact that cars have become so impersonal that there is no more connection with them like in the good old days. No longer can you fix a car with a simple set of tools, it's darn near impossible to do it without a PC. It isn't that it's a bad thing as the cars are better (in respect), but I think kids now days truly think that a huge wing, neon lights, and dubs make the car faster due to games like Need for Speed.

Even worse than the technology, is the price. In the 50's kids worked on 30's and 40's cars. In the 60's and 70's and even 80's they had muscle cars, but now about the only thing you can find for cheap are 80's and 90's cars. They make great tuner style vehicles, but they just aren't muscle cars or classic hot-rods. Anything that is muscle car or hot-rod related cost serious money, something most kids don't have (I know I don't, that's why I build models.) Along with the lack of affordable hot-rods is the influence factor. TV and media was all pro street, then the flat paint, now the rat-rod trend. There are still throwbacks to the original spirit of hot-rodding, but everything there is an attempt to make it look like a barn find or whatever, not actually being the real deal. Hot rods were both show and go and every mix between. Muscle cars looked menacing and were quick machines. What's menacing looking about a 5.0 mustang or 82 Firechicken, yeah, nothing! (Not that they can't be, but most aren't compared to a 70 Boss or a full on Hemi roadrunner.)

I guess in all my rambling, my point is:

Cars that you can get excited about are too expensive for most to obtain, and cars that are affordable and hot rodded by younger guys haven't really made it to models yet as the demand isn't there (and probably won't be until those cars become rare.) Kits that are intended to get people in the door are too easy, and have replaced the better beginner kits it seems for now. Mass media pushes trends too much and everybody gets on the bandwagon, then jumps ship for another trend. Once upon a time the common goal was speed, and kool. Nobody is out there pushing looking good while going fast on everyday budget. While builders like Boyd build awesome rides, you never really see those cars getting beaten as a driver day to day and then raced on the strip on the weekends. The passion is there, but the focus is different. The name of the game is to spend as much as possible and if you can't spend it with the millionaires, then you might as well stop with your 82 Firechicken.

[Aaronw]

My dad was a car guy, and so were my uncles, cousins, and every other relative up in western Pa where I am originally from. I learned to build in that community of car guys, and we lived in the central part of downtown (very small town) and many people parked their cars next to our family compound. Plus, it didn't hurt that a Chevy dealer was right next door, so there were always plenty of trade in cars sitting alongside the alley between the dealer and our property.

Plus, I idolized all of my uncles as well as my dad, and would watch them for hours when they performed repairs in their driveways. That led to my lifetime affair with THE CAR. Even though I always drove Nerdmobiles, I did that for survival, and built the cars as models I always dreamed of, deuces, merc, 40's, etc etc etc.

Then when I was in my 30's I had my own house and did my own repairs on my wife's Toyota and my Maverick and Comet. Those were easy. But they provided me an intimate relationship with the car, which transcended over to my models. But the kids of today do not work on their own cars, except to add rear spoilers or big wheels. It is impossible to get to even a spark plug these days, so everything is farmed out, and there goes the intimate relationship. I have seen models built by teens that just don't have a clue what a radiator does, or where spark plug wires go, and I don't blame them.

That is my $.02

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

I always considered myself a total novice when it came to auto repair, I've done the easy stuff change the oil, air cleaner etc and have done a little more complex stuff like the brakes, replace the distributor, replaced shocks, rebuilt a carb, set the timing etc.

Then I started talking to other people and found that many don't even know how to change a flat tire. It certainly made me feel better about my skills, I may need to follow along step by step in a book but at least I can do it (and know what the various thingies under the car are).

My wife wanted to change her own shocks on her car, the guys at work were all shocked that I made my wife fix her car, they were stunned when I pointed out I didn't make her do it, she asked if I'd mind if she did it.

As far as the original question, I like the snap kits. I have a 7 year old and we've built the occasional model together for the past couple years. The nice thing with the snap kits is he can do them with a little help (some of those parts need a lot of finger strength to get them to snap in place) but mostly they hold up to play which most glue models won't. As a 7 year old he isn't to enthused with put on a shelf look at me models he want something to play with. Luckily he does understand the difference between dad's models and his models.

Edited October 12, 2007 by Aaronw

[Andy Wyatt]

Easy Nick! Wow! Really interesting point of view you have there. I know Nick, he and his dad are fellow club members. Nick isn't a kid anymore and he has progressed WAY beyond snap kits, but he's a lot closer to being a kid than most of us here. I know he's about the same age as my son...we'll just call him a young adult. It's refreshing to hear someone as young as yourself having some of the points of view you have. Oh, by the way...don't throw your Ipod or whatever it is against the wall...I'll take it if you don't want it! You or Ned will have to show me how it works though!

[Nick F40]

ok...deep breaths..........deep breaths...

some are ok and are actually nice and usefull like my freinds nextel plays full songs pretty loud to. i learned how to use them from my friends

[jbwelda]

perhaps contrary to popular opinion, i dont think kids are turned off by cars or models of cars per se these days, i think they are turned off by a certain *era* of cars. that era of course is where many of us draw our main inspiration from.

if you stick a low rider or a tuner sort of model in front of them, i, anyway, see a lot more interest. this is at car shows with adjacent model shows. just last weekend i saw numerous kids who you might think were totally absorbed in video game generation oohing and ahhing over tuners (these three kids im thinking of in particular) and also the lowrider contingent. and at least a couple of them engaged me in exacting kind of conversation about how you do this or that, and when i held forth he soaked it all in. i was pretty impressed and surprised at the level of interest among the young people there, but for the most part they were interested in modern trends and not our (speaking for myself here) generation.

it does have to be said, though, that most of them want to just be able to buy them, instead of build them. sometimes its hard to get across to them that these models took a lot of time to hand build, they werent just bought off the shelf at wally world or targay.

[Dave]

I guess I was kind of lucky in the fact my dad and my brother both were building models all the time, dad loved sailing ships and my brother it was WWI biplanes. I jumped in when they bought a new 1967 Ambassador...it was yellow witha black roof....but it came with a couple model cars!!. I also loved kits with working features...opening doors, trunks etc. An Early favorite was Monogram P-51 that could drop its bombs! I still remember jockying for position at the table after dinner so we all could build stuff at the same time! I bet the glue fume volume was at a peak then!. You know even with little league and having a pool in our yard there was time for models. I can still hear my mom asking eveyone what they were build after dinner.......

We had a model club at school one year, lots of fun, a place to spray paint that was safe, a few others to talk to and a teacher who was suddenly cool.

I wish I had an answer to get kids interested like we were, but I imagine in thirty years or so our kids will be wondering how to get young people interested into thier hobbies as something else will come along to take up our free time.

I myself hope to be building still in 30 years, and hopefully will have finished a kit by then! Thanks for getting my blood going on a cilly Saturday...I think a trip to the LHS is in order today.

[Smart-Resins]

I agree with many things posted here. I was raised as a only child in a what was then a "regular" family structure. My modeling experiance was started by my father.Although he never spent much time with me, he did try to start me on many boy things like traines, cox airplanes, models, r/c trucks and rockets.When I was older, he did try to get me to go hunting as well.He wanted me to be well rounded and structured and know what a man was about. I feel as though there is a huge lack of just that in todays society. Back in the day, one parent worked.Todays sociaty most all parents work regardles of the living situation. Back then there were many family virtues. I see and feel as though family virtues are slipping greatly. The parent/s look for a "baby sitter" for thier kids as so they are not bothered by them after a very long day at work.So here comes the game machines and Tv and Ipods ect. In my home, we do not have cable.We only have movies, what ever we buy.We are Christians and do not hold any value in TV especially with todays content of television.We have family values and spend some time everyday as a family and at least one day each weekend just for family time. I enjoy spending time with my children trying to work on models with them.However sometimes they seem alienated still.My daughter tells me that there are no other kids in her grade who do models and that cars are a guy thing. I keep telling here that liking cars are for girls too.When she gets invlolved, then she is in tune with it.But sometimes it is a struggle to get her to the bench.Poeple think we are rather crazy since we dont have tv or cell phones or ipods or xboxes.They laugh at us that we are out dated.I never wanted to become a old fart.But if losing my children to a modern society is the trade off, then I will be that old fart and retain my family virtues and try to instill in my kids what hobbies and family is about. I think thats were groups/clubs need to try to work harder at, trying to draw in kids in after school activieties and get them hooked.I dont think in general the parents will and I doubt theres enough kids out there to instill in thier friends these things as that would be un-cool.For those kids left wondering the streets until Mom or Dad get home looking or something to do, hunt them down and show them things to do.As a model group, some are for strictly crs or planes ect. Braoden the horizons and find out what the kids interests are and get them hooked, wether its a building, plane car or truck, maybe even a monster.Modeleing is modeling!

[Nick F40]

Lighten up dude, before you give yourself a stroke.

all im saying is kids nowadys dont know what to do in their free time if they dont have a cellphone, ipod, or xbox in front of their faces.

ya i do agree with you though and dont worry, im calming down