What Irked You Today?

[blunc]

I hate when that happens.

[Joe Handley]

Can't return them since I modded one of the foam inserts, but I know a couple guys that might be able to use them on their rigs.

[unclescott58]

Comic.

Sans.

Okay, if I don't understand something, I have to ask. And I don't understand this one. What does it mean?

Scott

[Guest]

It seems the age old apprentice system for craftsmen and trades is no longer around, or people aren't willing to put in the effort today?

I think it's the lack of effort. Many 18 year old kids fresh out of a vocational high school have a high opinion of themselves and of their ability. They don't want to work for it because they feel that their above getting dirty. I've had apprentices tell me "I've been doing this for 4 years, I'm not going to clean up". Some kids have better guidance and direction than others, some just have attitude.

[Tom Geiger]

Yes, in any career you have to start out w the basics and work your way to more complex or higher responsibility positions...a path from novice to master. It seems the age old apprentice system for craftsmen and trades is no longer around, or people aren't willing to put in the effort today? A strong, sustainable economy requires a lot of different skill sets. Seems to be many shortages in some areas today.

In industry the newly graduated engineers did corporate boot camp. They started out on the drafting board, shadowing experienced engineers on projects and handling minor tasks. Today, right out of college, some of them think they should be handling multi-million dollar jobs. And they don't have a clue.

I once had a college intern working for me. He was a good guy who wanted to absorb knowledge so I put him through the paces. I had him standing out in the heat and cold watching fencing installations and indoors replacing carpet and watching painters in occupied spaces, and other ground level work to get him familiar with the work environment. I made him help with space planning, office furniture installation, getting phones assigned, office moves and how to dispose of assets. Much of it engineering grunt work, but he smiled and learned to do it all well.

He graduated and followed his girlfriend to Florida so we didn't have the opportunity to hire him permanently. I got a phone call from him maybe 4 years later. He said he thought of me every day and could still hear my voice saying that our work was really 75% psychology and 25% engineering .

He had just finished a project relocating his company from one office building to a new one, and he wound up in charge of the entire project because he was the only engineer, (and this was an engineering company!), who knew how and understood the importance of all the tasks listed above.

[southpier]

Frank Lloyd Wright's contention: if you want to be an architect, learn how to push a wheelbarrow.

(paraphrased) - but the point being, how could someone design if they didn't understand how things went together?

although the comment may not be pertinent to the conversation here .....

carry on

[Ace-Garageguy]

Frank Lloyd Wright's contention: if you want to be an architect, learn how to push a wheelbarrow.

(paraphrased) - but the point being, how could someone design if they didn't understand how things went together?

although the comment may not be pertinent to the conversation here .....

carry on

Great quote, and I think it's absolutely pertinent to the conversation. Honda, whose products are consistently among the best in the world for moderate cost, requires its executives to learn the business from the production floor up. I think this philosophy has a lot to do with the quality of the product.

I also find it appalling, very often, that it's entirely obvious when servicing SOME cars (and other machines of comparatively recent vintage) that the designers never actually held tools in their hands, or had to WORK on anything. Some access to fasteners is just plain moronic, almost impossible to get to in the field; sometimes the order of assembly of components is just as stupid, and parts interfere with each other. And there's really no excuse for this today, especially when a car can be "built" in a virtual environment, and any access or dis-assembly problems can be easily identified during the design phase.

Requiring car designers to be reasonably qualified as mechanics FIRST would make a whole lot of sense. Then they'd know what to look out for.

[Pete J.]

I have a very good friend who is the brightest person I know. I often refer to him as my rocket scientist friend, which in almost true. He is a mechanical engineer who spent the majority of his career at JPL in Pasadena, Ca. His specialty is engine combustion. He has managed many different projects at JPL from the first Mars lander on. He is now in his mid eighty's and has the greatest curiosity in all that goes on around him and is conversant in just about any subject you would like to bring up. I have the privilege of driving him to our monthly modeling club meetings and the best part each month is the trip down and back because of the conversation. Any time the subject of engineers comes up we always seem to wind up in the same place that this discussion is going. As a young M.E. he started at the university in the machine shop, learning the ways of a mill and lathe. He worked with tool and die men and got the basics of construction that way. He does not understand how todays engineers can get along without this type of experience. You just can't design stuff that is practical without practical experience. Theory is fine, but you really need hands on experience to apply the theory.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Pete J.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Pretty cool, Pete. He ought to know. He builds model cars too?

[Pete J.]

Pretty cool, Pete. He ought to know. He builds model cars too?

He did. That is how I met him. Unfortunately his eyesight has deteriorated to the point that he no longer builds. His builds were some of the cleanest, best researched and meticulously detailed models I have ever seen. He build a N.A.R.T. Spyder and a Daytona Cobra that just made my jaw drop. If you have ever heard my story of the three Ferrari 360 spyders in OOB, he is one of the three that played that gag!

Edited September 17, 2014 by Pete J.

[Harry P.]

I also find it appalling, very often, that it's entirely obvious when servicing SOME cars (and other machines of comparatively recent vintage) that the designers never actually held tools in their hands, or had to WORK on anything. Some access to fasteners is just plain moronic, almost impossible to get to in the field; sometimes the order of assembly of components is just as stupid, and parts interfere with each other.

My son owned a couple of late '90s Camaros. The engine was set so far back that getting at the rearmost spark plugs was basically impossible... yet there was about a foot and a half of space between the radiator and the front of the engine. Normal maintenance on the engine was impossible, you had to take it to a shop, and because of the ridiculous engineering, a simple spark plug replacement was a major operation.

[crazyjim]

I had a V8 Chevy Monza like that Harry. I cut a flap in the wheel well to get at the back plug. Manual said to lift the engine partially out.

[Ace-Garageguy]

The old Sunbeam Tiger was the same way...you pretty much had to cut a hole in the inner fender to get the last plug. And at least they gave you an access hole for one of them in the footwell.

BUT, the old Tiger was never intended to have a V8 in it. Being an off-line hot-rod conversion, with a big engine shoehorned into a tiny engine bay, I was inclined to let that one slide. Fun car, wonderful sound and worth the minor inconvenience.

It's when a mommy-van is more grief to service than a Ferrari that I start seeing red.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[cobraman]

I heard that some shops would not change the 2 rear plugs on some of those cars. I have no idea if that is true.

[Rob Hall]

My son owned a couple of late '90s Camaros. The engine was set so far back that getting at the rearmost spark plugs was basically impossible... yet there was about a foot and a half of space between the radiator and the front of the engine. Normal maintenance on the engine was impossible, you had to take it to a shop, and because of the ridiculous engineering, a simple spark plug replacement was a major operation.

I remember those..an example of bad design..they tried to do a cab forward design with an absurdly large windshield that covered the engine partially...would be interesting to compare the dimensions of the windshield on those vs the 5th gen car.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Ace-Garageguy]

Chrysler built something fairly recently that required removing a wheel to get the battery out.

I was not impressed.

[Rob Hall]

Chrysler built something fairly recently that required removing a wheel to get the battery out.

I was not impressed.

Nice...the Cadillac DTS has it under the rear seat..bottom cushion is removable to access it. I've had a couple of cars w/ the battery in the trunk behind removable panels.

[Mike_G]

Back in the '80s my neighbor had a Buick Grand National, one day I walked by his driveway and he had the front end up on jack stands and both front wheels off so I asked if he was doing brakes and he said no, changing spark plugs.

[Ju Ju]

I'm a software engineer...I DO create things, but they exist within computers and computer networks..in the virtual world. And the job market values my skills. STEM skills (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) are in high demand and the market puts a high value on them...software is increasingly important to control the devices and systems of the modern world. I went to college and grad school, I'm certainly not going to be employed doing physical labor.

Well, Mr . Hall -

A lot of us were not born and raised in wealth & privilege as you were ........and have humbly pointed out on many occasions.

Some of us have had to preform physical labor to earn our daily bread.

I wonder what type of specimen of physical fitness you are by never preforming any physical labor ?

This is not an attack, but please don't look down on those that do physical labor. Like the guy that would come to fix your toilet when you're used too much paper or ate such good food ?

My mom always said if you need more than 4 squares your butt's too big or you need a shower............

[Ace-Garageguy]

Well, Mr . Hall -

A lot of us were not born and raised in wealth & privilege as you were .......

Bad assumption. A lot of people have WORKED their way through college and grad school, sometimes doing manual labor, if the desire to learn and get ahead was strong enough.

Not fair at all to assume just because someone is well educated and successful that they didn't EARN every bit of it.

You have to have something on the ball to be an engineer. Just being able to afford school isn't enough, and IF you want it bad enough, you can get there too...without "wealth and privilege".

Edited September 18, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Pete J.]

Bill that is kind of annoying. The assumption that because one came from wealth and privilege to get through school is so bogus. I don't think I knew anyone I would classify that way when I was getting my education. I have a bachelors and two masters and my life was anything but "wealth and privilege" I grew up on a farm in Nebraska and worked my tush off as a kid and all the way through college to get that first degree. I did my post graduate work when I was in the Air Force serving as a "Yankee air pirate" during Vietnam. I don't look down on anyone unless they are the type that are unwilling to put forth the effort to be good at what they do.

[blunc]

I once had a coworker hand a DMM to an engineer (a rather newly degree'd engineer) and ask him to check the polarity on a resistor, this new engineer asked what setting on the meter to use for that purpose.

Not all engineers are created equal...

I am irked at my current job by what seem to be "entitled" scientists that can't be bothered to keep their labels and instructions straight and then get mad when things aren't done they way they wanted.

[Guest]

I once had a coworker hand a DMM to an engineer (a rather newly degree'd engineer) and ask him to check the polarity on a resistor, this new engineer asked what setting on the meter to use for that purpose.

That's a good one!

[Joe Handley]

What's a DMM?

[1972coronet]

Daily : Open-mouth chewing and other food-related sounds / noises from my dad .

Once a Week : The microwaving of Chinese food leftovers while I'm eating breakfast (same person as mentioned above) .

Ad Infintium : Brain dead people ; unnecessary traffic jams ; unattended-to children ; noisy children ; unsyncronised traffic lights ; and , my deteriorating health (a gradual process consisting of arthritis , pinched nerves , herniated discs , failling eye sight , and just a general mid-life crisis ).