The Importance of Paying Attention, Illustrated

[Ace-Garageguy]

[Joe Handley]

ooops.

[berr13]

Any word on the pilot of the smaller plane? Looks grim...

[Ace-Garageguy]

Any word on the pilot of the smaller plane? Looks grim...

Pilot of the small plane unhurt. Passenger killed instantly.

[Guest]

I think the air traffic controller bears some responsibility also. Those planes should not have been allowed to get together in that manner. Judging the heighth of the bigger plane, it's quite possible that he wasn't able to see the smaller plane. Tragic event no matter.

[philo426]

The Avenger chopped it up pretty well!Did not even damage the prop!

[Ace-Garageguy]

I think the air traffic controller bears some responsibility also. Those planes should not have been allowed to get together in that manner. Judging the heighth of the bigger plane, it's quite possible that he wasn't able to see the smaller plane. Tragic event no matter.

When you taxi ANY aircraft, especially a large taildragger like the Avenger, your PRIMARY responsibility is to constantly check around you for other airplanes. YOUR responsibility, as pilot in command of the aircraft. It doesn't cut it to say "I didn't see it"...obviously, or to rely on ATC to tell you what to do. These aircraft were in a long line waiting to turn on to a runway to take off. The little one stopped. The pilot of the big one didn't see, because he wasn't looking.

Large taildraggers are taxied safely by performing a series of shallow "S" turns back and forth across the taxiway, in order to see what's IN FRONT of you, because you CAN'T see over the nose. This pilot didn't bother.

All of us, every day, engage in activities that can kill or maim as a result of a moment's inattention.

Stay safe. Pay attention.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[1930fordpickup]

Well said Bill.

Edited December 11, 2013 by 1930fordpickup

[Guest]

Wow. Very sad. That pilot will live with that the rest of his life.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Wow. Very sad. That pilot will live with that the rest of his life.

Yes...glad you said that, because that's really the point. The pilot of the Avenger felt horrible when he realized what he'd done, of course, but no amount of regret will change it.

It only takes an instant of inattention or irresponsibility to end someone's life...yours, someone you love, or that of a perfectly innocent bystander, and it can just as easily happen on the way to the mall for Christmas shopping with your family.

Please pay attention.

[charlie8575]

I always wondered why planes never seemed to taxi in a straight line- I always thought it was wind resistance or something- that explains it.

I couldn't see that was an Avenger- looked like a Wildcat to me from the nacelle. I didn't realize those were that big- or was the other plane that small? Actually, what was the other one?

Charlie Larkin

[Joe Handley]

Not sure Charlie, almost looks like a 1:1 version of the Extra aerobatic R/C plane.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I couldn't see that was an Avenger- looked like a Wildcat to me from the nacelle. I didn't realize those were that big- or was the other plane that small? Actually, what was the other one?

It's a Van's Aircraft RV-6 homebuilt, very popular and well engineered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van%27s_Aircraft_RV-6

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv6.htm

Edited December 12, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[bbowser]

Tragic. And yes the same thing happens daily on the interstate or other roads. We just had a case where a driver attempted to commit suicide by driving into the median of the interstate and collided head-on with another car killing a husband, wife, and 8 month old unborn child. He of course survived to be arrested!

[martinfan5]

RIP to the person that lost their life

[Guest]

Just saw a 3 car pileup today, literally. One day was on top of another! No one pays attention, too busy texting, and everyone is in such a freaking hurry anymore.

[Daddyfink]

This incident happend at Oshkosh, Wis. during their big air show back in 2006. The Avenger was doing S-Turns when the small homebuilt pulled out in front of it. The Avenger pilot and passenger, his wife, never saw the small plane veer in front of them until it was too late.

[ScaleDale]

If anyone really has to know, here's the preliminary report:

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=6fbfb718-62f9-4057-9a00-a77fea44dafe

The width of the Avenger gave it 11 1/2 feet of pavement on each side of the main landing gear, so shallow S turns were possible but they probably wouldn't have prevented this accident. A second RV6 backed off from entering the taxiway to let the Avenger pass to avoid being in front of it. Add the people in this plane to the victims list.

There's no escaping the fact that the pilot of the Avenger should not have proceeded onto the taxiway without an escort on foot to guide him down.

The event was dominated by this big plane/little plane thing and I'm sure this wasn't the only time a homebuilt was close to a big war bird.

Dale

[Ace-Garageguy]

This incident happend at Oshkosh, Wis. during their big air show back in 2006. The Avenger was doing S-Turns when the small homebuilt pulled out in front of it.

Ummm...no. Here is the full text of the NTSB preliminary investigation report. http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20060804X01093&ntsbno=CHI06FA206B&akey=2

Excerpts: "(A) witness reported that he was walking in the same direction as the Avenger was taxiing, so the witness was focused on watching the Avenger. The witness reported that the Avenger was moving "very slowly and deliberately." He reported that the Avenger did not make any S-turns while it taxied on Papa taxiway. He reported that there were no wing-walkers for the Avenger while it taxied on Papa taxiway. "

"The video indicated that the Avenger was taxiing straight ahead for about 9 - 10 seconds prior to the time of impact and was not making an S-turn. The video indicated that the Avenger pilot was looking forward over the nose of the Avenger as it was taxiing forward prior to impact with the RV-6. "

The investigation further showed that the little RV was invisible to the pilot of the Avenger out to 170 feet. The Avenger pilot reported only seeing the aircraft that was IN FRONT of the little RV.

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Where exactly did you get your information, Mr. Chavez?? It doesn't agree at all with the established facts. Why would you deliberately post something that disagrees with all the eyewitness accounts (except for ONE witness who said the Avenger made ONE S-turn long before the impact) and the NTSB prelim?

Nobody "pulled out in front of" or "veered in front of" anybody.

EDIT: A quick search of the NTSB database failed to turn up the final report.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[ScaleDale]

NTSB Identification: CHI06FA206A
Accident occurred Sunday, July 30, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
Probable Cause Approval Date: 07/25/2007
Aircraft: Grumman TBM-3, registration: N420GP
Injuries: 1 Fatal,3 Uninjured.

NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

A Grumman TBM-3, Avenger, sustained minor damage when it taxied into the empennage and fuselage of an amateur-built RV-6. Both aircraft were taxiing for takeoff on Papa taxiway (35 feet wide, ashphalt), which paralleled runway 18 at the Wittman Regional Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The accident occurred during the EAA AirVenture 2006 air show. The RV-6 pilot reported that he taxied forward on the P-1 taxiway and was directed by the volunteer flag person to taxi south on Papa taxiway. He reported that he was taxiing behind a green and white, high wing airplane that had TUNDRA painted on the top of the wing. The Avenger pilot reported he taxied the Avenger south from the warbird parking area toward the P-1 taxiway. He observed the flag person clear him to begin taxiing on Papa taxiway. The Avenger pilot reported that the airplane in front of him was a green and white, high wing airplane with TUNDRA written on top of the wing. He reported that he taxied at a very slow speed with the propeller speed set about 800 RPM. He reported that the Avenger had no mechanical defects and that the brakes were good. The Avenger pilot reported that he observed the Tundra pilot taxi off the right side of the taxiway for some unknown reason. The Avenger pilot reported that he spotted the airplane that was in front of the Tundra airplane, and he stated that he had "100 yards of free pavement" in front of the Avenger. The Avenger pilot reported that when he heard the impact and saw debris flying, he shut down the engine. He reported that he never saw the airplane that he hit while he was taxiing.

Witnesses reported that the Avenger pilot did not make any "S-turns" while taxiing. The distance traveled by the Avenger from the intersection of the P1 taxiway and Papa taxiway to the impact point was about 1,180 feet. The relative speed between the Avenger and RV-6 at impact was calculated to be approximately 6.9 knots. A visibility study of the Avenger and RV-6 was conducted. The visibility study indicated that an "Area of No Visibility" extended from the Avenger's pilot position out to approximately 170 feet.

No part of the RV-6 was visible to the Avenger pilot until it was positioned approximately 170 feet from the pilot in the Avenger.

CAD drawings used in the visibility study demonstrated the following results if an "S-Turn" of 10 degrees was performed on the taxiway: With a turn of 10 degrees, the wing of the RV-6 was visible all the way to the area of impact, and the airplane was never wholly within the Area of No Visibility.

A second visibility study was conducted and it confirmed that portions of the RV-6 could be seen from the cockpit of the Avenger all the way to the area of impact when the Avenger was angled 10-degrees from the taxiway centerline.

The Airplane Flying Handbook states the following about taxiing a tailwheel-equipped airplane: "Since a tailwheel-type airplane rests on the tailwheel as well as the main landing wheels, it assumes a nose-high attitude when on the ground. In most cases this places the engine cowling high enough to restrict the pilot's vision of the area directly ahead of the airplane. Consequently, objects directly ahead of the airplane are difficult, if not impossible, to see. To observe and avoid colliding with any objects or hazardous surface conditions, the pilot should alternately turn the nose from one side to the other-that is zigzag, or make a series of short S-turns while taxiing forward. This should be done slowly, smoothly, positively, and cautiously."

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:

The Avenger pilot's visual lookout was indequate and he failed to maintain clearance from the RV-6. Contributing factors were the Avenger's restricted visibility and the RV-6.

Full narrative available

Index for Jul2006 | Index of months

Link: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20060804X01093

Emphasis added by me. From the NTSB final report,

Please pay attention.

Dale

EDIT: That 170 foot No See distance converts to around a four "car length" following distance. The Avenger is 40 feet long. Not a bit deal. If you, um, Pay Attention...

Edited December 13, 2013 by ScaleDale

[Pete J.]

This accident is no different from other aircraft accidents in that is was a series of events that had any one of the events not happened the ultimate end would have not come about. You can analyze each of the events and try to place blame but ultimately it is the pilots responsibly to operate the aircraft safely and that in the end almost all accidents are laid at the feet of the pilot in command thanks to FAR 91.13 and the NTSB will tell you that. When the NTSB investigates an accident it is for the purpose of finding a way to prevent the accident from happening again. In my mind the major contributing factor aside for the Avenger pilot not doing proper clearing, was allowing a very small aircraft to taxi in front of a very large tail dragger with very limited forward visibility in a very congested area on a narrow taxiway. I would bet good money that this will be addressed at length in the ground handling briefing at the next Oshkosh meet. Taxiing the old tail dragging war birds is a challenge and this should be segregated from the very small aircraft.

One last comment. Some comments were made about there being no wing walkers. I have never seen wing walkers on an active taxiway except when obstacle clearance is an issue. Using wing walkers to maintain clearance from other aircraft who are also taxiing just doesn't happen.

[Daddyfink]

Ummm...no. Here is the full text of the NTSB preliminary investigation report. http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20060804X01093&ntsbno=CHI06FA206B&akey=2

Excerpts: "(A) witness reported that he was walking in the same direction as the Avenger was taxiing, so the witness was focused on watching the Avenger. The witness reported that the Avenger was moving "very slowly and deliberately." He reported that the Avenger did not make any S-turns while it taxied on Papa taxiway. He reported that there were no wing-walkers for the Avenger while it taxied on Papa taxiway. "

"The video indicated that the Avenger was taxiing straight ahead for about 9 - 10 seconds prior to the time of impact and was not making an S-turn. The video indicated that the Avenger pilot was looking forward over the nose of the Avenger as it was taxiing forward prior to impact with the RV-6. "

The investigation further showed that the little RV was invisible to the pilot of the Avenger out to 170 feet. The Avenger pilot reported only seeing the aircraft that was IN FRONT of the little RV.

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Where exactly did you get your information, Mr. Chavez?? It doesn't agree at all with the established facts. Why would you deliberately post something that disagrees with all the eyewitness accounts (except for ONE witness who said the Avenger made ONE S-turn long before the impact) and the NTSB prelim?

Nobody "pulled out in front of" or "veered in front of" anybody.

EDIT: A quick search of the NTSB database failed to turn up the final report.

Well, I was mostly going from memory and should have looked it up again. Thank you for correcting the record! Mr. Engwer!

Maybe you should have posted the circumstances of what happened to go along with the pictures. Or where you not paying attention?

Edited December 13, 2013 by Daddyfink

[Ace-Garageguy]

Well, I was mostly going from memory and should have looked it up again. Thank you for correcting the record! Mr. Engwer!

Maybe you should have posted the circumstances of what happened to go along with the pictures. Or where you not paying attention?

Maybe you should have read ALL my posts, and specifically #7, prior to yours, that DID correctly explain the circumstances. That might qualify as paying attention too, ya think?

It never occurred to me I'd have to cite the text of the NTSB report, which I'd already re-read, to refute some BS, but I had READ the NTSB report BEFORE writing the post, which kinda qualifies as "paying attention to what I write BEFORE I post it".

Ya know, the POINT here was to illustrate how deadly and tragic a moment's inattention can be...to try to make anyone here who happens to see the post THINK for a moment...and MAYBE DO SOME GOOD...and some folks STILL want to turn it into an argument party. I don't effing get it.

Check your facts FIRST, THEN post. Oh wait...I forgot...this IS the internet.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Daddyfink]

Where in post seven is the NTSB report? And yes, citing information with an image can explain the situation rather easily before causing all types of emotions. Otherwise it is just shock value.

And where does it state that this is an old accident? Just asking!

[slusher]

Very sad. Lives changed forever...