Will GM's problems ever end?

[martinfan5]

All manufacturers have recalls. Not all manufacturers actively hide the problems from the public and continue on doing "business as usual." That is why GM is on the hotseat.

That is the issue at hand, and why this is such a bigger deal then other recalls from other manufacturers

[Dave Van]

This is not a 'I hate GM' thread......this is 'look how this corporation, that we trust our children and our own lives to, really doesn't care what happens to us. It's a symptom of a much larger, bigger than GM, problem for the USA.....

I'll say it again....if this was a cell phone manufacture they would be closing the doors today....no one would ever touch their product again.

[martinfan5]

I'll say it again....if this was a cell phone manufacture they would be closing the doors today....no one would ever touch their product again.

I have to think you are right about that

[sjordan2]

Just to amplify what I implied a few posts ago, EVERY manufacturer of ANYTHING faces ridiculous pressure from management to get products to market as quickly as possible. Some management is smarter than others.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Faulty ignition switches, overheating exhaust systems, seat belts and air bags that don't work as they should, electric steering boxes going bad, etc... just a few of the current problems covered by GM recalls this year.

If bad engineering and bad design aren't the cause, then what is? Cost-cutting probably plays a part, of course... but it would seem to me that poor engineering and/or design has to be a part of at least some of these recalls. It can't all just be el cheapo parts.

EXACTLY.

Most of the problems seem to stem from the stuff that's manufactured in Mexico and China. But don't quote me on that. I've never been a fan of out sourcing, and this kind of cements my thoughts.

News flash: It doesn't matter a damm WHERE a part is made as long as there is a REAL quality-assurance program in place, and the offshore manufacturers are HELD ACCOUNTABLE for making parts TO SPEC (which MANY MANY OFFSHORE PARTS MISS). What this means is that POOR QUALITY PARTS ARE NOT ACCEPTED, and ARE RETURNED. 2 times and you NO LONGER CONTRACT TO GM, or whoever you're making stuff for.

Quality-assurance needs SOME TEETH, and more than the idiotic pencil-whipping paperwork piles that are today's norm. A pile of paper does NOT guarantee a decent part.

[Ace-Garageguy]

This is not a 'I hate GM' thread... It's a symptom of a much larger, bigger than GM, problem for the USA.....

YES.

[Harry P.]

Oh oh. Can it be true? Now Chrysler, too–for the same problem!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/06/18/chrysler-ignition-investigation-nhtsa/10741315/

[Chuck Most]

I'll say it again....if this was a cell phone manufacture they would be closing the doors today....no one would ever touch their product again.

Unless that cell phone company was Apple... they have the slavish devotion of iPhone users on their side.

[Longbox55]

I wouldn't be surprised if those switched weren't sourced from the same supplier. Not saying they were, just that it is a possibility.

It's somewhat like the Toyota unintended acceleration issue. It's not common knowledge, but Ford and Honda both had recalls for the same problem (the numbers were much lower, and the Fords were mostly European export models), with the parts having been sourced from the same company Toyota had got theirs from.

[Harry P.]

But the thing we have to remember is this: a recall is one thing. Hiding a known problem for years (as GM did) is a whole 'nother matter.

Your run-of-the-mill recall isn't going to catch Congress' interest. But what GM did will.

[Joe Handley]

Oh oh. Can it be true? Now Chrysler, toofor the same problem!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/06/18/chrysler-ignition-investigation-nhtsa/10741315/

Hmmm, happened right as they went from Daimler to Cerberus and seems to stop as Fiat took over............ From what I've seen in the two '06 Mopars we've had, that's not a shock.

[bobthehobbyguy]

The sad thing is people lost thier lives because of this. Workers that had no part in this will lose jobs, stock holders wil lose money. However the people who created this problem won't be punished. I bet the CEO got his big golden parachute. All of this because of greed.

[Joe Handley]

Bob has a point, wonder how many of those who were involved in this made it through the Bankrupcy/Bailout and still work there or got a nice fat retirement before all this went down...........

[ranma]

Harry, GM is not the first to hide problems and know that the parts were substandard, FORD did the same Thing with the pinto . Ford knew That the gas tanks were not right they even had three different ideas to resolve this matter just after production of the pinto had started. one idea was a rubber bladder made by good year that worked but was rejected because it cost just over $5.00. And according to the information that I read Ford had gas tank problems before this. FORD's President got rearened and his tank opened and caught fire he got out without being harmed. He addressed this to Ford so it wouldn't happen again This was a few years before the PINTO! Bottom line FORD knew and sold the cars anyway. Just as GM knew and sold cars anyway. Even though 8 of the 11 crash test Pintos gas tanks ruptured 3 did not due to safety devises that were done to the tanks. again this test was done just as production had already started!

See: HOW STUFF WORKS THE PINTO CONTORVERSY

Edited June 19, 2014 by ranma

[johnbuzzed]

Rick, you don't seem to understand that nobody here is bashing GM out of brand or manufacturer loyalty. There is/was a major problem at GM with cover-ups, CYA, throw-you-under-the-bus, pass the buck, etc. This is a problem with the current corporate environment in our nation and with our methods of communication the information spread faster than it would have in the past. The emphasis now is to make as much $$$ as possible, however possible. The bottom line and the shareholders interests rule. Also, too many corporations are trying "philosophies" such as 5S, lean manufacturing, Six Sigma, etc, in hopes that these will fix their woes. In some instances they might, to a degree, but they are no true cures. They're smoke and mirrors; image and appearance counts more than quality and workmanship. It seems that executives and management, many of whom probably have no practical, hands-on experience, no longer have pride in turning out a quality product that will last a long time. People died as a result of the actions by GM personnel, and I wonder if any criminal charges, such as "criminally negligent homicide", might arise.

This is true in all types of industry here and not just manufacturing. Why are people at airport gates told that their flight is full and there is no room for them on the aircraft even though they have reservations for that flight? Why couldn't my cable be routed on my property correctly the first time? Why did all those vets have to wait so long for medical appointments? But, I digress. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT ANY MANUFACTURER IS PURE AND HAS NEVER HAD A RECALL OF ANY TYPE FOR ANY REASON. I guess you just don't like Fords.

Edited June 19, 2014 by johnbuzzed

[bobthehobbyguy]

John I agree 100 percent. GM is just an example of what can happen with the current corporate mentality. In most cases the decisions aren't causing deaths but it is costing people jobs.

[mistermodel]

One thing hasn't changed in my 30+ years of caring about cars.The GM camp is still very sensitive about their favorite brand of vehicles.

[Modelmartin]

A random thought that may be tangentially related to this thread:

I wonder about the increasingly high expectations that people have for the safety of everything we encounter in life. Parts can and do wear and break. Accidents occur even under the best of circumstances. It seems people want guarantees for everything in life and something bad happens it is a scandal. People usually miss the real scandals in life but that is a different topic.

Who has seen the Infiniti TV commercial with the ditzy handsome driver tooling down the road with his mind wandering all over the place and his car is chiming when he drifts out of his lane and braking for him when he doesn't notice he is about to ram a truck. That is frightening. I can not believe that they are promoting a car that way. They seem to be saying, "Go ahead. Pay no attention to the road. We will take care of it for you!" I will take driverless Google cars over that garbage any day!

[Harry P.]

Who has seen the Infiniti TV commercial with the ditzy handsome driver tooling down the road with his mind wandering all over the place and his car is chiming when he drifts out of his lane and braking for him when he doesn't notice he is about to ram a truck. That is frightening. I can not believe that they are promoting a car that way. They seem to be saying, "Go ahead. Pay no attention to the road. We will take care of it for you!" I will take driverless Google cars over that garbage any day!

My thoughts exactly! I couldn't believe I was seeing what I was seeing... a totally clueless driver being "saved" by his gadget-laden car! Agreed, a very odd marketing strategy.

And the crazy tagline... something about the car watches out for danger so you have more time to drive or some such nonsense.

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7DFD/infiniti-q50-distracted-driving

[johnbuzzed]

What will happen when those wonderful devices break? WHAM!!!, right into that truck! It will happen. Stuff does break and electrons do not always flow as we would like.

[ranma]

Rick, you don't seem to understand that nobody here is bashing GM out of brand or manufacturer loyalty. There is/was a major problem at GM with cover-ups, CYA, throw-you-under-the-bus, pass the buck, etc. This is a problem with the current corporate environment in our nation and with our methods of communication the information spread faster than it would have in the past. The emphasis now is to make as much $$$ as possible, however possible. The bottom line and the shareholders interests rule. Also, too many corporations are trying "philosophies" such as 5S, lean manufacturing, Six Sigma, etc, in hopes that these will fix their woes. In some instances they might, to a degree, but they are no true cures. They're smoke and mirrors; image and appearance counts more than quality and workmanship. It seems that executives and management, many of whom probably have no practical, hands-on experience, no longer have pride in turning out a quality product that will last a long time. People died as a result of the actions by GM personnel, and I wonder if any criminal charges, such as "criminally negligent homicide", might arise.

This is true in all types of industry here and not just manufacturing. Why are people at airport gates told that their flight is full and there is no room for them on the aircraft even though they have reservations for that flight? Why couldn't my cable be routed on my property correctly the first time? Why did all those vets have to wait so long for medical appointments? But, I digress. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT ANY MANUFACTURER IS PURE AND HAS NEVER HAD A RECALL OF ANY TYPE FOR ANY REASON. I guess you just don't like Fords.

and how many died in the Pinto's? I understand that's why I wrote that GM is not alone in negelgence And the fact that Ford had a lawsuit in Indiana for homicide. Like I said FORD knew the pinto wasn't safe by their own test. Just as Gm knew the ignition problem but if you look at the data Only 13 crashes resulted in death and of those 13 most were teenage drivers whome didn't have the experience to adapt to an engine being shutoff. most older drivers would : shift into (N) restart engine and back into drive. There was a test done on a Saturn the driver done everything to get the switch to fail he succeeded when he put to much on the key chain causing the key to pull down and shut the car off, He did the shift into N and restarted the car. Also a total of less than 100 cars had this happen out of millions sold. Same can be said about the pinto, or the Eco boost problem's It's not band loyalty induced it's just the fact as it's a Fact that Demo derby drivers like the early 70's gm wagons, or the 64 imperial's and now the ford Crown vic. Every auto maker have faults. Look at what the big three did to Preston Tucker! all because he made a safer car! the man innovated the laminated windshield, padded dash, seat belts, Disk break's and more. all before the seatbelt became manditory. all these safety added things we now have in every car made.

[mistermodel]

Only 13???????I guess a stink shouldn't be made until 1300

[Harry P.]

A few interesting details from GM CEO Mary Barra's appearance before Congress yesterday (July 18, 2014)...

From Reuters News Agency:

GM Chief Executive Mary Barra faced tough questions about widespread safety failures at GM in her third public appearance before Congress since the automaker started recalling millions of vehicles in February.

U.S. lawmakers on Wednesday accused General Motors of a "disturbing pattern" of neglecting safety, and revealed emails from 2005 in which a GM employee warned a "big recall" may be necessary over an ignition-switch problem that was only addressed this week.

In the emails made public on Wednesday, GM employee Laura Andres in 2005 sent one to engineers warning that a 2006 Chevy Impala Special car she was driving had experienced an engine stall when moving between a paved road and gravel. She said a technician had advised the problem may be with part of the ignition switch. "I think this is a serious safety problem, especially if this switch is on multiple programs (multiple GM models). I'm thinking big recall," Andres said in an email sent to 11 other GM employees including the vice president of North American engineering.

The 2006 Impala was not recalled until Monday of this week, as part of an additional 3 million cars that GM recalled for an ignition-switch issue.

Another familiar name on the Andres email chain was former GM engineer Ray DeGiorgio, one of the 15 employees pushed out (in the wake of the recall scandal). The former company engineer initially approved an ignition switch design for the Cobalt that did not meet company specifications. He later approved a redesign without changing the part number, an unheard-of move in the industry.

[mistermodel]

Not sure why GM or any of the others didn't learn from FORD not dealing with a saftey issue like exploding pintos.history does repeat its self

[ranma]

Only 13???????I guess a stink shouldn't be made until 1300

Pinto had 27