Best selling cars (and truck) of all time

[Harry P.]

Argh! You are right, old Beetle production didn't end until new Beetle was being produced. You just wanted company in the "doddering fool" category.

Welcome aboard!

[Rob Hall]

What I wouldn't count is retreads. Cars like Impala that went out of production, and many years later they dusted off the name again. Add Dodge Dart and Challenger, Camaro, New Beetle, New Mini, Chrysler Town & Country and a bunch of others.

Doesn't really matter if there is a production gap...the Camaro is still the Camaro. The New Mini started the year after the original Mini ended, but I probably would count it and the original as distinct because of the branding..

Edited July 10, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Rob Hall]

Hmm..the edit feature isn't working. As far as the Beetle, I'd consider the original (which was never named Beetle), the New Beetle and the Beetle (New New current car) as 3 distinct models because of the 3 distinct names. Though the New Beetle and New New could be argued as 2 generations rather than distinct. But I'd consider the Challenger 1 model w/ 3 generations, the Charger 1 model w/ 7 generations (the gaps don't matter, IMO).

Edited July 10, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Harry P.]

As far as the Beetle, I'd consider the original (which was never named Beetle)

Volkswagen factory brochure from 1976...

http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/Volkswagen/Beetle/VW_US%20Beetle_1976.pdf

Welcome to the Doddering Fool's Club. We've been saving you a seat.

[Rob Hall]

Volkswagen factory brochure from 1976...

Interesting...always thought 'Beetle' was a nickname on the old models and was officially named the VW 1600 or similar..

[Tom Geiger]

As far as the Beetle, I'd consider the original (which was never named Beetle),

Hmmm... maybe the first time a manufacturer adapted the slang name for their product.. (oh, I know someone will post something earlier, this is just bait for that)

The next time is White Castle "Sliders". The burgers became sliders in slang because they slid right through your digestive tract, often exiting unexpectedly and rapidly. I thought it was very funny when I first heard their commercial, kinda like admiting the anti-medicinal value of their product. Now "Slider" is generic slang for any small burger... beef, chicken, barbecue beef etc. no doubt accepted by folks too young or ignorant to understand the origins.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Rob Hall]

The next time is White Castle "Sliders". The burgers became sliders in slang because they slid right through your digestive tract, often exiting unexpectedly and rapidly. I thought it was very funny when I first heard their commercial, kinda like admiting the anti-medicinal value of their product. Now "Slider" is generic slang for any small burger... beef, chicken, barbecue beef etc. no doubt accepted by folks too young or ignorant to understand the origins.

I remember as a kid hearing my older brother explain the origin of that name..he also called them 'gut bombs'..

The bar my company frequents for happy hour in Tempe has beef, chicken, and pulled pork ones..we usually order a few rounds, they go down well w/ a pint or two of brew...

Edited July 10, 2014 by Rob Hall

[Tom Geiger]

I remember as a kid hearing my older brother explain the origin of that name..he also called them 'gut bombs'..

Yea, we'd describe it as a restroom theme restaurant, all done in white bathroom tile. Figured there should have been 4 toilets around each table.... what a visual!

[Joe Handley]

Yea, we'd describe it as a restroom theme restaurant, all done in white bathroom tile. Figured there should have been 4 toilets around each table.... what a visual!

DANG YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I'm having trouble breathing!

[Danno]

Welcome aboard!

Rob has assigned quite a few of us to the Doddering Old Fools Club. It's kind of satisfying to see him establishing a Middle-Aged Fools Division.

[Brett Barrow]

VW brochure from 1970, earliest one I've found that uses "Beetle", though a few earlier made mention of "bug" or "Bug".

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/70cdnfullline.php

By 71 with the introduction of the Super Beetle it was pretty much in all English VW literature. But I'm sure in Germany they were always officially "Type 1" or whatever...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/71whatyearisit.php

Edited July 10, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[johnbuzzed]

I would think when nothing interchanges anymore.

I would say when the platform is changed it is a different car. One Example: A Chevelle is the same car from 64 through 77 despite wheelbase and body changes. They downsized it in 78.

Consider the different Charger variations or "generations" through the years.

[Skip]

I am quite surprised that the Mini is not on that list. With a production run from 1959 to 2000, badged under several different BMC nameplates like Austin, Morris, Rover and variants Riley, Woolseley... Nearly every British driver during that run either had one, or drove at least one. Imported through-ought the United Kingdom, U.S. (Until 1967), Japan. All four Beetles, Enzo Ferrari, Peter Sellers, Twiggy, Steve McQueen, Clint Eastwood, Paul Newman, James Garner, Jackie Stewart, Britt Ekland all owned Mini's. Not to mention the bazillion other non-famous owners. Have to wonder also if the 5 - 6 million production numbers were for the domestically produced Mini's excluding those produced in Australia and a few other foreign market countries.

I can see the Model T on that list, Ford's high volume assembly and long production run saw to that, same with the VW Beetle. The Passat?

[1930fordpickup]

As long as they do not sell a front drive and a rear drive in the same year they still count. As long as the auto evolves into something new acrossed the board with the name let the numbers roll. If it is the same car in every market you can count the total sales numbers as the same running total, but if you are selling last years cars in a different country I think not.

[Art Anderson]

All of this thread is interesting, of course, but let's take a look at some numbers that really tell the tale, as to which car was truly the best selling car of all time. Some things to ponder here:

1) The number of cars on the road.

2) Yearly automobile production.

3) Percentage of annual sales achieved by the best-selling car in a given year.

1) By 1910, there were 458,500 automobiles on the road in the US, far more than in any other single country on the planet.

2) Ford Motor Company sold 32,053 Model T's that year. By 1912, and the opening of their Highland Park MI plant, Ford had a production capacity of 26,000 cars a month, or in excess of 300,000 cars a year, and by year's end, fully 75% of all cars on the road in the US were Fords. In 1914, Ford sold 308,313 Model T's, all produced in Highland Park. (GM very nearly went bankrupt in 1912, Ford announced the industry's first rebate --$50 to each buyer of a new '14 Model T if the company sold at least 300,000 cars that year, and Ford sent out a $50 check to each new 1914 T buyer, my grandfather got one of those checks). In 1915, the US automobile production to over 800,000. The number of cars in the US reached 2,000,000. In 1915, Willys-Overland was the 2nd largest US automobile company, producing 91,780 cars. In 1916, US automobile production passed the 1 million mark and Ford sold 734,811 Model T's. (by 1917, the total number of cars on US roads was 4.8 million, the rest of the World combined had just 720,000 cars.

3) In 1921, Ford held what was to be the largest share of the US market of any automaker since--some 61% of all cars built in the US were Model T's (GM had just 12%, and once more, was nearly driven into bankruptcy). By 1924, the production of the Model T was just shy of 2,000,000 cars, and held the highest market share of any car, all over the World, with more than 50% of all cars everywhere being Fords.

I would submit, that while other specific models of cars have surpassed the production figures above, as the worldwide production and sales of cars grew since 1924, no single model of automobile has ever achieved anything like the percentage of total production (in the mass production era which still goes forward) nor the market penetration and market share achieved by the Model T Ford. And all of this happened in a time when there were vastly more companies/makes of automobiles than at any time since.

Art

[Harry P.]

The most amazing stat is that at one time, more than half of all cars on earth were Fords!

Now that's dominating the market!

[Danno]

That's dominating ALL the markets!

Yeah, I'd say the Model T deserves the all-time title. Art makes a compelling argument.

[Harry P.]

Did you know that Ford continued to manufacture Model T engines until 1941?

[Harry P.]

Model T American market share:

http://web.bryant.edu/~ehu/h364proj/fall_98/coppola/marketshare.html

[Art Anderson]

Did you know that Ford continued to manufacture Model T engines until 1941?

Yes--Ford produced Model T engines all the way out to our entry in WW-II, in part due to Henry Ford's insistence that replacement parts be readily available for the Model T (and subsequent cars as well), apparently in his mind, in perpetuity (Ford of Canada continued to offer the 21-stud 85hp flathead V8 through the late 1980's as well!).

Another major reason for such longevity of production was the use of Model T, Model A and flathead V8's for industrial purposes (saw mills, feed mills, even small narrow-gauge railroad locomotives--primarily in logging) for years, even decades after the cars they were designed for had ceased production.

Ford wasn't alone in this, either. As late as 1960 (possibly later), Chevrolet was still cataloging parts for virtually every era of Chevrolet engine ever built, all the way back to the early 'teens, now a good century ago.

Art

[sjordan2]

Ford wasn't alone in this, either. As late as 1960 (possibly later), Chevrolet was still cataloging parts for virtually every era of Chevrolet engine ever built, all the way back to the early 'teens, now a good century ago.

Art

However, as of six years ago, Chevy no longer had the parts to replace the nose and hatch on my '93 Corvette. Plus, the dealer put me in a Catch-22 -- they could only use Genuine GM Parts and not salvage parts, but there were no GM Parts. I eventually tracked down the parts on my own.

[Brett Barrow]

Another major reason for such longevity of production was the use of Model T, Model A and flathead V8's for industrial purposes (saw mills, feed mills, even small narrow-gauge railroad locomotives--primarily in logging) for years, even decades after the cars they were designed for had ceased production.

Art

My grandad used to have a flathead Ford V-8 powered portable welder, but I believe it was built contemporary to the flattie's production.

[Harry P.]

However, as of six years ago, Chevy no longer had the parts to replace the nose and hatch on my '93 Corvette. Plus, the dealer put me in a Catch-22 -- they could only use Genuine GM Parts and not salvage parts, but there were no GM Parts. I eventually tracked down the parts on my own.

Hey, at least it hasn't been recalled. Yet.

[Art Anderson]

My grandad used to have a flathead Ford V-8 powered portable welder, but I believe it was built contemporary to the flattie's production.

I was very intrigued by the aircompressor I saw at the Towe Ford Museum in Sacramento in 1998--it was a Ford flathead V8, with every other cylinder converted (through the use of ingeniously designed cylinder heads) to compressing air! One head had spark plugs in it's front and rear cylinders, the opposite head using sparkplugs in the two middle cylinders.

While it would have run quite well, with a regular, evenly paced firing order and exhaust note, it had to have been one vibrating SOB!

Art

[Mark]

However, as of six years ago, Chevy no longer had the parts to replace the nose and hatch on my '93 Corvette. Plus, the dealer put me in a Catch-22 -- they could only use Genuine GM Parts and not salvage parts, but there were no GM Parts. I eventually tracked down the parts on my own.

I remember a few years ago, a lady I knew owned a '99 Impala and GM couldn't supply a hanger for the exhaust system. I'm not sure if an aftermarket part was available. This was a while ago, the car was about five or six years old at the time.

The manufacturers only have to supply body and trim parts for a certain length of time. My niece's '03 Cavalier was hit hard in the front when it was two or three years old. Even at that time, the choice was between a used front fascia or an aftermarket piece that didn't look exactly like the OEM piece. GM couldn't/wouldn't supply a new one. And the used one was hard to find, because most salvage yards wouldn't break up a complete front end to sell the bumper. If I remember right, they did locate a used one.

If the dealer will use only GM parts, that sounds like a self-imposed rule to me. As far as I'm concerned, if they want the job they can supply the parts to do the job.

Insurance companies are another matter. Someone nailed the rear bumper on my '04 Dakota when it was about two years old. Insurance company can specify used parts (in NY) if the vehicle is not the current model year, and/or has more than a few thousand miles on it. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't find a used one in good condition, so they had to spring for a new one in my case.