GM is at it again!

[Ace-Garageguy]

haters gonna hate....

Yup, I hate people who get paid a LOT of money to engineer and design GOOD products, but are either too friggin' lazy or too stupid to get it right...and the management philosophy that seems to think it's OK.

May be YOU can turn out second-rate trash, consistently, and get paid for it. I can't.

[ranma]

Well that ignition problem has now been found in dodge journey 's now My mother got her recall notice today about it possiably turning off the engine like GM"s

[dieseldawg142]

...........

Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142

[Ace-Garageguy]

..my whole point, dont matter who or where your car came from, EVERYONE has the same problems...

... ALL the auto man. live in glass houses....(but their name is not GM)

Agreed entirely, and several people have said this isn't so much a "hate on GM" issue as it is a WIDESPREAD problem in the industry as a whole.

Look at how much the engineers, designers, managers and execs get paid.

THEY GET PAID ENOUGH TO GET IT RIGHT.

But until consumers start screaming loudly enough about competent design and parts-sourcing, the FIRST time, nothing is going to change.

[Art Anderson]

Agreed entirely, and several people have said this isn't so much a "hate on GM" issue as it is a WIDESPREAD problem in the industry as a whole.

Look at how much the engineers, designers, managers and execs get paid.

THEY GET PAID ENOUGH TO GET IT RIGHT.

But until consumers start screaming loudly enough about competent design and parts-sourcing, the FIRST time, nothing is going to change.

But, they all seem to get nailed by the bean counters, who only consider costs!

Makes me glad I never went for my MBA!

Art

[Craig Irwin]

Let's see, how long has it been since GM closed it's tech school, GMI?

[johnbuzzed]

But, they all seem to get nailed by the bean counters, who only consider costs!

Makes me glad I never went for my MBA!

Art

Art's right. I saw similar problems at a previous job; the engineers advised better parts and designs to be used in/on the equipment, but the cost to incorporate them into production would be higher; ergo, they were not used- the bean counters won. The products went out to customers with the lesser quality design and parts, problems arose; warranty repairs and exchanges were made, and engineering upgrades/revisions for the redesign with the better parts were put in place for all future production- all that ado cost a lot more than the additional $100 or so per unit had the engineers advice been heeded initially. One must not forget the reputation of the company. Bad words get around much faster than praise, and that can mean loss of revenue, too. At least, that company did learn from their mistakes, albeit slowly. Seems like some never do.

Too many bean counters have too much control without practical experience. But in today's world, the bottom line on the $pread$heet is all that matter$.

[Ace-Garageguy]

But in today's world, the bottom line on the $pread$heet is all that matter$.

I wonder if product liability insurance or something similar helps to defray the massive expenditures GM must be facing with all the recalls.

If not, I'm thinking the bottom line isn't going to look so hot compared to what it would have been if a few more bucks had been spent up front.

I also wonder if they'll figure out that it's always cheaper to get it right the first time, or just spend so much time apportioning blame that the big message gets lost in the squabble.

[Deano]

I wonder if product liability insurance or something similar helps to defray the massive expenditures GM must be facing with all the recalls.

If not, I'm thinking the bottom line isn't going to look so hot compared to what it would have been if a few more bucks had been spent up front.

Ah, but rework and repair comes out of a different "line item" in the budget. Bean counters are usually very good at manipulating numbers.

I also wonder if they'll figure out that it's always cheaper to get it right the first time, or just spend so much time apportioning blame that the big message gets lost in the squabble.

Nah. I started at GM in 1985 (left in 2000) and they weren't too concerned about getting it right the first time. They were always sending crews out to the back lot to do repairs. It was always fun (and I would have to assume "cost effective") to do a repair on something installed early in the trim shop after the vehicle had left final assembly.

[Tom Geiger]

Sometimes it's just the disconnects in a large company. I'm in a seminar this week and the instructor related a story...

A manufacturer of engines rewarded employees for cost cutting suggestions. A worker submitted a suggestion that they replace a stainless steal throttle spring with a common spring and that showed a cost savings of $15,000 a year. The suggestion was celebrated and the fellow received 10%, a check for $1500, for his efforts.

In a short time, boats using this engine started crashing into docks. What they hadn't considered was that this spring was used in marine applications, and with salt exposure, the common spring turned to powder in a short time... thus the original thinking of using the stainless spring! When the spring failed, the engine accelerated. The fail was that production had implemented the change without a full engineering review. Had the design engineers been asked to comment, one of them would have objected!

That's how stuff happens in corporations...

Edited September 24, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Ace-Garageguy]

...The fail was that production had implemented the change without a full engineering review. Had the design engineers been asked to comment, one of them would have objected!

That's how stuff happens in corporations...

Yes, and since this is pretty well widespread knowledge, widespread enough for instructors to be using it to illustrate corporate-internal-communication-disconnect, why hasn't it been addressed as energetically as building mountains of worthless paper with ISO compliance?

[Daddyfink]

[Joe Handley]

They don't have to, their cars burn up right off the assembly line

http://www.torquenews.com/1081/ford-reveals-alarming-fire-details-involving-2013-escape-and-announces-special-handling-affected-owners

[High octane]

Really?

[Joe Handley]

Yup, happened right after I bought my 200 (1 recall so far, still getting notices for my long dead Grand Cherokee though), and I couldn't believe that when I first read it either.

[Dave Van]

I read that Road & Track is reporting that a good number of new Vettes, including the cars GM gave them for testing, have blown motors due to defective oil filters. They blew their car up....and discovered they were not the only one.

67million is inexcusable in anyone's world.

My job, before I retired, was a IT Senior System Analyst for a top 5 bank. I made sure every night that the computers end results were 100% correct.

We were not allowed any errors. Errors caused you to lose your job.

Let's look at it this way..........

The computer makes a $1 error to 50% of the accounts each night. No one should hold us responsible for $1 million a day lost due to 'things beyond our control', right??? It's just a dollar error......can't buy coffee for that!!!!

Or 67 million iPhones are recalled today. People would riot in the streets. Storm the Apple store and burn it down. Demand the government investigate. Most would vow to switch to another brand.

If each recall takes 30 minutes start to finish......how long will it take GM to repair the cars at 33.5 million man hours......makes my head spin.

I have a feeling most of us here are held to a higher standard in our jobs than GM is being held to.

[Mark]

If General Motors built commercial airliners, would you fly on one?

[johnbuzzed]

Yup, happened right after I bought my 200 (1 recall so far, still getting notices for my long dead Grand Cherokee though), and I couldn't believe that when I first read it either.

A Ford "200"...? Maybe that was the problem. Otherwise, Chrysler builds the 200.

Yes, and since this is pretty well widespread knowledge, widespread enough for instructors to be using it to illustrate corporate-internal-communication-disconnect, why hasn't it been addressed as energetically as building mountains of worthless paper with ISO compliance?

The adoption or adapting to such philosophies as 5s, Lean, Six Sigma, et al, probably has done nothing for US corporations except get them to spend money on pretentious administrative work which wasted production time. Whatever happened to just plain old common sense? Whatever happened to the phrase: "Everything I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten." ?

[DonW]

I always buy second hand cars as did my dad - because new ones are so unreliable!

The one car he did buy new was a Reliant Scimitar for my mum - that had three replacement rear axles under warranty, which at least gave the dealers time to stick back the bits of interior trim that kept falling off.

Oh and I always buy BMWs! They still seem to have the radical philosophy of employing more engineers than bean-counters.

Edited September 24, 2014 by DonW

[redrod99]

My neighbor has a new 2014 fully loaded Impala and has 6 recalls.Last one was brakes dragging.Pretty car,though.

Edited September 24, 2014 by redrod99

[jbwelda]

I believe I read today that GM was going to spin Cadillac off into its own brand or some kind of marketing BS like that.

does that mean the next step for Cadillac is off the pier?

jb

[Mark]

I believe I read today that GM was going to spin Cadillac off into its own brand or some kind of marketing BS like that.

does that mean the next step for Cadillac is off the pier?

jb

As I understand it, Cadillac's headquarters are going to be moved to New York City. Supposedly, that's going to put them more "in touch" with their clientele. Doesn't the average New Yorker think of a car as being yellow and having a light on the roof, and driving past them while they walk to the subway?

They're wasting their effort trying to compete with the high-end imports...most of those buyers won't consider a Cadillac no matter how good it is, simply because of its brand name.

[Ace-Garageguy]

...they're wasting their effort trying to compete with the high-end imports...most of those buyers won't consider a Cadillac no matter how good it is, simply because of its brand name.

All the marketing department has to do is come up with an oh-so-hip-and-with-it-nickname like "Bimmer" and "Benz" and they're a shoe-in.

Somehow, "Caddy" just doesn't cut it anymore at the country club.

It wouldn't hurt their image at all if they'd go back to LeMans and win, too. Heck...if they could pull that off (and GM certainly made the world finally take the Corvette seriously that way), I'd buy one (I'll have plenty of time to save up while I wait for hell to freeze over).

Edited September 25, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[om617]

Ford recalls 850050 models because of safety issues.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1409-ford-recalls-850050-models-including-c-max-fusion-escape/

[unclescott58]

With the news about Ford's recall, it doesn't look like this holds true. And it goes to prove you shouldn't listen to the villian. They're never right.

There's an old saying. If you point a finger at someone, you'll find three fingers pointing back at you.

Scott

Edited September 28, 2014 by unclescott58