1/25 Revell Ford Del Rio Ranch Wagon 2'n'1

[Ace-Garageguy]

Once again, the relatively small problems this kit may possibly have are not going to keep me from buying several.

But there's a principle here...one that is important.

The companies that produce these things are capable of excellence. They give us excellence more often than not, and it's appreciated by modelers everywhere.

But anyone who has the audacity to point out something that could have been done better on ANY kit, whether it's a glaring error (like a gross mistake in the height of a roof) or something relatively small, is attacked by the "good-enough" contingent of hobby "defenders", called names, and generally vilified.

What, exactly, is the problem many of you have with expecting paid professionals to do their jobs correctly, consistently?

[Ace-Garageguy]

For gods sake, its a model kit not brain surgery

And MANUFACTURING the model kit is a JOB for the people involved.

WHAT IS UNREASONABLE and self-righteous about expecting people to do the JOBS they're paid to do ???

Edited June 27, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Guest]

I do agree that the manufacturers should be paying a bit more attention to detail, I just don't know that minor issues are worth a big fuss.

[Brett Barrow]

If their bosses are happy with the jobs they're doing and continue to employ them then who are we to say? If that job is to provide a reasonable replica developed over a reasonable timeframe for a reasonable price that pleases a majority of modelers then I think they're doing a good job. If that job is to provide an exacting replica without regard to time or price that pleases even the most discerning of modelers then I don't think they're doing a very good job but maybe that isn't the job they set out to do. Ultimately it's up to each one of us to determine if it meets our standards. If it does, we buy it. If it doesn't, we don't...

[thatz4u]

I suggest a 57 Ranchwagon build off to show the rest of us how it's done right with all your many talents & skills.

[Luc Janssens]

If their bosses are happy with the jobs they're doing and continue to employ them then who are we to say? If that job is to provide a reasonable replica developed over a reasonable timeframe for a reasonable price that pleases a majority of modelers then I think they're doing a good job. If that job is to provide an exacting replica without regard to time or price that pleases even the most discerning of modelers then I don't think they're doing a very good job but maybe that isn't the job they set out to do. Ultimately it's up to each one of us to determine if it meets our standards. If it does, we buy it. If it doesn't, we don't...

Well defined Brett.

Think Revell is Chevy or Ford, not Rolls Royce

[Ace-Garageguy]

Well defined Brett.

Think Revell is Chevy or Ford, not Rolls Royce

You guys act like measuring accurately is some kind of way-out-there technology, or magic skill, that's somehow cost-prohibitive.

IT DOESN'T TAKE ANY MORE TIME OR MONEY TO MEASURE ACCURATELY, AND DO IT ONCE.

[Luc Janssens]

You guys act like measuring accurately is some kind of way-out-there technology, or magic skill, that's somehow cost-prohibitive.

IT DOESN'T TAKE ANY MORE TIME OR MONEY TO MEASURE ACCURATELY, AND DO IT ONCE.

My advice to you, go to Revell present yourself as the best design engineer know to man.

http://www.revell.com/jobs.html

Also do call me, when you're a year or so into the job, to know how well you do.

Am I being sarcastic, you betcha!

Best regards

Luc Janssens

Belgium

Edited June 27, 2015 by Luc Janssens

[Ace-Garageguy]

My advice to you, go to Revell present yourself as the best design engineer know to man.

http://www.revell.com/jobs.html

Also do call me, when you're a year or so into the job, to know how well you do.

Am I being sarcastic, you betcha!

Best regards

Luc Janssens

Belgium

And I love to see you getting you head banged to a concrete wall everytime things don't work out or the budget runs out, in fact I

Funny thing is, I function as a design-engineer day in, day out, every working day. Do you?

Besides my designs having to look good, they also have fit in limited spaces, and to function as parts of REAL cars and aircraft, in a real-world environment.

They're not copies of things that have been made before, either. Each thing I come up with AND make with my own two hands, is a unique solution to a particular functional and packaging problem.

Somehow I manage to pull it all together.

I'm obviously an ignorant no-talent idiot, so if I can do it, it shouldn't be too hard to find people who can measure something that ALREADY EXISTS and DOESN'T HAVE TO FUNCTION, and divide the measurements by whatever scale they're working in.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ju Ju]

Funny thing is, I function as a design-engineer day in, day out, every working day. Do you?

Besides my designs having to look good, they also have fit in limited spaces, and to function as parts of REAL cars and aircraft, in a real-world environment.

They're not copies of things that have been made before, either. Each thing I come up with AND make with my own two hands, is a unique solution to a particular functional and packaging problem.

Somehow I manage to pull it all together.

I'm obviously an ignorant no-talent idiot, so if I can do it, it shouldn't be too hard to find people who can measure something that ALREADY EXISTS and DOESN'T HAVE TO FUNCTION, and divide the measurements by whatever scale they're working in.

I never get tired of reading how smart and talented you are, Bill

[Sledsel]

I am with Ace.... Measuring is not some far out, just learning technology. Also, photography is so much better now. Even without a 1:1 car to look at, photos can tell you 1000 things. Heck, I pointed to flaws with photos, no measuring.

So why are there so many very accurate looking 50-60 year old kits

Yes, it is only a model, but they are not really cheap either. The case with me and the 57 Custom was that with the flaws, (seen on the box and in builds here) I did not buy any. I may have purchased many if not for the evident things wrong visually.

Am I the only one? Probably not.

Now that I pinpointed the wonky heavy front end issue, I may get one, but only one. The fixes in the body will just consume too much time (for me)

[Ace-Garageguy]

I never get tired of reading how smart and talented you are, Bill

And I never get tired of you guys constantly willfully missing the point entirely, and trying to make my comments seem like bragging rather than what I'm actually saying...

MEASURING IS NOT DIFFICULT. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN DO IT.

[Luc Janssens]

Funny thing is, I function as a design-engineer day in, day out, every working day. Do you?

Besides my designs having to look good, they also have fit in limited spaces, and to function as parts of REAL cars and aircraft, in a real-world environment.

They're not copies of things that have been made before, either. Each thing I come up with AND make with my own two hands, is a unique solution to a particular functional and packaging problem.

Somehow I manage to pull it all together.

I'm obviously an ignorant no-talent idiot, so if I can do it, it shouldn't be too hard to find people who can measure something that ALREADY EXISTS and DOESN'T HAVE TO FUNCTION, and divide the measurements by whatever scale they're working in.

I used to work on prototype vehicles and pre-production vehicles, on for a volume automotive manufacturer, which cars were and still are a compromise, due to the fact that they have to be sold in a certain price range/segment.

The model kit industry doesn't realy differ, they to position their products into a certain price range, the question is what do you do when due to circumstances beyond you control it seems you're not ably to get to get it a 100 percent right for the lunatic fringe (us), but good enough for the 99% of the core segment you cater, sink more money into the project you know you never gonna recoup, or let it slide?

Think as a business on this one, not as a modeler!

The essence is that you and I not really differ in opinion, we both want the most bang for our hobby buck, but what to us is a hobby, to them is an everyday struggle to survive....

Talk to me off the board of what you do in life...my addy is luc.in.belgium@hotmail.com

[bobthehobbyguy]

If their bosses are happy with the jobs they're doing and continue to employ them then who are we to say? If that job is to provide a reasonable replica developed over a reasonable timeframe for a reasonable price that pleases a majority of modelers then I think they're doing a good job. If that job is to provide an exacting replica without regard to time or price that pleases even the most discerning of modelers then I don't think they're doing a very good job but maybe that isn't the job they set out to do. Ultimately it's up to each one of us to determine if it meets our standards. If it does, we buy it. If it doesn't, we don't...

Well put. Sums up this issue well. Utimately the consumer votes with their wallet. If you are not happy with a product then don't buy it. Its really that simple!

[Sledsel]

I showed front issues in the General forum. Did not wish to stoke this fire

[Brett Barrow]

And I never get tired of you guys constantly willfully missing the point entirely, and trying to make my comments seem like bragging rather than what I'm actually saying...

MEASURING IS NOT DIFFICULT. IF I CAN DO IT, ANYBODY CAN DO IT.

Wow, he's figured it out - just take accurate measurements! I'm sure that's all there is to it, just take some measurements and plug them into the computer and out spits an accurate replica!

Or maybe, just maybe, designing scale model kits is a difficult task that has its own set of specific challenges and takes a team of folks all around the world that all have to perform different tasks that all contribute to the final product and even with an accurate set of measurements there are still opportunities for mistakes to creep into the workflow and those mistakes take money and time to correct and there are budgets to come in under and deadlines to meet and every model that has ever sat on a shelf is a series of fixes, corrections, patches and compromises and is a refection of the circumstances of the market in the time it was created in.

Nah, just kidding, it's cause they spent their tape measure budget on hookers and blow....

[Luc Janssens]

Nah, just kidding, it's cause they spent their tape measure budget on hookers and blow....

Brett, it was supposed to be a secret, Duh!

Anyway folks, it basically boils down to this, the art of creating a 3D model from 2D material (when dealing with vintage subjects) , within a certain budget and time frame.

No one is holding anyone back, to create their own model kits, just raise the necessary funds (250-300K) via crowd funding via social media and start one wild roller coaster ride LOL

.

[mike 51]

So I'm still wondering why they removed the rear bumper guards instead of simply fixing them...or just leaving the wrong ones in place.

[Guest]

I would rather have none than ones too large. Most likely one could have gotten a bumper without them.

[mike 51]

"Most likely one could have gotten a bumper without them"

Nope..the lights for the rear license plate were in the bumper guards...you had to have a rear plate and it had to be lighted in all 48 states.

(They also carried over the sedan steering wheel...but the wagon would have had the deluxe chrome horn ring/hub steering wheel)

The kit is supposed to be able to be built stock...the 2 n 1 is STOCK or POLICE....there's no mention of "custom" parts.

But I'm mostly, at this point, JUST curious about why they choose to remove them vs. correcting them.

Edited June 27, 2015 by mike 51

['70 Grande]

But I'm mostly, at this point, JUST curious about why they choose to remove them vs. correcting them.

My guess; cost savings. Probably easier and more cost-effective to delete than to revise. No real approval-process, (which translates into "time" and "money"), necessary with making a deletion. More time, reviews and approvals required with making a revision; hence more cost.

[FordRodnKustom]

If you like it, buy it and enjoy. If not, don't. Then move on. It's that simple.....at least for me.

[mrm]

I have been following this thread and the couple other ones since they were started and I decided to finally put in my 2 cents as worthless they may be to some of you.

I think the main plot here is totally lost. And this is not the first time I see this and not only in this genre.

I am a rare breed of modeler. I say this because I collect 1:43 diecast AND resin models. I build them too. Customize them, modify them, build them on commission for other people and for myself. I also collect 1:18 scale cheap toy motorcycle models (Ducatti only). I also have probably one of the best 1:18 diecast collections of Ferraris in the country. If it was made in 1:18- I own it. But I also build them. I have parts 3D designed and 3D printed for me and I make my own molds for them and then use them to modify already existing diecast models. These are almost exclusively exotic cars. To many it seems strange that I have completely mixed the hobby of collecting diecast with building plastic models. The other "no-no" in many's eyes is that I am as much a Ferrari guy as I am a hot/street rod guy. Street rods are my passion. I love to build them and here I work almost exclusively in plastic.

Why am I telling you all this?

Because I run into the same discussions, arguments and down right nasty exchanges in all the forums. And the main thing the 1:43 crowd, the 1:18 exotics fans, the F1 buffs, the diecast muscle car fanatics, the plastic kit mob and the 1:24 Franklin/Danburry Mint gang have in common is each clique's selfish, self centered tunnel vision, which gives them the ability to ignore the existence of anything outside their interest.

Folks collecting diecast fail miserably to have the basic understanding of how pressure molding works (actually pretty much same in plastic kits and metal) and therefore b!tch and moan about extra lines or not perfect undercuts. The comparisons that some make between a $500 handmade collectors resin model and Bburago's latest $30 release meant to be sold at gas stations across Europe is just as absurd as the comparisons I read about on here, where a plastic model toy (the true purpose of Revell's product) sold in Walmart is compared with mediocrity causing a Space shuttle to fall apart.

To add to this craziness, there are kindergarten level battles, complete with name calling, wiener measuring contests and credentials pulling, over a STREET ROD model, which half of the participants will probably build as a rat rod. You know, that novelty style, where rusted pitchforks are used as fenders, grandpa's tractor donated its nose for a grille shell and lotsa junk in da trunk (literally).

Here is the bottom line. My kid likes to build cars "with the engine sticking out" and has no clue (yet) about the difference between a 1928 and 1932 Ford. I like to build Street Rods. I cut them, slice them, dice them and splice them anyway I find fit in order to make them look the way I want. I had no idea what the firewall on a pristine factory stock model A looks like. I don't care. This may really upset some, but the simple reality is, that me and my kids are the vast majority. And the people who really care about the edge of the roof insert and how round a fire wall is or if the bumper guards on a plastic toy are bigger or smaller, to the point of not buying the kit because of it, are very few and far in between, when compared to the expected world wide sales.

Just like the 1:18 scale crowd completely ignores the elephant in the room called 1:43 and the supercar fanboys ignore all the BMW and Mercedes collectors who couldn't care less what land rocket some sheikh in Abu Dhabi just bought, same way a lot of people on here completely ignore the fact that these kits are sold all over the world and a builder in Romania couldn't care less what the requirements in the 48 states were in 195X.

It puzzles me to see people proudly announcing how they spent $10 for a front axle from Australia, $20 on brakes from Maryland, $15 on a rough resin body from NJ and throw them in a bag with parts from four other kits to come up with what is in one of these hot-topic-kits-soon-to-come and complain about the $24 they would have to spend.

It's a hobby, it's A TOY. It's a KIT, that you have to put together. It's a business, from the other side of the fence. It has some faults. Who cares? Just like any other product out there, you have the choice not to buy it. Don't like it, don't buy it. The chassis/suspension/wheels/tires/brakes alone in the 28/9-30 kit are worth twice the price of the whole kit in aftermarket pieces. And the hypocrites on here, who had no idea about 90% of the issues until yesterday, who proclaim that now they will not buy the kit, are the first ones who would stack up three or four of them in their basement the first chance they have. I personally never buy more than one of the same kit at the same time. But I can guarantee you that I will be getting one of each of the new (hot topic) releases from Revell, the first chance I have. And those who don't buy any, would not make the slightest bit of difference in the big picture.

So built what you like, have fun and stop belittling other people's hard work. It is really tiring to see the same handful of people time and time again calling the glass half empty even when it is three quarters full.

Edited June 28, 2015 by mrm

[DaveM]

I have one of the Customs, and a Del Rio. The '57 Ford was a subject that I would have bought 6 or 8 of. The execution of the kit was worth a couple, maybe a third someday. The Moebius Pickups were a subject I could have bought three or four of, total, but the kit is so much fun, I have three of each, an I am waiting to see what variations they do next.! I vote with my wallet. When Revell fixed the Torino, I ended up with a few of them. It is a really great kit, and the fixed version is even better. When they made the '69 Nova, I bought one, and ended up using it for parts. I owned several full sized Mustang LX notchbacks, and would have bought a LOT of the Revell Mustangs, but I don't own one, nor will I ever recommend it to anybody. I have a 'Cuda, but probably won't bring myself to waste the effort on fixing it. It just seems to float to the back of the "Build next" pile. I have other kits that will build better looking models with less body work. (Like a huge stash of Revell '55 through '57 Chevy kits.)

I am not the rivet counter from heck, I build models with flaws. Some I correct, while some I decide to live with. When the basic proportions of a model are way off, or major character lines, trims or big details are incorrect, then the model starts to look "off". Even when you aren't comparing it side by side, to an original, you can tell it isn't right to the eye. When the look starts to completely miss the mark, my interest in the kit drops off too. I have a stupidly large stash of models. I do not need new issues unless they are well done kits of cars I am interested in. It is frustrating when a model company misses basic things, especially when they are pointed out in test shots or not corrected in later versions of a kit. I have said before, it is much simpler to fix the mold once, than to expect thousands of customers to each fix their final product, one at a time. (Or to live with it being wrong) If I need to rebuild a major component, do major surgery on the body, or buy resin parts to build a reasonable model, that factors into my decision to build one or a few of them. If the model manufacturers want to build sloppy kits, that is their business. Whether I buy them is my business. Even with Moebius, I will probably only get one of their Satellites, and a quite a few Pontiacs, even though I am a major fan of mid sixties Mopars. The Pontiacs look pretty spot on out of the box, where the Satellite will take some body work, and scratchbuilding vent windows and moldings to make it look like a real Satellite. I hope they fix it in the next version, but I will wait and see.

One thing I will not do is buy a bunch of bad kits, just to encourage a model company to keep going. I am not sure where this logic comes from. (The whole "If we ignore this kit, we will never get a 1916 Hupmobile" argument.) Buying a bad kit will just encourage them to put out more bad kits. (If those saps bought the last kit we made by the thousands, we don't need to make this one any better) If they produce a good kit, I will reward them with sales and praise. If they produce a dog, I will take my money elsewhere, and wait to see if their next kit is a bit better. When Cathie bought a Pontiac, and had more repairs and problems than any other car, she didn't say, "Oh, if I don't buy another Pontiac, they might give up on building cars". She turned around, bought a Toyota, and never looked back. The fact that Pontiac did give up and stop building cars shortly afterwards didn't seem to bother her too much.

All in all, it's just a hobby, and if I stop enjoying it, then I need to quit. If a model is not fun to build, and enjoyable to look at after I build it, I will build something else. I build cars because I like cars, but I have also built other things. When I get too frustrated with cars, I build a peanut scale model, or tinker with a fountain pen, but I always come back to them. As it is, I plan to build model cars for a long time. I plan to keep the friendships I have made in the hobby for a long time too, even if threads and debates get a little tense at times. There's too much fun to still be had, and too many glossy paint jobs to be polished.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Whoah. It appears some of of you have totally lost the plot on where the tunnel vision and the intolerance really starts in these discussions, and in doing so, you brandish some pretty mighty tunnel vision of your own. When is the last time a critic implied anybody was wrong for liking a kit?

"If you don't like it, don't buy it. That Simple." Yes, and this is a model discussion forum, so some of us are going to talk about why we're buying it or not buying it, or why the little issues fall well inside the window of what we'll eagerly accept, or why even the smallest deviation just won't cut it.

Personally, I've long thought it pretty impressive what Revell and Moebius are managing to do against the obstacles they face. And that's part of why I keep buying 'em even with the problems I see.

But I fail to see how accepting that premise puts a gag order on what anyone can discuss about a given model. 'Cause from the way some of you act, a gag order is exactly what you seem to want. You all have very cleverly gaslit the situation to make Bill out to be the one intolerant of everybody's viewpoints, when he would never be making those points in the first place if you all could just leave the "nitpickers" be. WHO ARE THEY HARMING? But the litmus test is still there: Bill is defending something rational, and you all are attacking from a very irrational basis.

Anybody gonna try and steer it back at this point to the damage done to Revell by the ONE recent refusal to buy the kit we've seen in this thread?

'Cause ya cain't have it both ways. If you say "don't like it, don't buy it" and you mean it, then these people who don't buy the kit can't have that much significance to you. On the other hand, if every online refusal to buy the kit means hundreds off line, *gasp*, look at the damage you're doing to Revell's bottom line by telling people essentially to just shut up and not buy the kit.

And you'd better believe others are going to see the fault lines in your reasoning, no matter how you refuse to. In the meantime, the situation is very apt just to metastasize from kit critiques in spite of your objections to kit critiques because of your objections. Wanna keep pushing it and see?

Edited June 28, 2015 by Chuck Kourouklis