New kits with flaws.

[Harry P.]

This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to make sense.

It seems to me that the model kit industry these days (model cars, specifically) is a tough business to be in. Sales are down, there are fewer people in the hobby (smaller consumer base), and kit prices have increased greatly. Not exactly three facts that would bode well for the industry.

After reading Dave M's description of how things operate at Moebius, it's obvious to me that employees there (and probably at the other model manufacturers as well) are overworked and tasked with way too many responsibilities per person. Whenever a person is overworked, no matter what the business, that's when mistakes tend to happen and the number of mistakes tends to increase. Trying to do more with fewer resources and a smaller budget is never a recipe for success, but things being what they are today, that's how the kit manufacturers have to operate. They are putting out kits that will sell far fewer copies than they would have years ago, when the model car hobby was much stronger. Since each kit they produce will probably sell far fewer units than it would have years ago, and since they still need to make a profit in order to stay in business, the only option available is to cut unit costs. There's simply no other way.

And how do you cut costs? Well, one way companies cut costs is to place more responsibilities on fewer employees. If the company can make 5 people do the work that used to take 8 people, and lay off the "extra" 3 employees... that's a cost savings, bottom line. But relying on 5 people to do the work that really should take 8 people to do might not be the best way to go if your ultimate goal is quality, not cost, because you now have 5 overworked, stressed-out employees that are going to be more prone to make mistakes than if the work were spread out among the previous 8 people. But let's be real... every company's number one goal, regardless of the product they sell, is to increase their bottom line. Some companies do it better than others, but they all are looking for the same result: more $$$. And that's not an evil thing... it's just good business. No company can stay in business unless they're making a profit.

So in the world of model car kits, the business atmosphere is much different today than it was 20-30-40 years ago. It's much tougher to be a profitable model car company today than it was in 1969. And in order to be profitable under difficult circumstances, certain steps need to be taken... steps to cut costs. The problem is that those steps can sometimes result in problems like mistakes creeping into the process, or mistakes making it way too far into the manufacturing process before they are caught... if they are caught at all.

This isn't meant to be my excuse for companies to screw up, just my attempt at putting the issue of "why are there so many mistakes in newly tooled kits?" into perspective.

[Atmobil]

I find it strange that people are complaining about errors in kits that are not made by Moebius in a thread that has been started by a headguy at Moebius.

If one of these faults had been in a kit from Moebius I can understand the complaints here.

I would also like ask the question to everyone here, what is your definition of a gross error in a kit?

For me personally it is badly fitting parts, lots of flash and wrong parts in the kit. A few years ago I bought a MPC 72 Pontiac GTO (I guess this is an old kit beeing reissued) and the floorpan was longer than the body. I needed to cut of about half an inch.

Another kit I built a few years ago was a Airfix 1:72 plane, this was in a so called Starter set with some paint, glue and brushes. Another old kit beeing reissued and the halfs of the fuselage was not the same length and the wings where at different places. Being sold as a Starter set and then maybe bought and built by someone that has not built models before this could easily put them off building more models. Now, these examples are gross errors.

I'm thinking of myself when I started builing models, I was 12 years old and built a couple of airplanes that I had gotten as a Christmas gift. I used a complete tube of Humbrol glue on one airplane and the wings almost melted.

I guess that the most important thing for me at the time was that I got it togheter and not how accurate it was in the details.

Thinking of the kits that have been new tools the last few years, how many has bad partsfit and lots of flash?

Maybe the roofline has been off or something else had been a bit off but you can put it togheter without to much problems right?

[Ace-Garageguy]

I find it strange that people are complaining about errors in kits that are not made by Moebius in a thread that has been started by a headguy at Moebius.

If one of these faults had been in a kit from Moebius I can understand the complaints here.

Earlier in the thread this question came up. One point was that, as Moebius seems able to deal with all of the conflicting problems inherent in kit manufacture these days and STILL turn out great models, nobody else in the biz really has any excuse for getting things badly wrong.

I would also like ask the question to everyone here, what is your definition of a gross error in a kit?

Again, this was discussed earlier. MY definition of "gross error" is things I cited as examples...Revell's badly out of scale and proportion Mustang roofline, Revell's two current production Hemi engines (one in the Magnum kit, one in the Challenger) that ARE IDENTICAL in reality, but the one in the Magnum is scaled way too long, and the fairly recent AMT AlaKart retool that has a SERIOUSLY UNDERSCALE engine and trans, closer to 1/32 than 1/25.

I can accept minor detail flaws. The smaller bits are much more time consuming to get exactly right for the manufacturer. No problem if they're seriously short of "perfection". I can also accept not-so-great fit, and moderate flash. I have the skills to compensate.

BUT...THE MAJOR SCALING AND PROPORTIONS SHOULD BE CORRECT, or pretty damm close. THE MODEL SHOULD LOOK VERY MUCH LIKE WHAT IT REPRESENTS. CORRECTLY SCALED.

For me personally it is badly fitting parts, lots of flash and wrong parts in the kit. A few years ago I bought a MPC 72 Pontiac GTO (I guess this is an old kit beeing reissued) and the floorpan was longer than the body. I needed to cut of about half an inch.

Another kit I built a few years ago was a Airfix 1:72 plane, this was in a so called Starter set with some paint, glue and brushes. Another old kit beeing reissued and the halfs of the fuselage was not the same length and the wings where at different places. Being sold as a Starter set and then maybe bought and built by someone that has not built models before this could easily put them off building more models. Now, these examples are gross errors.

I'm thinking of myself when I started builing models, I was 12 years old and built a couple of airplanes that I had gotten as a Christmas gift. I used a complete tube of Humbrol glue on one airplane and the wings almost melted.

I guess that the most important thing for me at the time was that I got it togheter and not how accurate it was in the details.

Thinking of the kits that have been new tools the last few years, how many has bad partsfit and lots of flash?

Maybe the roofline has been off or something else had been a bit off but you can put it togheter without to much problems right?

Edited December 22, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[mikemodeler]

This is just speculation on my part, but it seems to make sense.

It seems to me that the model kit industry these days (model cars, specifically) is a tough business to be in. Sales are down, there are fewer people in the hobby (smaller consumer base), and kit prices have increased greatly. Not exactly three facts that would bode well for the industry.

After reading Dave M's description of how things operate at Moebius, it's obvious to me that employees there (and probably at the other model manufacturers as well) are overworked and tasked with way too many responsibilities per person. Whenever a person is overworked, no matter what the business, that's when mistakes tend to happen and the number of mistakes tends to increase. Trying to do more with fewer resources and a smaller budget is never a recipe for success, but things being what they are today, that's how the kit manufacturers have to operate. They are putting out kits that will sell far fewer copies than they would have years ago, when the model car hobby was much stronger. Since each kit they produce will probably sell far fewer units than it would have years ago, and since they still need to make a profit in order to stay in business, the only option available is to cut unit costs. There's simply no other way.

And how do you cut costs? Well, one way companies cut costs is to place more responsibilities on fewer employees. If the company can make 5 people do the work that used to take 8 people, and lay off the "extra" 3 employees... that's a cost savings, bottom line. But relying on 5 people to do the work that really should take 8 people to do might not be the best way to go if your ultimate goal is quality, not cost, because you now have 5 overworked, stressed-out employees that are going to be more prone to make mistakes than if the work were spread out among the previous 8 people. But let's be real... every company's number one goal, regardless of the product they sell, is to increase their bottom line. Some companies do it better than others, but they all are looking for the same result: more $$$. And that's not an evil thing... it's just good business. No company can stay in business unless they're making a profit.

So in the world of model car kits, the business atmosphere is much different today than it was 20-30-40 years ago. It's much tougher to be a profitable model car company today than it was in 1969. And in order to be profitable under difficult circumstances, certain steps need to be taken... steps to cut costs. The problem is that those steps can sometimes result in problems like mistakes creeping into the process, or mistakes making it way too far into the manufacturing process before they are caught... if they are caught at all.

This isn't meant to be my excuse for companies to screw up, just my attempt at putting the issue of "why are there so many mistakes in newly tooled kits?" into perspective.

Another way of stating what Dave did Harry, but maybe it will sink in with a few of the doubters.

For the resident "experts", I suggest you spend a week in the life of Dave Metzner and see if your view changes. Just saying.................

[mikemodeler]

Seems to me that so-called 'jack wagons' like Bill are the main reason 'Made in the USA' ever came to stand for anything at all. Guys that are doing their best with the talents bestowed upon them with sometimes limited resources to keep the hobby going are the ones we owe thanks to.

You contradict yourself with your statement. My comment about "jack wagons" was intended to mean that some people can ruin the hobby with their endless criticism while not being directly involved in the situation being discussed, i.e. Bill works in manufacturing but not at a model kit company.

Dave Metzner is an example of your second sentence and I think I have stated several times my thanks to him and others at the model companies for the pursuit of new kits at the risk of ridicule by a seemingly ungrateful few in this hobby.

In this global economy we are all a part of, "Made in USA" is something that doesn't mean what it did in years past. Look at the appliance industry for a perfect example.

[johnbuzzed]

So, many people think that because they agree with an "expert", then no one is allowed to have another opinion or idea. Or, are we all- all of society- supposed to kowtow to the bean counters and corporate talking heads who try to get the consumers to buy goods of a lesser quality because it would cost more money to produce goods of a better quality? I understand that the model manufacturers are not giant corporations, but having been involved in a small business that went through the "save a buck" syndrome, I am aware that in order to sell a quality product, one must not be afraid to spend money. I have seen the results and it inevitably costs the company more to correct the mistakes after production begins than if said mistakes were eliminated in the engineering stages.

I do agree that many, if not all of the complaints in these posts, are not directed toward Moebius and are directed at other manufacturers, but I do wonder how many more of the infamous Fox body Ford kits might have been sold had that roof been just a little taller. Obviously, someone (or, many someones) wanted correct dimensions, else, the aftermarket would not be selling resin bodies with a correct roof height.

And, being a forum, the subject can, will and does skew away from the original, much as in an actual conversation. Get over that. It happens in more posts/strings here than we might realize.

[Dave Metzner]

Harry, I'm not overworked. My office is 25 feet from my bedroom and I work pretty much on my own schedule.

My personal experience is that most of the people I know in this business really do like what they do for a living.

Yes the industry today does not resemble the AMT or Johan of 40 or 50 years ago, or the Revell of 15 years ago for that matter.

For that matter the industry today is substantially different from 1997 when I started doing this kind of work at Playing Mantis,

Yes it's a shrinking demographic - and a much more demanding customer base.

The days of running 50 thousand kits in one run are long gone! Along with the days of 15 year old kids riding their bikes to the local hobby store every saturday morning to pick up a kit for a buck and a quarter.

Factories are 15 hours away and most of the folks who make everything associated with these kits speak no English and have never seen a real 1960's American automobile.

Factories in China have shed alot of their own internal staff and now subcontract work that was in house two or three years ago which can and often does complicate matters on this side of the world!

Some manufacturers still have deadlines to finish and deliver kits imposed on them by customer store planogram stocking schedules.

Some in the industry have lost very experienced people with many,many years in the plastic kit production business lately..

I'll be first to tell you that there are not many (if any) people in this country today that could step into Roger Harney's shoes!

There are so many factors involved that kit buyers will never see.

[Tom Geiger]

You contradict yourself with your statement. My comment about "jack wagons" was intended to mean that some people can ruin the hobby with their endless criticism while not being directly involved in the situation being discussed, i.e. Bill works in manufacturing but not at a model kit company.

Dave Metzner is an example of your second sentence and I think I have stated several times my thanks to him and others at the model companies for the pursuit of new kits at the risk of ridicule by a seemingly ungrateful few in this hobby.

I personally want to thank the board "jack wagons" for their efforts in running Dave Metzner off the board. If I was him, I wouldn't be back. You guys must be really proud of yourselves and how you put your personal interests and amateur opinions ahead of the good of the board and the hobby. There are those of us who enjoy that inside view of how things happen in a model company. There are those of us who have done professional project management, who are amazed at what results they are able to achieve with the limited resources they have.

For those who will reply that you are "entitled" to your opinion, that you are "entitled" to perfect model kits, or that you are the one person who is right, well go back to your delusion. Not one of you showed respect or stopped for one second to think that Dave wouldn't want his competitors trashed in a thread that he has started. For the record, that is a small community and Dave has the greatest respect for those in the business. To trash this thread like that is thoughtless and selfish.

And for those who felt the need to illustrate your idea of a "bad kit" none of the minutia you mentioned, including the roof height on the Mustang matter to 99% of those who buy model kits. The fact that you had to go back to use AMT kits that were developed two, maybe three owners ago shows your desperation to always be right. AND for those who wanted to use AMT kits as examples, I guess you don't know the business well enough to know that Dave worked for AMT under Playing Mantis and was involved in some of those projects!

So thank you very much.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Ace-Garageguy]

I've REPEATEDLY said I have respect for the products that Moebius produces, and a GREAT MANY of the products others turn out. REPEATEDLY.

I've REPEATEDLY said I fully understand the problems a manufacturer faces today, when much of the product development and tooling is outsourced overseas.

I've REPEATEDLY said positive things about the products of Moebius AND Revell that contain NO GROSS ERRORS in scaling or proportion.

BUT, many of you choose to say I "endlessly complain" (when I COULD very well point out COUNTLESS flaws in every kit out there) and name-call me "jack-wagon" (don't bother saying "get over yourself"...that was directed at ME personally) for simply pointing out that many of the "reasons" cited by so many for second-rate products are in reality excuses for just not trying hard enough.

Part of the problem with this country today is that FAR more resources and energy are expended avoiding responsibility, spreading blame, covering asses, and making excuses than go into getting things done.

I've "done professional project management" and I KNOW what can be achieved if you crack the whip occasionally and hold your people to a high standard, rather than endlessly praising and rewarding mediocrity.

My illustrations of a "bad kit" were examples of things that are easily avoided. If you, Tom, had ever had to get the best from a group of people who do things with their hands, you just MIGHT have a clue how a bad example, even an OLD bad example, can be a very useful teaching tool.

And I would CERTAINLY imagine Mr. Metzner is a big enough boy to not be "run off the board" because I had the unmitigated audacity to voice opinions based on first-hand multi-national manufacturing and management experience. (Last corporate client Canadian based; market Pakistan, India and England; engineering, pre-production tooling and prototyping done by me; production tooling and production in China).

Edited December 22, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dave Metzner]

Correction please - I worked at Playing Mantis as Polar Lights Brand Manager before the company was sold to RC2 - not since Round 2 was established and their acquisition of AMT MPC etc.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Dave Metzner

[johnbuzzed]

Umm... i didn't see Dave run away. And, again- if the roof height didn't matter, why does the aftermarket offer a resin body with the correct roof height? Apparently, there is enough of a need for a private individual to take it upon himself to do this, and from what I remember from posts in the threads about that kit, more than a few happy customers. Ironically, I do have one of those kits and I will be building it right from the box because I don't consider the flaw to be intolerable. I do, however, consider HOW the roof height came to be incorrect, intolerable.

Why do some expect all of us to kiss butt when it comes to the manufacturers? It seems that we are supposed to write personal thank-you notes to them whenever a kit is produced or re-introduced, no matter the quality. Granted, they might be the only game in town for our hobby, but as has been stated, their market demographics are dwindling. How about keeping the customer- and please, don't give me "the retailer/warehouse/merchandiser is the customer" line because, if we don't buy, they won't buy and if they don't buy, there go the manufacturers.

[Speedfreak]

.............and when I get tired of modeling I just start glueing my kids stuffed toys together in a big pile with CA glue and let the cats play on it.............works for me

[Dave Metzner]

Just saying, that posts all in caps that cite GROSS ERRORS, UNEXCUSEABLE MISTAKES and INTOLREABLE FLAWS and how it was somebody was paid to get it right and ought to lose his job, don't do much to impress me favorably. Probably isn't making much of a favorable impression with other folks in this business who may be reading these forums either.

Some of these "discussions" fall a fair distance short of civillity and as such, probably do little more than irritate the people who's work is being criticised.

You don't need to "kiss butt" for the manufacturers , however - when you get nasty, all you do is marginalize youself.

[johnbuzzed]

I, for one, don't see anyone getting "nasty", but I guess that's a matter of personal opinion. Perhaps caps, bold, italics, underlines, etc, are ways to emphasize a point. And, while I do appreciate your taking the time to do some marketing and research on or in this forum, I do not appreciate all those posts that advise placating the manufacturers- any manufacturers. Why should we? We are the consumers. The manufacturers might supply us with goods for our hobby, but we put bread on the manufacturers' tables. And I do realize that "there is no perfect model kit" and some minor flaws, inaccuracies, mistakes, errors, etc, are inevitable, I also know that some aren't. Try passing off errors equivalent to those which I cite on military modelers (where in 1/72 scale, a wingspan difference of 3 scale inches can be pointed out in a review) or model railroaders. Talk about a lead balloon.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I don't know about anyone's perception, but my own uses of caps ie. GROSS ERRORS, was primarily to get the attention of posters who seemed to think my criticisms were in pursuit of the "perfect kit". Whenever anyone criticizes anything, no matter how politely, he's immediately labeled a "rivet counter" and accused of trying to drive the manufacturers out of business by wanting impossible to achieve perfection.

It's difficult to compete with the piling on of those who refuse to see legitimate gripes concerning big scaling and proportion errors, and label them as incessant criticism of trivial things, without screaming sometimes. At least is it for me.

[Tye Brown]

And this is why I don't come here much anymore..This board has just turned into a big whinge fest..And personally I'm over it man. We should be greatful for the model compaines out there man busting there ass to give us the modellers something new to play with...But NO!!!!!!!! everyone has to get on and bag the BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH out of every kit that gets released. Be thankful guys or we will have no hobby man..

[Guest]

Funny how the only guy involved in the model car manufacturing business comes on here and tries to explain the process and this forum is full of experts who JUST KNOW what the industry is doing incorrectly!

I suggest you self-proclaimed EXPERTS offer up your time, expertise and if necessary, additional working capital to the industry so they can get it right, just so there will be no complaining. I am sure Ed Sexton, Dave Metzner and the rest of the model car product managers would appreciate the extra help in getting a better product to market. If any of you had bothered to read or understand what Dave wrote you would know that inaccuracies are not intentional but are sometimes the result of limitations placed upon them for various reasons.

Amen.

[modelercarl]

x2

[bbowser]

I appreciate Dave coming on here and explaining the inner workings of a model company. I don't believe anyone purposely puts out a flawed product. The global economy being the way it is today, even with state of the art communications over thousands of miles, errors creep in and judgments are made. The fact that Moebius is not as big as Revell or Round2 makes them more nimble and better able to catch and fix flaws before they are committed to steel. I am totally blown away by the quality of product coming these days from all the companies. The Hudsons and Chryslers are state of the art. Revell has always had high parts counts and with the newer tools well fitting kits. I currently have the AMT '60 Ford Starliner on the bench and am blown away by the engraving on the engine and the detailed separate frame.

It's nice to be nostalgic over Johan kits or the Craftsman series, but I believe now is the new "golden age" of the hobby, and boards like this one allow us a voice like never before. We should call them out when we see things that are "grossly inaccurate", but we should also vote with our dollars when they get it right. Capitalism is a terrible system, but better than any other one we've tried so far!

My 2c spent.

[Cliff Dagger]

I want to apologize for asking about Walmart. I had no idea it was that bad dealing with them , I thought if Ithey sell a 6 inch Black widow figure for $20 then a larger better looking model of the same chick would sell there too .

My local Walmart has a 4 foot section of models and it looks like they sell a lot of Revell Mustangs

[Craig Irwin]

Having several hundred unbuilt kits in my stash, if the entire model industry goes out of business tonight I'll never live long enough to build what I already have on hand. If a model company wants my ever harder to earn money the new kit better be a subject I'm interested in, and it better look like that subject. And it better have the scripts and emblems molded on it. Moebius is doing that, others aren't.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Craig Irwin

[Jeff Johnston]

Man I read this and just shake my head. Some of you have some real class... Seriously, its shameful.

[keyser]

Mr. Metzner, thanks for coming back and commenting further. Agree that long gestations kill profit, enthusiasm within a company, and changes can compound multiple errors.

I alluded to the communication issues, as there are many dialects of Chinese, despite common written language. Business often uses Mandarin, but Wu is used in Shanghai, and others in various manufacturing cities. It was awful that the Mints lost all their tools and product.

Patent laws are often merely suggestions, and large businesses need people on the ground, multi-lingual, absolutely always.

China has been changing for decades, continues to do so, hence overhead reduction. Manpower used to be cheap in China, but no more, and profit margins are pushed higher as growth demands. I've had friends doing business in China for decades, and their growth and learning curve has been far steeper than most, similar to Vietnam's. As we see now acutely, Russia left in the dust.

My work didn't allow for mistakes generally, I'm a chest physician, did ICU too. Retired last year due to cancer, but was multitasking for many years. Errors weren't acceptable. Model cars are generally irrelevant pastimes, but it should look like it's intended. Hot Wheels, Maisto do it, even Lego does nice T1 bus with square blocks. Wiper motors, Xbraces on 57 Belair convertibles? Who cares? Rooflines, fenders, proportions matter. If not to you, awesome.

I guess mikemodeler's calling people that have different standards as he has "jack-wagons". Cool.

Tom Geiger, your couple rants about "jack-wagons", running off Dave M, and need for "perfect" kits and "minutiae" like roof contours, etc. pretty much pull same fallacies as usual. You and I both know good kits, and some of these aren't good. It isn't about "perfect" (everyone's words but the people complaining about flaws), and it isn't about "minutiae", as you called it.

Moebius sounds like they've beat their head on a Chinese wall for the 60's Ford pickup for years, and I have no doubt fixes have created other problems. Test shot posted awhile back had things that weren't quite minutiae, but not my place to point it out, as it was work in progress. If someone asked, I'm happy to help. However, looking at a very flawed MotorMax diecast makes it easy to understand Moebius' blasted timeline.

Harry P, I agree with your comments. I do believe that there are some free resources to help kit makers check accuracy. I also think Bill's comment about rapid prototyping with 3D printing is on the mark. The files are the issue, guys that have seen the car, or the references, and can correspond with the manufacturer are the crucial step. Breeding the cow takes work. Everything else is just making the sandwich look nice and fit in our mouth.

Real class indeed. Love the emperor's clothes, or gtfo:

PS: These threads are not unique to this board, and pale compared to an IPMS discourse. Just sayin'

Mediocrity-It's what we do best!

Edited December 24, 2014 by keyser

[Daddyfink]

Go ahead, censor me and take it down!

[StevenGuthmiller]

Mr. Metzger, thanks for coming back and commenting further. Agree that long gestations kill profit, enthusiasm within a company, and changes can compound multiple errors.

I alluded to the communication issues, as there are many dialects of Chinese, despite common written language. Business often uses Mandarin, but Wu is used in Shanghai, and others in various manufacturing cities. It was awful that the Mints lost all their tools and product.

Patent laws are often merely suggestions, and large businesses need people on the ground, multi-lingual, absolutely always.

China has been changing for decades, continues to do so, hence overhead reduction. Manpower used to be cheap in China, but no more, and profit margins are pushed higher as growth demands. I've had friends doing business in China for decades, and their growth and learning curve has been far steeper than most, similar to Vietnam's. As we see now acutely, Russia left in the dust.

My work didn't allow for mistakes generally, I'm a chest physician, did ICU too. Retired last year due to cancer, but was multitasking for many years. Errors weren't acceptable. Model cars are generally irrelevant pastimes, but it should look like it's intended. Hot Wheels, Maisto do it, even Lego does nice T1 bus with square blocks. Wiper motors, Xbraces on 57 Belair convertibles? Who cares? Rooflines, fenders, proportions matter. If not to you, awesome.

I guess mikemodeler's myopic rants about HVAC equipment that doesn't last a lifetime makes him able to call out others as "jack-wagons". Tell you what, pal, the world is different, and try Google for message boards about HVAC, read about parent company Carrier and their parent, United Technologies.

Rant at them, call them "jack-wagons" for not giving you what you want.

Tom Geiger, your couple rants about "jack-wagons", running off Dave M, and need for "perfect" kits and "minutiae" like roof contours, etc. pretty much pull same fallacies as usual. You and I both know good kits, and some of these aren't good. It isn't about "perfect" (everyone's words but the people complaining about flaws), and it isn't about "minutiae", as you called it.

Moebius sounds like they've beat their head on a Chinese wall for the 60's Ford pickup for years, and I have no doubt fixes have created other problems. Test shot posted awhile back had things that weren't quite minutiae, but not my place to point it out, as it was work in progress. If someone asked, I'm happy to help. However, looking at a very flawed MotorMax diecast makes it easy to understand Moebius' blasted timeline.

Harry P, I agree with your comments. I do believe that there are some free resources to help kit makers check accuracy. I also think Bill's comment about rapid prototyping with 3D printing is on the mark. The files are the issue, guys that have seen the car, or the references, and can correspond with the manufacturer are the crucial step. Breeding the cow takes work. Everything else is just making the sandwich look nice and fit in our mouth.

Real class indeed. Love the emperor's clothes, or gtfo:

PS: These threads are not unique to this board, and pale compared to an IPMS discourse. Just sayin'

Mediocrity-It's what we do best!

You might want to do a little research before you start accusing people of things. I "NEVER" called anybody a "jack wagon", whatever that is. I merely brought up the HVAC thing as an illustration about why we should be focusing our "perfection" argument in other areas rather than something as basically meaningless as a model car kit. You're the one who made a production out of it! The way you jumped down my throat & used the tried & true "blame the Chinese" argument, I would have sworn you were a furnace salesman rather than an MD. I hope you treated your patients with a little more tact! Steve