AMT to MPC Molds/Kits/Tooling?

[Snake45]

AMT's collaboration with JoHan (especially on Oldsmobiles and AMs) is well known. It's also well known that the AMT and MPC names have been used on each others' kits since the '80s or so. I'm not talking about any of that.

The discussion below on the '67-'68 Cougar tooling (it appears as if the body of the MPC Cougar funny car MIGHT have originated as the AMT stock kit) got me wondering if AMT passed any other tooling down to MPC in the '60s.

The only one I can think of is AMT's Car Craft Dream Rod, which became MPC's Tiger Shark (molds still exist today, AFAIK). Did MPC end up with any other originally AMT tooling?

Or in the case of Dream Rod/Tiger Shark, did the new MPC company actually DO the tooling on that, and AMT just packaged/sold it for a few years under its name?

Discuss....

[peter31a]

I think the AMT 28 Model A Tudor was another example. I believe that MPC did the tooling and AMT marketed the kits. Thus the next release based on that mold was the 28 pickup/woody kit with the Hot Curl figure. Same chassis different bodies but marketed by MPC. We've seen the pickup and woody rereleased repeatedly but never the Tudor again.

[Snake45]

I think the AMT 28 Model A Tudor was another example. I believe that MPC did the tooling and AMT marketed the kits. Thus the next release based on that mold was the 28 pickup/woody kit with the Hot Curl figure. Same chassis different bodies but marketed by MPC. We've seen the pickup and woody rereleased repeatedly but never the Tudor again.

Yeah, I was thinking that might have been another possible collaboration but I've only ever owned the AMT-packaged reissue of the woody so wasn't sure about its history.

[Mark]

MPC was founded by several ex-AMT employees. The first few kits ('28 Ford sedan, Dream Rod, '65 Coronet) were sold in AMT boxes; apparently the people running the two companies remained on good terms at first. MPC kit #1 ('64 Corvette) was sold in MPC packaging because AMT already had '64 Corvette kits of their own, based on their promotional model work.

If you look at the promotional model side of the business, the creation of new/separate companies seems to make sense. AMT started with mainly Ford work. To get more of the GM work (specifically Chevrolet, which would seem to have been the biggest prize out there) SMP was created. SMP then took most of the Chevy business from PMC. SMP was bought and folded into AMT once it became apparent to everyone interested that the two were pretty much one anyway, and having both Ford and Chevrolet promo business didn't seem to cause any conflicts of interest.

MPC was founded in 1963, with the first kits appearing in '64. Their first promo contract (for '65) was Dodge, swiped from Jo-Han. Maybe Chrysler didn't want to put their promo model business into the hands of a company that already had Ford and the bulk of GM, maybe a few people at AMT figured that out and struck out on their own with the idea of getting that business? It's just a thought; the principal people involved are all gone now so we'll never know for certain. Chrysler had thrown SMP a couple of bones in those years (Imperial, Valiant) but stayed with Jo-Han for Dodge through '64, and some of Plymouth through '70.

The first few MPC kits were marketed by AMT because the latter had distribution and contacts that were far superior to anything a new company (MPC) would have had, never mind that the new company was being run by old hands who knew what they were doing. Maybe MPC didn't have marketing people at that stage, so they would then have concentrated their efforts on product instead, leaving a little profit "on the table" by selling through AMT in order to work around the lack of depth in the marketing area.

Actual tooling going back and forth did happen once in a while, but not often. The early AMT-boxed MPC kits ('28 Ford, etc) were manufactured by MPC. All of the AMT-boxed Jo-Han kits (Olds Toronados and 4-4-2s, two-seater AMXs, etc) were produced by Jo-Han.

One instance of actual tooling going from one company to another might be the Plymouth Barracuda and Chevy Fleetside pickup (AMT for '67, MPC for '68). AMT had a Fleetside again for '69, but that one was different (though very similar).

The Cougar funny car is probably just a case of two companies doing the same subject matter with similar looking results. Back then the funny car bodies had to stay pretty close to stock in terms of dimensions, so it's not inconceivable that two competing companies would measure a '67 Cougar and come up with bodies that were pretty close.

[Snake45]

Thanks so much, Mark, I was really hoping you'd weigh in on this thread. Your knowledge of our history is AWESOME.

I'd forgotten about the 2nd Gen Barracuda tooling going from AMT to MPC. I knew that one, too--I have an original AMT '67.

I want to look some more at those two Cougar bodies. They are just TOO close to say definitely that they came from completely separate molds (but not quite close enough to say with certainty that they didn't).

Thanks again for your input and big brain.

[tim boyd]

One other not mentioned above was the AMT Trophy Series Double Kit King T/Wild Dream designed and manufactured by MPC. After the initial release under the AMT label, MPC's second production run of this tool was separated into two kits in individual boxes with MPC labeling, marketed in 1966.

Pieces of both kit tools were reused many times in other MPC kits of the late 1960's, (some of which have been reissued through the first decade of this century), but to my knowledge the King T and Wild Dream were never reissued again in their original AMT & MPC form. (Mark I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong).

I liked the MPC kits that AMT marketed first, and built several of them, but I was disappointed in the box art, and particularly with the instruction sheets, which featured typical MPC line art vs, the gorgeous AMT Art Deparment instructions with shading, unique fonts, etc, etc.

TIM

Edited January 1, 2015 by tim boyd

[Mark]

The Wilhelm's Wonder and King T weren't reissued after the individual MPC issues. I'm surprised MPC didn't update the Wilhelm kit to replicate the 1968 version that shared the AMBR trophy that year. The chassis in those two kits formed the root stock for a mess of MPC show car/street rod kits.

The box art on AMT's mid-Sixties kits was usually great, but they did have a few clinkers like the MPC-produced kits, and my "favorite", the '27 T/XR-6 double kit, with its linoleum-gray box and bland fonts...

[ChrisBcritter]

Another possible one (haven't got the parts to confirm): AMT 1/43 '57 Chevy and MPC '57 Chevy Zinger - I had the Zinger a long time ago and remember the body being much more detailed and accurately shaped than the others in that series.

[Don Sikora II]

I've also read that one of MPC's earliest "projects" was molding kits for the Airfix Corporation of America in 1963. It's plausible since MPC's name and address are listed for replacement parts on the instruction sheets.

[Art Anderson]

I've also read that one of MPC's earliest "projects" was molding kits for the Airfix Corporation of America in 1963. It's plausible since MPC's name and address are listed for replacement parts on the instruction sheets.

Actually, I think the sharing of stuff back and forth between Airfix in the UK, and MPC in Michigan was more a shipping of "bagged shots" back and forth. Back in those days, it was lots cheaper to ship unboxed model kits into the US due to a much lower tariff on uncompleted product than completely finished, boxed model kits. But then, what do I know?

Art

[Art Anderson]

I've also read that one of MPC's earliest "projects" was molding kits for the Airfix Corporation of America in 1963. It's plausible since MPC's name and address are listed for replacement parts on the instruction sheets.

Don, my first full time job was working in a large hobby shop here, starting in the summer of 1964. I do not remember seeing any Aiifix kits in Airfix boxes having any reference to a US manufacturer until the late 1960's. Those earlier Airfix kits came in through Polk Brothers in New York, IIRC.

Art

[Don Sikora II]

Don, my first full time job was working in a large hobby shop here, starting in the summer of 1964. I do not remember seeing any Aiifix kits in Airfix boxes having any reference to a US manufacturer until the late 1960's. Those earlier Airfix kits came in through Polk Brothers in New York, IIRC.

Art

Airfix Corporation of America was located in Philadelphia. It seems to have operated in the 1963-1965 time frame. This legal case gives a bit of company background.

These are three Airfix Corporation of America boxes from my collection, Renault Dauphine (top), Fokker Triplane, and F104G Straighter. All say "Made and Litho in USA" so I assume they were actually made in the States and not from bag shots. These are different boxes than the later "Airfix by Craft Master" style.

The plans were marked Airfix Corporation of America and Philadelphia. This plan fit my scanner.

The address for replacement parts was MPC on Groesbeck Hwy.

The Dauphine plan has MPC's address on Hubbard Avenue. Not proof these kits were molded by MPC, but it seems pretty plausible to me.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Don Sikora II

[Casey]

The arrangement of AMT having the right of first refusal on any new MPC kit designs was mentioned in this topic , too:

 

I haven't seen a complete list of all kits which fell under this arrangement-- initially released by AMT, but designed by MPC.  I'm not even sure the '28 Model A and CC Dream Rod qualify, but feel free to add to or disqualify/correct anything as necessary:

1) 1928 Ford Model "A" Tudor. AFAIK, this was never reissued as the stock 1928 Tudor by MPC, but as the '28/9 Model A pickup/Woody

 

2) 1965 Dodge Coronet 500

 

3) AMT 1967 Chevrolet Fleetside

 

4) Car Craft Dream Rod, which became the MPC Tiger Shark:

 

5) Wild Dream/King T:

Edited February 11, 2019 by Casey

[Phirewriter]

I know this has been discussed on another thread floating around here (couldn't find it) but my AMT boxed '67 Barracuda is roughly the same as my '68-'69 MPC Cuda kits. My book is currently packed away but the Hot Rod Model Kits by Terry Jessee touches on some details about the arrangement between George Toteff and AMT after he left to start MPC.

My understanding is the '28 Ford was the first kit released under this arrangement.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Phirewriter

[Motor City]

There was some spirited discussion on this issue with the review of the 1969 Barracuda kit.  Some say it was originally an AMT kit for '67, while others …

(under Kit Reviews)

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Motor City

[Mark]

I don't believe the Barracuda and Chevy pickup were originally MPC.  The AMT-issued MPC kits like the '28 Ford, Dream Rod, and Wild Dream/King T double kit were all MPC, including the tires.  Even the boxes and instruction sheets for those early kits didn't match up with other AMT kits issued alongside them.  That's not the case with the 'Cuda and the pickup.  If you take out the Barracuda and Chevy pickup, the AMT/MPC connection appears to have been a late-'63/early '64, into maybe early '65 deal.  By then, MPC had its own name out there with the Corvettes and ('65) big Dodge, among other things.    

[Rob Hall]

I have a '67 AMT annual boxed version of the Barracuda...but I don't know if the tooling originated w/ AMT or MPC, since MPC had '68 and '69 annuals.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Rob Hall

[Phirewriter]

The topic Jim posted above was the one I was looking for. Seems like an unusual situation if in fact that tooling was cut by AMT and later went to MPC. My thoughts are perhaps that MPC ended up with the promo/kit contract with MPC for '68 and was easier for them to simply purchase the tooling from AMT.  The 3 kits that AMT put out for '68; the Camaro, Impala and Firebird were custom versions only and it was my understanding that decision was made to release them that way because MPC had secured the license/contract for those after the tooling was cut or near completion since they appeared in their line that year.

Unfortunately with most of the players from that era no longer with us the story will probably never be able to be told as to why that occurred. 

I have only my inventory of old kits to compare for my styrene archaeology investigation to try to make sense of tooling changes.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Phirewriter

[Mark]

The AMT '68 Camaro, Firebird, and "Chevrolet SS 427" (doesn't say "Impala" anywhere on the box) weren't actually 1968 kits...the boxes read "for '68".  In other words, "a Camaro we're throwing out there for '68".  The Corvair is labeled that way too, it's just a '67 with no stock wheel covers and blank license plates.  It's usually cheaper than a '67 kit now too.  If you want a '68 Corvair, you can build one using the common-as-dirt '69 kit.  

[Casey]

From this topic...:

 

...comes this (pared down by me) info:

On 9/27/2018 at 7:35 PM, tim boyd said:

The six or so kits that were tooled by MPC and sold for their first production run under the AMT label all shared the following unique points. (a)... They had MPC-style box art even though they had AMT branding for the first run. (b)... They  had  MPC style "stick" instruction sheet drawings vs. the beautifully conceived AMT art department instruction sheet illustrations  and  (c) they were released only once, during the 1964 to 1965 period under AMT labels and all subsequent runs of the toolings wore MPC labels.   The original AMT 1965-67 Barracuda annual kits show none of the above traits......TIM 

 

That seems to concur with what Mark said regarding the '67 Chevy Fleetside and '67 Barracuda kits above.