moparfarmer Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 That six wheel Toronado could have been the prototype for the GMC camper which had Toto FWD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartpix Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 When I was about 12, a friend of one of my neighbor's had a Toronado, the he had built into a sedan delivery. It was a beauty. It was red & looked factory. The last time I saw it, it had been rear ended. What a heartbreak. It may have been one of the reasons I love sedan deliveries & wagons. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 I always thought that GM (in particular but also Ford & Chrysler) were very jealous about new designs or prototypes. maybe that was earlier on when they were really neck and neck in the styling department. but I would think with the Toronado, which was considered a landmark vehicle at the time, they would be keeping new designs under wraps. that must have been some executive driving it home then? when I first saw that photo I was going to comment that it did not look right. but I am not enough of an expert on US iron in general to be sure about it. something about it just kind of looked photoshopped or something. now that I know the history of the photo more, it does seem like it was probably an experimental vehicle. my question really would be whether it was an official GM prototype, or someones backyard project. are there other photos of the same car in different contexts like with GM personnel standing around it? jb According to the caption on the webpage where I found the picture, it was built in Oldsmobile's Engineering Department. In a way, it kinda sounds like the '76 Eldorado that pulled into the restaurant across Maple Road in Troy MI as I was having lunch with a group of AMT Corporation staff (back in the day when I was doing a bunch of box art models for AMT--was there delivering several. That Eldo had a second door on the right-hand side, for easier access to the rear seat. Other than the extra door, we couldn't see any interior alterations, as the window tint was too dark. Oh, and it had a Michigan "Manufacturer" license plate on it. Dave Wilder, then the art director for AMT told me that seeing such apparently prototype cars on the street was quite common. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This could have also been a parts runner for Oldsmobile. Just a test mule to see if they could get better rear seating for adults. We will never know. Most test mules you see in this area are not pretty cars at all. Ugly tape and flat paint covering detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 According to the caption on the webpage where I found the picture, it was built in Oldsmobile's Engineering Department. In a way, it kinda sounds like the '76 Eldorado that pulled into the restaurant across Maple Road in Troy MI as I was having lunch with a group of AMT Corporation staff (back in the day when I was doing a bunch of box art models for AMT--was there delivering several. That Eldo had a second door on the right-hand side, for easier access to the rear seat. Other than the extra door, we couldn't see any interior alterations, as the window tint was too dark. Oh, and it had a Michigan "Manufacturer" license plate on it. Dave Wilder, then the art director for AMT told me that seeing such apparently prototype cars on the street was quite common. Art This is kind of what I was wondering, it this car is some sort of "what if" for building a FWD wagon. I seem to remember reading about some of the GM "Skunkworks" cars from the 80's and 90's that were oddball machines, like a twin engine Citation X-11, V-8 powered Berettas, 4 wheel steer 3rd Gen Camaro, a FWD Bonneville SSEi that had a stretched nose and was sitting on B-Body Caprice/Impala SS chassis that had one of Holden's IRS set ups under the back end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disabled modeler Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I like both wagons.... My first real car was a 72 Olds Toronado....man that thing ran! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towtruck Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 also noticed that the station wagon hash job has vent windows real toronados never had them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 William, Time was when you could see "engineering prototypes" being driven on the streets, around Detroit, and I would assume (considering that the Toronado Wagon was built in Lansing (the home of Oldsmobile), and quite probably in Flint, where Buick and Chevrolet were both hatched. In addition, Studebaker prototypes were often seen in on the streets of South Bend IN, Nash and AMC prototypes in and around Kenosha WI. Art From 2001 to 2010 I worked in Pearl River, New York, which is the border town with Montvale, New Jersey. Montvale is US headquarters for Mercedes, BMW, Mini and Saab. You never knew what you'd see on the roads locally with Manufacturer plates on them. Everything from test cars covered in black, Euro only cars like Smart Cars not available in the US to new Peugeots and some odd stuff that never made it to production. Stuff does hit the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatz4u Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 My vote....Photoshopped!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Though the picture is of a 4-door wagon, I think they could have given it a lot more flair if they'd added more style to the C-pillar, echoing a 50s Nomad, or Toronado roofline reference. But maybe they hadn't gotten to that stage yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 My vote....Photoshopped!!! Not photoshopped. There are several different photos out there of the exact same car. One of the earliest photos I ever saw of that Toronado station wagon, was in the May 1969 issue of Motor Trend. In an article called "Tenacious Toronados." The caption under the photo says, "Another styling experiment features station wagon components on Toronado chassis, eliminating driveline bump." In the article itself it states, "A Toronado station wagon has been driving around in a lot of minds since the car was introduced. Grafting here and there with stock Olds station wagon components, the men with torches have come up with attractive, functional Toronado wagon. It's a great idea to utilize the unique capabilities of Toronado's front-wheel-drive." As I can see from the photos I've seen, this car did not use "stock Olds station components." So the article got that wrong. The main focus of the article was on the Toronado XX. Basically a shorten AMX like Toronado. After they were finished with the Toronado XX as a show car, it spent several years at Olds' main Lansing plant with a wooden bumper on the front. Used to push other vehicles if needed. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 It was built back in the day, by Oldsmobile's Engineering Department at Lansing MI. Pretty neat car if you ask me! Interesting to note. The other car in the same driveway with the Toronado wagon, looks to be another Oldsmobile. '64 or '65 F-85/Cutlass? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordairgtar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) Then there was this... http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/540801-870-0.jpg?rev=2 http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/540951-130-0.jpg?rev=3 Edited November 26, 2014 by lordairgtar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Then there was this...http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/540801-870-0.jpg?rev=2http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/540951-130-0.jpg?rev=3 Tell us more. The front wheels hint Toronado. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordairgtar Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) Article in one of the Hemming's publications. http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2014/07/01/hmn_feature5.html It's alluded that the front bits came from a test mule. Could it be from that wagon? Edited November 26, 2014 by lordairgtar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I wonder why they used a Pontiac wagon instead of an Olds? An Olds body would have at least had rear wheel openings that looked like they belonged in the same family.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Just for kicks... here's the other end of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 There were no full size Olds (or Buick) wagons in that period, and the midsize body was narrower than the Toronado...so the Pontiac body would have been the biggest one available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 As for the Toronado being a "personal luxury car", along the lines of say, Thunderbird (which car pretty much invented that concept in post WW-II America), it was more of a 6-passenger 2-door hardtop... http://testdrivejunkie.com/1979-oldsmobile-toronado-commercial/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 There were also some wild dual rear axle Toronado airport wagons built as well.. http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/a/aqc/aqc.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbwelda Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 so now what I am wondering is if the wagon was front wheel drive, or if maybe it was basically a Toronado nose put on the rear wheel drive chassis and body of the wagon. like as a design exercise. maybe that is where the Toronado nose came from, the design for this wagon? that's pretty wild speculation so if anyone knows better feel free to say so. it does seem to have Toronado wheels though. and it remains butt ugly from the back too. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Just for kicks... here's the other end of it... Notice, the tailgate cuts into the bumper. Indicating maybe a lower cargo floor than your normal wagon? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbwelda Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 yep that would make sense and also be a rationale for building the wagon: FWD so more space in the back without the pumpkin and axle. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 Notice, the tailgate cuts into the bumper. Indicating maybe a lower cargo floor than your normal wagon? Scott Well, it could well have used a dropped rear axle, seeing as how no differential to deal with. Makes sense to me. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 so now what I am wondering is if the wagon was front wheel drive, or if maybe it was basically a Toronado nose put on the rear wheel drive chassis and body of the wagon. like as a design exercise. maybe that is where the Toronado nose came from, the design for this wagon? that's pretty wild speculation so if anyone knows better feel free to say so. it does seem to have Toronado wheels though. and it remains butt ugly from the back too. jb Well, considering that it was Oldsmobile's Engineering Department, makes sense they'd use the Toronado front drive--see how the concept would function out on the road? Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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