NormL Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I know personally I am interested in being able to use it for modeling. I can see using it for 1/8 scale. However I do not see it usable for 1/25 yet. My curiosity is tough if one could scan 1/25 and print in 1/8. However looking at the fine print on the consumer level scanners, I don't think that is achievable yet. In a commercial grade, I think there is one now that could, and is hand held with real time positioning. Which eliminates the need for any driving scans together. So the technology is evolving. Hopefully within say the next two years as general interest in these technologies grows in leaps and bounds it will drive the home create into creating consumer level pieces useable for our hobby. I am a little curious why you would want to go from 1/25th to 1/8th? Seems backwards to me, well at least to the way I work. Going scale backwards will dramatically increase your error too. Regardless, you need to make a parametric model of what was scanned and that is where the rubber meets the road. Yes, you can print directly from scans and I have done it, but, mesh triangle count gets enormous just for the smallest anything. If you keep your detail at a level that you find acceptable your file will start getting unmanageable and I use some very bad to the bone machines. So really, you need to think about making the mathematical model of the scanned part and that is parametric modeling. It involves very special programs and takes a lot of time to be good at. I did see that one of the small scanners can be had with RapidForm and that is an awesome program for creating parametrics from scan data. I am anxiously watching this unfold, as I purchased my first scanner in 2002 at a very ridiculous price point and have been involved ever since. It shot a 40°x40° window for 350 feet and had very noisy data. I am curious most for where the level of average expertise in 3D modeling will fall. I know it will not be zero, as nothing will get printed, but, where will it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FASTBACK340 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Speaking of 3D printing gathering steam....... http://www.lostateminor.com/2013/05/30/dita-von-teese-makes-3d-printed-fashion-sexy/ http://www.designboom.com/design/3d-printed-lingerie-at-the-victorias-secret-fashion-show-12-11-2013/ I'd say it's getting, umm...."legs". And more than metaphorically! BTW: Both of these stories were on the local news here in NYC.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) And did anybody see this one? http://wot.motortrend.com/1312_porsche_provides_3d_printer_blueprints_for_scale_model_cayman.html Yup, no way this tech'll ever catch on for car models in the foreseeable future. And I wonder what kind of "fudging" was necessary to get that one looking so accurate... Edited December 12, 2013 by Chuck Kourouklis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony T Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 http://www.porsche.com/international/cayman_3d/ Link to 3D data file download to print your own Porsche Cayman, directly from Porsche! Saw this on Facebook just now, thanks to Auroblog.com. How many car companies will do this kind of thing? Doesn't need a model car company to make a promo! As you can print your own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Yeah, looks like poor ol' Harry was so-o far off - The print-it-yourself model hasn't arrived from a kit manufacturer, but from an actual car company. Yeah yeah yeah. It ain't a complete kit... YET. Mr P. might have the actual good taste not to crow a bit. But I sure wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas SCR Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Full chassis with built in 2inch drop from RS (Roadster Shop) helped on it. But like any thing else that has been said doing 1/24 scale stuff as in lettering and such for the home machines are way far from it. Plus there is a lot more then you want to think about before buying one as in time, lots and lots of time for printing this chassis is 18hrs from start to finish for all the parts. For a motor block it's 12hrs and so on, yes bodys are achievable but think of not just 8 injecter pin spots but houndreds of to the support the 90 angle for the roff, trunck and so on. The 2 ply machines like what shapeways and the big industerial machines has you will never see them get to the home stage because of the hazmate laws. Even the one of the top leading companys out in Salt Lake that was there for the GSL said the same thing. We will be left with either ordering and paying the price for what you want like a normal machine shop will do the work for you or just go with out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappabear1973 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The reason why I would wish to be able to go from 1/25 to 1/8 it's very simple. Because there is tons available in 1/25 and squat available in 1/8. Sure there is half a dozen different kits and two or three different after market venders offering a small hand full of usually pricy pieces. Not like the hundreds of kits, tons of after market venders with thousands of affordable pieces in 1/25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaver Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 This is only useful to members here that are around the Richmond Virginia area . I got an e-mail from a local television reporter that a tattoo shop in the "Short Pump area is now offering to do 3-D printing and that INCLUDES MODELS AND Parts . I'll be contacting this shop in a few days as I'll be doing a report for a magazine I now write for . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Joseph Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 The reason why I would wish to be able to go from 1/25 to 1/8 it's very simple. Because there is tons available in 1/25 and squat available in 1/8. Sure there is half a dozen different kits and two or three different after market venders offering a small hand full of usually pricy pieces. Not like the hundreds of kits, tons of after market venders with thousands of affordable pieces in 1/25. You will get a poor-looking 1/8th model because there isn't enough "visual information" in a 1/25th scale part to support the up-scaling. The logical thing to do is find a real original piece and scan it. That's how pattern makers have done things for ages: measure the real thing and then scale it down to the desired size. Truth be told, usually more time is spent editing a 3D scan to make it print-ready than would be spent making a digital model from scratch. But I suppose it all depends on what you want your end result to look like, and how much time, effort, and money you are willing to spend to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) You will get a poor-looking 1/8th model because there isn't enough "visual information" in a 1/25th scale part to support the up-scaling. The logical thing to do is find a real original piece and scan it. That's how pattern makers have done things for ages: measure the real thing and then scale it down to the desired size. Truth be told, usually more time is spent editing a 3D scan to make it print-ready than would be spent making a digital model from scratch. But I suppose it all depends on what you want your end result to look like, and how much time, effort, and money you are willing to spend to get there. Absolutely absolutely correct and spot-on. One of the things that's disappointing some folks about this tech is the expectation that somehow, it's going to allow almost-zero-effort parts output for almost-zero-money. Point-scan-print for a few dollar investment just isn't going to happen any time soon, if ever. Edited December 12, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormL Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) You will get a poor-looking 1/8th model because there isn't enough "visual information" in a 1/25th scale part to support the up-scaling. The logical thing to do is find a real original piece and scan it. That's how pattern makers have done things for ages: measure the real thing and then scale it down to the desired size. Truth be told, usually more time is spent editing a 3D scan to make it print-ready than would be spent making a digital model from scratch. But I suppose it all depends on what you want your end result to look like, and how much time, effort, and money you are willing to spend to get there. You are spot on, however there is a third option that I have used and that is just to take the scan and grab a few points, if I can see how the geometry has to be, and make the geometry by hand. I actually do a lot of that now as i find it the fastest way to the end in many cases Edited December 12, 2013 by NormL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappabear1973 Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Well like I said, I am interested in the whole aspect. The only scanner probably capable of use in this degree is a hundred grand. I don't think the home printers are honestly good enough yet either. So out of my league. But still interested when the time does arrive. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mademan Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 The reason why I would wish to be able to go from 1/25 to 1/8 it's very simple. Because there is tons available in 1/25 and squat available in 1/8. Sure there is half a dozen different kits and two or three different after market venders offering a small hand full of usually pricy pieces. Not like the hundreds of kits, tons of after market venders with thousands of affordable pieces in 1/25. Heres the thing..... If you consider the 1/8th resin stuff "pricey" .... don't bother with 3d printing..... If a set of wheels in 1:25 is costing me around 20-35.00 ..... I don't even want to imagine what a set of 1/8 would cost. Ive got allot of 3d printed parts, flowmaster mufflers, pro-chargers, a number of wheel sets, and a few other detail items, and none of it was cheap in 1:25 scale....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormL Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Heres the thing..... If you consider the 1/8th resin stuff "pricey" .... don't bother with 3d printing..... If a set of wheels in 1:25 is costing me around 20-35.00 ..... I don't even want to imagine what a set of 1/8 would cost. Ive got allot of 3d printed parts, flowmaster mufflers, pro-chargers, a number of wheel sets, and a few other detail items, and none of it was cheap in 1:25 scale....... It is not that hard to figure the difference. 1/25th to 1/8th is 3.125 numerically, so it is 3.125 x 3.125 x 3.125 in volume or 30.5 times the volume = cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 3D printing buildings now http://www.pinterest.com/3DPrinterBlog/3d-concrete-printing/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpride Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 NormL said "If a set of wheels in 1:25 is costing me around 20-35.00 ..... I don't even want to imagine what a set of 1/8 would" I only build 1/4 scale models and the cost is pretty heavy for printing components. I have had quotes like $750.00 for just the wall of a M&H Racemaster slick. That's why I don't get stuff printed in Australia. The HK print cost $400.00 and was quite good. Even printing at 16 micron layers still requires cleanup and parts at 1/25th scale still look like a "stack O plywood" Norm, a lot of my work now is converting point cloud to parametric to stl to print or cnc. I guess by your description of what you are doing with the scans, you are constructing splines on a surface then using lofts to fill? I have used that method on an ultralight prop scan to get a series of profiles then lofted for cnc router. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 From AutoBlog.com http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/10/porsche-cayman-3d-printer-video/ Have you got access to a 3D printer? Well lucky you, because as we're rapidly learning, the possibilities are virtually endless. And if your tastes lean towards the automotive (as we'd assume they do if you're reading this page), we've got good news.Porsche has just released 3D printing data for the Cayman S so you can three-dimensionally print out your own and customize to your heart's content. Now Porsche hasn't specified just to what scale the data will allow you to print your Cayman, but we have a feeling that'd mostly be limited by the size of the printer at your disposal. Check it out in the video below and follow the link to the Porsche site to download the file http://youtu.be/1aJ48gCblHQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSNJim Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Very cool. Just downloaded the zip file which contains one print.stl file. It was a pretty quick download over my cable internet connection - maybe 2 minutes if that. I don't have a 3D printer, but I'm holding the download in reserve for the day I have access to one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 As I've said before, we may never see the day that most modelers have 3D printers on the bench, but it's entirely reasonable to envision a world where most hobby shops have printers. Porsche has demonstrated the ease with which these files can be shared, so why not envision online-catalogs of available 3D-printable parts or kits? You pick what you need, forward the files to your LHS, HobbyTown, Michaels or whoever, and pick up your finished parts when they're done. It adds a nice little profit-maker to an existing business without having to stock a wide variety of oddball parts that may never move off the shelf. The scenario is not unlike the days when even a lot of businesses relied on shops like Kinkos for their copying and printing needs, before desktop printers became ubiquitous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 As I've said before, we may never see the day that most modelers have 3D printers on the bench, but it's entirely reasonable to envision a world where most hobby shops have printers. Agreed. Think about how few guys have a lathe today. That's probably around the number of guys who will excel at this work and take the plunge to buy their own 3D printer. Heck, there's guys here that don't own a regular printer, and guys in my club who don't have a computer at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormL Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) Norm, a lot of my work now is converting point cloud to parametric to stl to print or cnc. I guess by your description of what you are doing with the scans, you are constructing splines on a surface then using lofts to fill? I have used that method on an ultralight prop scan to get a series of profiles then lofted for cnc router. David, good to hear I am not the only doing this! I do use lofting, but, not as much as you might think. Lofting is a great tool, but, as you probably know it can have its dark side when you try to find that little reason it won't allow you to do what you want. I am a land surveyor by trade so I have some very awesome geometry programs and will find the basic geometric shapes that must have been the original design and extrude them fillet and chamfer from there. This works great for manufacturing shapes, however, there for fender curves and shapes like that, RapidForm or finding splines and lofting works the best That Porsche is a nice little model of course, good detail that the prints I have seen don't really demonstrate: I uploaded it at 1/25th scale to Shapeways just to see the cost of a solid design like that. $256 in WSF and $1205 in FUD. Might want to plan on hollowing it out if you are going to print this, LOL. The stl as downloaded is full size Edited December 14, 2013 by NormL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Norm and David, Is it possible to extract or separate an individual part from, say, the Porsche above, or is the program written to print everything as one object? Can you for instance isolate a 2"x2"x2" corner of the one-piece Porsche, allowing you to print only one wheel, tire, brake, and anything else which fits within that cube? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormL Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Yes, it is a surface file that you download. You can cut it however you want and then just make sure it is a water tight solid and export again. An stl is a standard print file and does NOT contain the model as a mathematical version, only a surface TIN (triangular irregular network) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas SCR Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 And like normal thing it comes down to time = money as it will take a while for a machine to do it, The videos on any subject of this has been alter so much it's not even close. LSX block setting at time to make a motor block and what quality it is brake down, .3mm layer thick worse quality 9hrs, .1mm layer thick mild quality but still needs clean up and smooth out. 14hrs .050 layers very smooth and good quailty 21hrs and at .008mm layer thick. No clean up, smooth as injectioning mold 36hrs for just a motor block. Now take that into tieing up the machine for this much time' not a lot of people will spend what it will take to make such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpride Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I had a look at the Porsche stl download. It's detailed but the mesh is not very clean. I found it odd that the $15000.00 program crashed trying to open this file but the free one(open source) opened it without any problem. It would take a bit of work to shell this for printing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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