Tamiya Ford Mustang GT4

[Dave Van]

3 hours ago, Luc Janssens said:

Here's the instruction sheet...so one can prepare...

https://cdn.simba-dickie-group.de/downloads/300024354/300024354_Ford_Mustang_GT4.pdf

 

That's kinda mixed bag.  Some details look fantastic. And if the kit fits as well as their DTM Alfa then a great kit. But the semi-curbside thing is odd. 10 more parts and a lift off hood/fender unit and it would equal the DTM kits.  I am still in for two kits. 

[Mr mopar]

1 hour ago, Luc Janssens said:

It's kinda strange how they designed that, and from the look of it it wouldn't taken much, to make it full detail, maybe depending on sales a next version could be, or wait for the aftermaket to step up

I can only hope someone steps up and make a resin engine for this kit ? with more detail .

Edited March 29, 2020 by Mr mopar

[niteowl7710]

Have to consider the target audience.  Race car builders buy and build multiples of these things under different liveries.  Pretty much none of which will be the Ford Promo livery the kit has inside of it.  Engines are nice thing, but by and large something we (yes I'm now speaking for all of us ) don't need in a kit because it's just something that slows down trying to build a half dozen Mustangs in rapid succession.  I'm sure someone like USCP or maybe Hobby Design (they did a set to add an engine and open the doors for the AMG GT3 Tamiya kit) will come along to fill the void for the people who HAVE to have an engine in there.

[Jhedir6]

A couple things to keep in mind about the kit not having a full engine...First, Tamiya has to get the ok from Ford to do it. Ford may not have wanted the full engine shown or since the engines are prepared for Ford by Roush Yates maybe Tamiya could not get the licencing from them? Second, as James said, maybe Tamiya is looking at the fact that there will be many aftermarket decals sets for the car and felt that leaving the top of the engine out wouldnt matter since most people build and display race cars as a whole unit to showcase the livery. To be honest, no matter what, it's all speculation on our part as none of us work for Tamiya or Ford so we cant know for sure without a concrete statement from one of those two entities. 

As for the car itself, Tamiya has the files on the  whole car. I was in contact with Multimatic here in Canada and I was told that Tamiya came to Canada and 3D scanned the entire car, inside and out so they have the files for the details of engine bay and the trunk for the fuel system but neither are replicated for whatever reason. 

I'm leaning towards licencing. The car ran in 2017 in NA on Continental tires and in Europe on Pirelli's (if I remember right) and neither of those companies have decals in the kit. Licencing again possibly? 

Regardless it's a modern Mustang and we haven't had one of this gen from anyone as of yet other than diecast. I plan on converting one of them to a GT350 with the help of a diecast since it does not look like anyone is going to make a GT350 in plastic at this point. With the 2020 GT500 here, maybe someone will do that?

For the engine. I put a bug in Misha's ear (Ukrainian Scale Car Production) about maybe doing a full engine TK. He did one recently for the reissue of the Ford Escort Rally car and it looked fantastic. 

I'm pretty happy for this kit. I plan on building at least 5, just based off the liveries I like, as well as another for the street GT350(R) and possible more, I'll have to wait and see what decals come out for this one.

 

[martinfan5]

6 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

  Pretty much none of which will be the Ford Promo livery the kit has inside of it.

I will be one of the few that will, even gonna get the correct paint ??

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by martinfan5

[Jhedir6]

2 hours ago, martinfan5 said:

I will be one of the few that will, even gonna get the correct paint ??

 

 

Me too. I actually like those liveries. They call them Goodwood and Promotion, but that's how Multimatic runs them normally. I'll just add in the Continental decals for the 2017 season and then the Michelin decals for the 2019 season if I can find enough of each.

Which paint colour you getting Jon?

[martinfan5]

5 minutes ago, Jhedir6 said:

Me too. I actually like those liveries. They call them Goodwood and Promotion, but that's how Multimatic runs them normally. I'll just add in the Continental decals for the 2017 season and then the Michelin decals for the 2019 season if I can find enough of each.

Which paint colour you getting Jon?

Thinking about doing the grey David, from the info I was seeing posted about it on a Ford Forum, its Ford Stealth Gray B9

[Jhedir6]

1 minute ago, martinfan5 said:

Thinking about doing the grey David, from the info I was seeing posted about it on a Ford Forum, its Ford Stealth Gray B9

Yep, that's correct, though I got E9, but yes, Stealth Grey from the 2017 Ford Focus RS. Gravity is working on having that this week hopefully.

[martinfan5]

15 hours ago, Jhedir6 said:

Yep, that's correct, though I got E9, but yes, Stealth Grey from the 2017 Ford Focus RS. Gravity is working on having that this week hopefully.

Its an interesting grey, it changes under different lighting conditions

[Jhedir6]

33 minutes ago, martinfan5 said:

Its an interesting grey, it changes under different lighting conditions

It does.  When I was discussing it with the Multimatic guy I asked which Grey they used at a different race ( I forget which) cause I had two pics, one of the car looking very light and another looking quite dark 

and he assured me that the car is and had always been the Stealth Grey. It just absorbs the light very differently. Darker inside and under indirect light and very much a light grey in direct sun. Hopefully the paint I got will do the same. I love both ways the colour presents itself.

[tim boyd]

You guys already know how I feel about this so I will make it short and brief 

It amazes me that once again Tamiya gets a breather for omitting the engine - arguably the single most important part of a race car - from this kit.   Sorry,  a few pieces depicting what looks like an engine from underneath does not even get close to cutting it in my book.   

The rest of the kit looks just great - but without the engine it is just becomes a huge fail, and a huge missed opportunity not only for us kit builders, but for the kitmaker as well. 

     TIM

[highway]

1 hour ago, tim boyd said:

You guys already know how I feel about this so I will make it short and brief 

It amazes me that once again Tamiya gets a breather for omitting the engine - arguably the single most important part of a race car - from this kit.   Sorry,  a few pieces depicting what looks like an engine from underneath does not even get close to cutting it in my book.   

The rest of the kit looks just great - but without the engine it is just becomes a huge fail, and a huge missed opportunity not only for us kit builders, but for the kitmaker as well. 

     TIM

Yes, it might be one of the most important parts of the race car (last time I checked, a car doesn't get too far without a highly skilled driver) and if you watch racing regularly, you'll also know it is the BIGGEST GUARDED SECRETS IN RACING!!  Sure, it sounds like the car the kit is few years old by now, but there may or may not be secrets under the hood the team doesn't want reviled to the public, because rival teams could buy the kit just as easy as any of us can to try to learn about the car. 

I tire of seeing these complaints of engine VS curbside, because in my honest opinion it doesn't matter to me because no matter if the kit is Tamiya, Revell, Aoshima, Meng, Italeri, AMT, Monogram, or Fujimi, 99.99% of the time the built model is going to be sitting on my shelf with the hood CLOSED so I really don't care if a kit has a fully detailed engine or is a curbside.  

[CabDriver]

I’m with Tim on this - I’m sure at $43 retail Tamiya couple have factored in an engine...but also, I’m sure Tamiya knows their audience and they seem to be doing ok as a business so I guess they figure most of their customers DON’T want one.  
 

Not exactly new for Tamiya though - I WISH their Mk1 Miata kit had an full engine (and pop up lights) too, but the kits where they do include one have proved they can do a really nice job of it and still have a kit that practically falls together

[CabDriver]

3 minutes ago, highway said:

Yes, it might be one of the most important parts of the race car (last time I checked, a car doesn't get too far without a highly skilled driver) and if you watch racing regularly, you'll also know it is the BIGGEST GUARDED SECRETS IN RACING!!  

Not so much of a secret that there aren’t already hundreds of pictures of it online though, in this case:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mustang+gt4+engine&client=firefox-b-1-m&prmd=sinv&sxsrf=ALeKk03IDHBJpCopnHsn2G0gHM9w4Otewg:1585620449668&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjbpZq90MPoAhWRmHIEHcyKCVwQ_AUoAnoECA0QAg&biw=414&bih=716&dpr=2

[willimo]

2 hours ago, tim boyd said:

You guys already know how I feel about this so I will make it short and brief 

It amazes me that once again Tamiya gets a breather for omitting the engine - arguably the single most important part of a race car - from this kit.   Sorry,  a few pieces depicting what looks like an engine from underneath does not even get close to cutting it in my book.   

The rest of the kit looks just great - but without the engine it is just becomes a huge fail, and a huge missed opportunity not only for us kit builders, but for the kitmaker as well. 

     TIM

As a young(er) person in this hobby (lol, nearing 40) I've spent so much time being lectured by the old guard about how stuff doesn't get made because of licensing issues, I don't even want to hear about it being a limited engine. Get over it. Cry about it. Write Revell a letter about how they should have done it instead with a weirdly chopped roofline. Oh wait, they're bankrupt from making the models y'all wanted. 

Also kits cost $40+ now. Not under $20. Not $5. Not a nickel. We live in the future. Act like it.

Ban me lol.

Edited March 31, 2020 by willimo

[djflyer]

3 hours ago, tim boyd said:

You guys already know how I feel about this so I will make it short and brief 

It amazes me that once again Tamiya gets a breather for omitting the engine - arguably the single most important part of a race car - from this kit.   Sorry,  a few pieces depicting what looks like an engine from underneath does not even get close to cutting it in my book.   

The rest of the kit looks just great - but without the engine it is just becomes a huge fail, and a huge missed opportunity not only for us kit builders, but for the kitmaker as well. 

     TIM

If this kit counts as a "huge fail" then so are ALL of the domestic kits ever produced that had a one-piece chassis with nothing but molded in blobs of plastic trying to represent the suspension, exhaust, and driveline components.  AMT, MPC, Revell, Monogram, JoHan, Lindberg, et al ALL get failing marks for trying to sell junk like that, right?

I'm no fan boy of any manufacturer, including Tamiya, but I would have to question two things about the missing engine detail in this kit.  1. Would Ford/Roush even consider licensing the engine detail and how much would it have cost?  2.  Modern vehicles have ALOT going on under the hood (especially racecars) so how complex would the tooling have to be to get it right, and again how much would that have added to the cost of the kit?  Tamiya likely had a price point in mind for this kit and I dont doubt what's in the box represents their best efforts to produce a quality product that meets that target.

While I'm disappointed that there isn't a complete engine in any kit - especially racing subjects - I'm more concerned that whats in the box is accurate and correct for the vehicle its supposed to represent.  Is it well molded, are the details and shape correct (everybody insert their most hated badly shaped kit here), and is it actually the scale it says on the box?  Those are the things I will judge in deciding whether a kit is a 'pass' or 'fail'.

[martinfan5]

1 hour ago, djflyer said:

If this kit counts as a "huge fail" then so are ALL of the domestic kits ever produced that had a one-piece chassis with nothing but molded in blobs of plastic trying to represent the suspension, exhaust, and driveline components.  AMT, MPC, Revell, Monogram, JoHan, Lindberg, et al ALL get failing marks for trying to sell junk like that, right?

I'm no fan boy of any manufacturer, including Tamiya, but I would have to question two things about the missing engine detail in this kit.  1. Would Ford/Roush even consider licensing the engine detail and how much would it have cost?  2.  Modern vehicles have ALOT going on under the hood (especially racecars) so how complex would the tooling have to be to get it right, and again how much would that have added to the cost of the kit?  Tamiya likely had a price point in mind for this kit and I dont doubt what's in the box represents their best efforts to produce a quality product that meets that target.

While I'm disappointed that there isn't a complete engine in any kit - especially racing subjects - I'm more concerned that whats in the box is accurate and correct for the vehicle its supposed to represent.  Is it well molded, are the details and shape correct (everybody insert their most hated badly shaped kit here), and is it actually the scale it says on the box?  Those are the things I will judge in deciding whether a kit is a 'pass' or 'fail'.

I don't care if kits have engines or not ,  so my reply is not to counter that ?, the engine in the GT4 is the Ford Voodoo engine, its the same engine used in the  GT350/350R , its not a purpose built race engine from Roush Yates Engines.   Revell was able to do the Ford GT engine that Roush Yates builds/built, so yes, its possible.    I fully agree, with your other points that you made in your post

Just for reference , here is the engine compartment on the GT4

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by martinfan5

[niteowl7710]

On 3/30/2020 at 12:07 AM, Jhedir6 said:

I'm leaning towards licencing. The car ran in 2017 in NA on Continental tires and in Europe on Pirelli's (if I remember right) and neither of those companies have decals in the kit. Licencing again possibly? 

The series that GT4 runs in IMSA has also had it's tire sponsorship change from Continental to Michelin, I'm not sure what British GT and FFSA (French GT4) were running their cars on without digging up photos.  Makes the most sense to Tamiya - who doesn't wanna license bupkiss lately - to just bow out and leave that mess for the aftermarket.

[niteowl7710]

My favorite bit of hypocritical two step this forum does, that I love the most is the...

Revell makes a mess of something - We should all just be happy we get model kits at all.

Tamiya decides not to put an engine in this thing to keep costs down, and there hasn't been a modern race car with a full engine in it (no the top half insert in the R8 doesn't count) since 2013 (Aoshima Lamborghini Murcielago GT1 - which is also more of a function of it also being a street car kit)  - WHINE WHINE WHINE, MOAN, WHINE - with a Tim Boyd on top.

 

Lambasting a new tool kit of a modern subject because it's not molded the way you want vs. giving a free pass to the company who can't seem to get body proportions right, makes basic molding errors (everyone remember the '30 Ford's bomber interior is molded in inverse relief of it's correct design), and lately can't print a decal sheet to save itself is - say it with me now - H Y P O C R I T I C A L

[Bennyg]

1 hour ago, niteowl7710 said:

My favorite bit of hypocritical two step this forum does, that I love the most is the...

Revell makes a mess of something - We should all just be happy we get model kits at all.

Tamiya decides not to put an engine in this thing to keep costs down, and there hasn't been a modern race car with a full engine in it (no the top half insert in the R8 doesn't count) since 2013 (Aoshima Lamborghini Murcielago GT1 - which is also more of a function of it also being a street car kit)  - WHINE WHINE WHINE, MOAN, WHINE - with a Tim Boyd on top.

 

Lambasting a new tool kit of a modern subject because it's not molded the way you want vs. giving a free pass to the company who can't seem to get body proportions right, makes basic molding errors (everyone remember the '30 Ford's bomber interior is molded in inverse relief of it's correct design), and lately can't print a decal sheet to save itself is - say it with me now - H Y P O C R I T I C A L

I’m actually really pleased with the Tamiya kits lately, subject matter and execution. I’m currently building the Toyota GR Supra and it’s fantastic. My next build will be a mustang gt4. 
 

I’m mainly a truck modeller, But these Tamiya kits are just fantastic.

Ben

[Jhedir6]

4 hours ago, martinfan5 said:

I don't care if kits have engines or not ,  so my reply is not to counter that ?, the engine in the GT4 is the Ford Voodoo engine, its the same engine used in the  GT350/350R , its not a purpose built race engine from Roush Yates Engines.   Revell was able to do the Ford GT engine that Roush Yates builds/built, so yes, its possible.    I fully agree, with your other points that you made in your post

Just for reference , here is the engine compartment on the GT4

 

 

Yes its based off the Shelby GT350 but it does infact have a Roush-Yates engine in it.

https://performanceparts.ford.com/gt4/

But, it doesn't really matter, there's no engine in it. This is not the first kit ever produced without an engine and it will undoubtedly not be the last. As far as everyone being upset that a specific kit is not 100% to your liking.....start your own company and produce kits exactly how you like them to be produced. Then sit back and watch the criticisms roll in on all the stuff you didnt do that other people would have. 

[vintagerpm]

I don't really care if the model has an engine or not. I like a car because it looks good, has great lines. With the hood up, that breaks the line and ruins the look. So hood down on all my models anyway.

Mike

[tim boyd]

Well,,,,,in 40+ years of writing about model cars, I've been called many things, but this is the first time I ever recall being called "Hypocritical" in a public forum. 

Ironically, at certain times that's what I've privately thought while reading comments that put import kitmakers on a pedestal reading "those who can do no wrong" while continually bashing (sometimes with full justification, other times not so much) the domestic kitmakers.   You wanna talk about one piece blobs of chassis detail found in domestic kits tooled in the 1960's?   OK, fine, let's compare those to the import kitmakers' "kits" tooled in the 1960's.....yes....those incredibly poorly rendered, distorted blobs with battery powered engines.....not today's newly tooled kits from all the kitmakers, be they domestic or imported.  Incorrectly flipping the inner door structure ribbing on the '30A Coupe kit....well, that's a far more relevant comparison, although in my own view it doesn't quite match up to omitting an entire upper engine and engine compartment structure.  Getting basic body proportions wrong...well now that's a pretty major fail that deserves every bit of criticism that applies.  That makes it much less likely that a given kit will be built...just as an omitted engine compartment also makes it less likely a kit will be built (at least by some of us).   

Guys, I respect and even cherish the various views expressed here, and am greatly encouraged that this forum brings a voice to a diverse group of younger (relatively speaking) model builders who bring much needed fresh perspectives to our hobby.   One of those perspectives is that clearly that some (or even many?) of you do not place the value on completely detailed innards - specifically in the engine compartment, that some others of us others do.  Fine, viva la difference! 

And i am not going to begin to suggest that Revell, Round 2, Moebius or anyone else for that matter, consistently belongs at the top of the kitmaker pile.  I also wish to acknowledge my appreciation  for today's imported kitmakers, particularly so Tamiya, for their vast range of modeling kit topics (including some subjects that the domestic kitmakers should have, but declined to, put into kit form),  the new techniques and innovations that they have brought to the hobby and the art of kitmaking,  the assembly quality and fit/finish they achieve, and their unwavering support of the publications that chronicle kit building in all its forms.   There is no doubt that they have been a great contributor to the success of model car building.  

But they, nor any of the kitmakers of this world, are above criticism when the shoe fits.   And in this case, the lack of an engine compromises what this kit could have accomplished for the hobby and for the kitmaker, not to mention those of us builders out there who still believe that for the price these kits demand, they should be complete in every detail.  

In this forum, I readily acknowledge that I am clearly in the minority in this view, but this is my strongly held belief and I will stick to it until the day I die.  Nevertheless, I acknowledge the right of other members of this forum to express their strongly held views as well.   I hope we can continue this discussion, but hopefully without name calling going forward.   

Best to everyone...TIM 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by tim boyd

[iamsuperdan]

Thanks for that Tim.

I am always disappointed when I get a kit without an engine. ESPECIALLY when it's from Tamiya. Those kits are priced well above the Round2 or Revell kits, so I feel I should get a "full" kit.  Yes, they are better engineered and more detailed, but still.

Having said that, the lack of an engine rarely stops me from buying a kit. At the end of the day, when it's on the shelf, no one is looking for an engine.

[Dave Van]

Tamiya will sell a ton of these kits.  I'd like a model engine in the kit........I am ordering 2 of the kits....may never get to building them....hope to....but I have 5K others in line in front of them.  

Owning these two Mustangs may make me bias.......