Opinions on upgrading rare vintage cars

[Mike Young]

Hey guys, still new here and haven't posted anything yet. For my first real post, I thought I'd get some opinions on something I am struggling with a little.

I have a few older original issue cars I've acquired since getting back in the hobby. Nothing too crazy, mid 60's stuff, but kinda rare. I am wanting to take more detailed modern kits and kitbash these older ones for a more detailed finish. I have already started on one, a '66 Barracuda I'm building as a replica of my car, and am really happy with the results so far. But now I've acquired one I'm not sure I should change given it's rarity.

In the 1:1 world, where I've been playing for the last 30+ years, the same thing happens. You find some old 60's car you want to make into a hot rod, but you then decide it has too many rare options, or it's just too clean to modify. There is the old saying, "Anyone can restore a car, it takes a real man to cut one up.", but even the most inclined to hack away can find themselves questioning that philosophy once in a while with certain cars.

My current apprehension in the model world involves an older built, '67 Ford Fairlane I just acquired. I really needed a few '67 specific parts to make resin copies of for a '67 Ranchero project I'm getting ready to tackle, but then I'll have this Fairlane wanting attention. It's missing pieces and is kinda rough, but there's enough '67 specific parts there and it's totally savable. My first inclination is to pick up a '66 and upgrade it, but now I'm not sure. Looking around, it appears to be more rare than the others I've picked up, maybe I shouldn't bastardize it.

What would you guys do?

[espo]

I think if you look around the Forum you'll find what you are describing is pretty common. Check out the Car Resin section and use the list if suppliers their. Sounds like you'll find a lot of suggestions here also since there is a large Ford contingent here also. Welcome aboard, look forward to seeing your build.  

[Tom Geiger]

In the model car world the equivalent of hot rodding or customizing a nice stock car would be the “to build or not to build” a mint in the box unbuilt kit.

There are collector types who want to preserve that kit and the there is the builders contingency who would say a kit was made to be built. As far as monetary value, the mint boxed kit will be worth more than the average built kit.

As far as how you build it,  that’s up to you. For instance if I was building a 66 Barracuda kit (note- I used to own a 65) I’d be going for more detail than that original kit included. I’d be putting the more detailed modern tool AMT 71 Duster chassis under it, fully detailing it out under the hood etc. And in your case, I’d go ahead and build a replica of your 1:1 because it would make you happy.

Of course how you build and your skill level comes into play. There are guys who build poorly and essentially devalue the kit and there are talented guys on this board who have sold gorgeous models for over a thousand dollars.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Unless it's a virgin in the box with everything intact, I say have at it.

I have a very few models that qualify as "collectible" and that I have zero intention of building, but a whole lot of rare and unusual kits that will be heavily modded.

Far as real cars go, I've wanted a '30-'31 Ford coupe hot-rod for decades. I came across a very nice older restoration-to-original for decent money a few months back. But as rare as these things are relatively unmolested, I just didn't have the heart to buy it to hack up.

On the other hand, if it had had a nice body but was a generally crapp car otherwise, I would have jumped it in a heartbeat.

[Snake45]

47 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I have...a whole lot of rare and unusual kits that will be heavily modded.

Some days, all that keeps me going is, I hope to live long enough to see you actually finish one of them. Any one of them. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Snake45

[Ace-Garageguy]

32 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

Some days, all that keeps me going is, I hope to live long enough to see you actually finish one of them. Any one of them. 

[89AKurt]

Daring question to ask right out of the box!  This is strictly my opinion, worth about $2 (inflation).  Some buy rare, collectible, and if on eBay expensive kits, just to say they have them and collect dust in the basement collection.  They prolly pull them out on occasion, and look at the box art, and resist opening the 1 mil plastic that makes them more collectible than opened kits, so they don't know if the tires have melted on the plastic parts and ruined the real value of the kit.  I guess that's sort of exciting, like buying a Playboy and never looking at the centerfold.  Have to confess, have a few kits still wrapped, but in some cases have another that is opened, one case is the AMT Mercedes 300SL, I have an old box art version still wrapped but a "regular" kit ready for my attention.   I got a Dodge Stealth Indy Official Car kit when it was new, figured it would become a collectible, but they made a million of them, and the value went up about a penny, so I built it.  IMHO it's dumb to buy a model and never build it, on purpose.  I've built a couple of old Monogram slot car kits, with unusual engines kit bashed, sacrilege on more than one level.  Yes, I'm not normal. ?

So I suggest not worrying about the arbitrary perceived value of a model kit, building them is really the important part.  For an example, if these were the real thing, I would be shot for butchering museum pieces with a stellar history, purists would hate on me.  As far plastic models go, the one brand is extinct, the box art makes you think it's a nice kit, but when you look at the toy-like motorized engineering it's horrible.  The Tamiya is a desirable kit because it builds nice, and is scarce enough to be priced ridiculous on eBay.  But I don't care, because there is no kit of the C-111 at all, diecast is another story.  Hope this helps......

[Snake45]

33 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Ah, so THAT is your plan! 

We'll see how that works out for ya. 

[Plowboy]

I say build it and make it what you want. I've done a few rare ones and haven't regretted it at all. Would you rather see it built into something you love to look at or see it laying in pieces in a box? Here's some that I've done just what you're talking about.

[Mike Young]

Nice replies! Yeah, it's not the purest of starting pieces, as '67 Fairlanes go. I just had this feeling like I'd be committing the old sacrilege if I started hacking on it. To be fair, I would still build it as a stock build of a GT, but with better looking parts than what they had to offer 53 years ago.

Here's my jumping off point. As you can see, it is missing a lot of parts and it needs some repairs. Looking at it again, this is probably what I should start with for a sacrilege build. lol!

[Mike Young]

For some perspective on where I'd go with the Fairlane, here's where I've gotten with my '66 barracuda build.

'71 Duster for the chassis and engine compartment. Some GTX front seats, a Dart console, some Fireball 500 seat inserts, and the rear seat, arm rests, door handles and steering wheel are all scratch built. The steering wheel started as a Corvette wheel. I still need to make the rear armrests, but otherwise, the interior is almost finished. It takes a lot of donors to make these things happen, but it's all worth it!

[gtx6970]

I have one  kit that will remain sealed inside.  (Barry Setzer Vega aa/fc)

 

All others are fair game.

I bought a mint unbuilt  original issue1959 Edsel conv. ......promptly built it. 

 

[Snake45]

9 hours ago, Mike Young said:

Nice replies! Yeah, it's not the purest of starting pieces, as '67 Fairlanes go. I just had this feeling like I'd be committing the old sacrilege if I started hacking on it. To be fair, I would still build it as a stock build of a GT, but with better looking parts than what they had to offer 53 years ago.

Here's my jumping off point. As you can see, it is missing a lot of parts and it needs some repairs. Looking at it again, this is probably what I should start with for a sacrilege build. lol!

 

That doesn't look bad at all--a darn fine starting point. At least you have one taillight--if you can't find another, you can sili-clone that one. It looks like you're doing good work with that Barracuda, too. Drive on!

Your project reminds me of a '67 Cyclone I have in the works. Couple years ago I bought at the local toy show an original annual AMT '67 Cyclone because IMHO the old body is MUCH better looking than the current issue. It was missing some interior and chassis parts, but not a deal killer, I can get those out of a "new" one. Only snag was the hood had been cut open for the injectors, but that's fixable. 

After stripping the old paint, I had a change of plans. I'd always wanted a Burgundy '67 Comet on my shelf in honor of an old friend's car, but this one stripped so cleanly, to such nice, beautiful virgin 1966 white styrene that now I'm planning to polish it up in white. Now the hole in the hood is a HUGE problem. So I watched eBay and it took me about a year but I scored a second one with an intact hood. Haven't stripped it yet but I've got my fingers crossed that that hood will strip as clean as the first body. And I can use the leftover parts (second body with first hood repaired) to build a whole second car in my originally desired burgundy. 

Keep us posted on both your Fairlane and Barracuda projects. A lot of us here would be interested in your work. Drive on! 

[Muncie]

You've come to the right place to ask that question.  Pretty universally, everybody here is a builder and that's the answer you will get - I agree with what's been said -  go for it.  You have a nice start with both the Fairlane and the Barracuda.

[espo]

You are starting off on this Fairlane with a lot more than what many on here have done. I would suggest finding either the  AMT '66 Fairlane or the Mercury Comet for a lot of bits and pieces and start having some fun, and of course please post your build. 

[Tom Geiger]

Per your Fairlane, there’s nothing wrong with restoring an old built up in the manner you choose. There are old builds that exhibit a classic build style from the past and I will preserve them as the folk art of our youth. There is nothing significant about that Fairlane so anything you do is an improvement.

Per your Barracuda, that’s exactly how I’d be building it! Creating a modern full detail model of an old subject. 

[afx]

I really enjoy taking a much older kit an adding better tooled underpinnings to it. As an example this '61 Falcon I bought that was just body bumpers and glass - turned it into a gasser using modern tooled period parts.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by afx

[Chariots of Fire]

Nothing sacred in this hobby.  I say, if you enjoy building, do it!  Vintage or current day, what's the difference?  I suppose if you are a kit collector you might cringe at my opinion but that's ok too!?

[thatz4u]

what the heck, when you get right down to it, It's only plastic.

[Mike Young]

I think with the right amount of patience, and plenty of other projects to work on in the mean time, I can wait for the seats to show up on Ebay. The rest can be sourced from a '66. The only part I would have to make is the tail light, but at least I have the one to copy. I do still need to take a copy and turn it into a Ranchero tail light as well, that's going to be fun.

My biggest problem is one I'm sure I share with a lot of guys. The old ADD. Too many shiny spoons around the work bench. Lol!

[Mike Young]

Or........this is another possibility.

[gtx6970]

I say build what you want the way YOU want it.

Purists be damned.

 

I've been down the road to update old kits , but the past 20 years or so I just leave them out of the box stock . Simply because I don't do contests and don't feel the need to add a lot more work when 90 % of it cant be seen in my display case

[Mike Young]

That's

1 hour ago, gtx6970 said:

I say build what you want the way YOU want it.

Purists be damned.

 

I've been down the road to update old kits , but the past 20 years or so I just leave them out of the box stock . Simply because I don't do contests and don't feel the need to add a lot more work when 90 % of it cant be seen in my display case

That's a good point. Although, I have to admit, maybe 5-10% of what I build will ever see a display case. I have a bad habit of getting into all the difficult custom scratch building stuff, then lose interest at the final paint and assembly stage. To be fair, I think the only things I've ever finished were box stock builds, go figure. lol!

[StevenGuthmiller]

The only thing that really makes me cringe is when someone butchers the body of a perfectly good vintage kit.

Once you have chopped and channeled a body, there is no return.

 

In my opinion, these old kits cry out for us to preserve them in some sense of the word for a possible future restoration from the next generation of modelers.

That being said, I don't see any problem with modernizing what is there to start with.

 

I'm a factory stock nut, along with a vintage kit freak, and nothing brings me more pleasure than taking a rare old kit and updating it with modern kit parts to today's standards.

The way that I see it, as long as the body and necessary parts to build a stock model are retained, everything else is gravy.

A chassis or engine can be changed in the future.

A chopped top cannot be un-chopped.

 

There are few rarer examples of a vintage kit than the Johan 1968 Olds 442, yet I had no compunction with completely rebuilding the interior and doing a complete swap of the chassis and engine.

I feel that the kit has benefited from the modifications rather than suffered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

[Mike Young]

Yeah, I've seen your build. Truly inspiring, I envy your talent.