Never Say Never about old kits. "New Era Modeling"

[thatz4u]

I would like to see 1970 AMX, same year Cougar, 1960 conversion parts for the AMT 60 Ford to Meteor such as ..

[Carmak]

I am aligned with Daddy Fink and Snake about curbside / Craftsman kits being a good direction for clones.

The curbsides have a low part count and therefore lower engineering cost, tooling cost and plastic cost. Great bang for the buck.

The new Charger R/T kit probably has triple the engineering cost and double the tooling cost of a curbside clone kit.

Carmak

[Oldcarfan27]

On 11/22/2022 at 1:06 PM, Fat Brian said:

Oh boy, off the top of my head

68 LTD

68/69 AMX

71 Javelin 

Early 60s Cadillacs

69-71 Lincoln MkIII

50s-70s station wagons

Early 80s Ford Ranger pickup

73 Chevelle 

You may not be an older builder, but you've sure got the spirit of one. I like all your choices!!!

[Straightliner59]

On 11/22/2022 at 10:33 AM, Daddyfink said:

I think both new and old, resurrected, kits are very possible, but, if they are done in a curbside fashion. 

Sure, it is nice to have tons of details, but, it takes time and money to do all that design and tooling. Do a great body and chassis, maybe a separate hood, and go to town! Not every car came with a cool looking engine or options, and honestly, who is going to see it while it sits on the shelf or in a box? Plus it would equal a lower purchase price at retail. 

The new '68 GTO and re issue Comet are great examples of this. 

Just my thoughts, you mileage may vary

I hear you, Jesse. Over the last few years, I've gravitated a lot toward curbside stuff. Besides, it's not that difficult, if one is so inclined, to open the hood and put an engine in.

[br67]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:01 PM, MrObsessive said:

It runs the gamut.........the Opel file he charged $10 to create it, then it was another $40 to get the completed files. There's another file out there I want created, and this particular designer is charging $180.

Now that is covering no doubt multiple formats. Not just .obj, but Vray, .stl, 3DSMAX, etc........

I thought it would be a lot more than $180

i wonder if he would be interested in doing a Kellison then?

 

[MrObsessive]

19 hours ago, br67 said:

I thought it would be a lot more than $180

i wonder if he would be interested in doing a Kellison then?

 

Most designers need certain views to do a car, namely orthographic of the side, front and rear, and maybe the top. If there are good pics out there for them to go by, it probably can be done.

The designer is a fellow by the name of "BrunoMCardoso" on CGTrader. I already converted several files of his to print, and they're very good, as well as the files themselves are very reasonably priced.

[lordairgtar]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:22 AM, thatz4u said:

I would like to see 1970 AMX, same year Cougar, 1960 conversion parts for the AMT 60 Ford to Meteor such as ..

Yes, atleast doing the grille and tail lamps. The rest I can scratch build. I'm surprised that someone hasn't offered the bits as a conversion kit. Not many want it I suppose but I certainly do

[stavanzer]

On 11/22/2022 at 9:33 AM, Daddyfink said:

I think both new and old, resurrected, kits are very possible, but, if they are done in a curbside fashion. 

Sure, it is nice to have tons of details, but, it takes time and money to do all that design and tooling. Do a great body and chassis, maybe a separate hood, and go to town! Not every car came with a cool looking engine or options, and honestly, who is going to see it while it sits on the shelf or in a box? Plus it would equal a lower purchase price at retail. 

The new '68 GTO and re issue Comet are great examples of this. 

I think Jesse is correct about this. I foresee a mix of Curbside Kits with optional Underhood / Engine upgrades, and more complicated kits with all of the details in one package. I can see that Two Tier Pricing and Distribution System might arise, where a kit is sold as a barebone Curbside and a more comprehensive "Detail-Up" version is offered with Photo-Etch, and Decal options. It would resemble the way Eduard sells Airplane kits. The top would be the Royal Class, going all the way down to just a bare bones kit. (or print).

If the subject matter interests you, you have a choice. Pay more for an all inclusive box with tons of stuff, or get the basic components, and add parts from your stash. I think this might be a viable option in a few more years. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by stavanzer
spelling errors

[Justin Porter]

1 minute ago, stavanzer said:

I think Jesse is correct about this. I foresee a mix of Curbside Kits with optional Underhood / Engine upgrades, and more complicated kits with all of the details in one package. I can see that Two Tier Pricing and Distribution System might arise, where a kit is sold as a barebone Curbside and a more comprehensive "Detail-Up" version is offered with Photo-Etch, and Decal options. It would resenmble the way Eduard sells Airplane kits. The top would be the Royal Class, going all the way down to just a bare bones kit. (or print).

If the subject matter interests you, you have a choice. Pay more for an all inclusive box with tons of stuff, or get the basic components, and add parts from your stash. I think this might be a viable option in a few more years. 

Oddly enough, Hasegawa already very much has this business model sorted for auto kits. Their "core" line kit like the basic Miura SV, the Mazda Cosmo, or the Lancia Stratos Stradale are all sub-$40 retail kits. Then you have the "Limited Editions" of those kits where they have options for specific versions or the included standing or sitting girl figures or include additional PE which tend to retail between $50-$65. Finally you have their "High Detail" versions that have resin engine bays and combine resin, white metal, and photo-etch for a super detailed build out of the box and those come in at around $100+ when I'm able to stock them. 

[stavanzer]

1 minute ago, Justin Porter said:

Oddly enough, Hasegawa already very much has this business model sorted for auto kits. Their "core" line kit like the basic Miura SV, the Mazda Cosmo, or the Lancia Stratos Stradale are all sub-$40 retail kits. Then you have the "Limited Editions" of those kits where they have options for specific versions or the included standing or sitting girl figures or include additional PE which tend to retail between $50-$65. Finally you have their "High Detail" versions that have resin engine bays and combine resin, white metal, and photo-etch for a super detailed build out of the box and those come in at around $100+ when I'm able to stock them. 

So, the business model is established and working for at least two different model companies.  That means that it can work elsewhere as well. Be neat to see how the Hobby grows as new players enter, and older, established players adjust to the new tech.

[Justin Porter]

1 minute ago, stavanzer said:

So, the business model is established and working for at least two different model companies.  That means that it can work elsewhere as well. Be neat to see how the Hobby grows as new players enter, and older, established players adjust to the new tech.

Absolutely and it very much allows customers to establish what they prioritize. I've carried (and built) Eduard aircraft kits and I will freely state that the Profipacks make for a nice upsell opportunity for an engaged shop clerk by simply comparing the price of the Profipack to the price of a Weekend Edition to which you add aftermarket decals, a pre-painted photoetch fret, and a pre-cut canopy mask. And to demonstrate the business model in action through Hasegawa, behold their Toyota 2000GT. 
 

[niteowl7710]

Kinda, sorta, but I say no. First of all most if the Hasegawa kits that are getting resin girls are older kits that were tooled up in the 90s, that everyone already has a copy of...adding the resin girl is less about creating a "sales tier" than it is pushing out an old kit with a new bit in hopes that people buy a 2nd (or moreth) kit. The High Detail kits are reissues, those were created when these kits (2000GT, 89C, etc) were brand new - again back in the 90s. So in a technical sense it does create a "top tier" model, but only for about a half dozen kits that have all received the same treatment in the past.

[Brian Austin]

Polar Lights did that years ago with their 1966 Batmobile kits: Snap curbside and fully-detailed versions.  I got the simpler one, a nice kit in its own right.

[keyser]

The screams about the price tiers would awake the dead, cause earth to spin off axis, and the boards will melt down. 

[Daddyfink]

6 hours ago, keyser said:

The screams about the price tiers would awake the dead, cause earth to spin off axis, and the boards will melt down. 

... meanwhile, at the LHS...

[niteowl7710]

In furtherance of my point of Hasegawa being new dog, old kits - in February they're reissuing that kit again, but this time with a newly tooled set of wire wheels.

If you bought every version of the 2000GT that Hasegawa has plopped into the market since the current cycle of new car tooling being their main focus (post 2016) you'd be sitting on NINE of these things at this point. Pricewise it slots in above the standard issue but always in the catalog 2000GT (by $6) but below the 3 race car kits, and both resin girl kits...

Actually FWIW the entire 02/23 release slate is recycled kits with new decals with a WRC Corolla for Valentino Rossi, a 72 Season Celica Race Car, the aforementioned 2000GT and these two as well. A ZG with new Watanabes (which say C110 on the runner tag, but neither 70s Skyline kits have come with these so far) and the venerable Bluebird SSS with Mooneyes decals.

All of these kits are about trying to bilk..err convince modelers to buy another version of a kit they probably already own several copies of already.

Edited December 7, 2022 by niteowl7710

[iBorg]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:24 AM, niteowl7710 said:

A bigger issue with 3D printing as it currently stands is there's no industry standard by which all printers operate. Until the machines function as ubiquitously as a toaster or a microwave instead of a whole new expensive and time consuming hobby I don't see a future of actual Revell "PrintHome! Model Kits". Files that work on one printer often times won't work on another without tweaking to supports/slicing to say nothing of the wild variation of build plate sizes, print depth (height) and resolution.

It's great for aftermarket, it's great for home use (if you have the time, energy and finances to sink into learning it), but it's still quite a ways away from it's full potential in the "Press a Button and Out Pops XYZ" that is touted for the machines.

This is a very valid point. I remember when laser printers were first available.  You had to have an Apple printer for an Apple, a Mac printer for a Mac (even through they were made by Apple) and had similar limitations on the windows side. Adobe introduced the concept of Postscript which is a common printer language. That opened the floodgates to printer availability to the consumer.

 

[keyser]

2kGT’s look so good with wires. 
Z’s and Watanabes or Minilites. 
Wish they’d do a Bluebird 2door, or SSS. 

[stitchdup]

40 minutes ago, niteowl7710 said:

In furtherance of my point of Hasegawa being new dog, old kits - in February they're reissuing that kit again, but this time with a newly tooled set of wire wheels.

If you bought every version of the 2000GT that Hasegawa has plopped into the market since the current cycle of new car tooling being their main focus (post 2016) you'd be sitting on NINE of these things at this point. Pricewise it slots in above the standard issue but always in the catalog 2000GT (by $6) but below the 3 race car kits, and both resin girl kits...

Actually FWIW the entire 02/23 release slate is recycled kits with new decals with a WRC Corolla for Valentino Rossi, a 72 Season Celica Race Car, the aforementioned 2000GT and these two as well. A ZG with new Watanabes (which say C110 on the runner tag, but neither 70s Skyline kits have come with these so far) and the venerable Bluebird SSS with Mooneyes decals.

All of these kits are about trying to bilk..err convince modelers to buy another version of a kit they probably already own several copies of already.

I guess I'm the target market in a way. I missed the kits previously and for a couple of years its been the only way to get the 1/24 kubelwagen and t1 van. I've got the bugs too so i have loads of resin japanese teens i have no use for, i just wanted the kits

[keyser]

Teens generally no use to anyone resin or otherwise. 😱🤦🏻‍♂️

Edited December 7, 2022 by keyser

[oldcarfan]

I was thinking about the Chevy II wagon I recently bought and about companies cloning old kits. That made me wonder if someone, say, Round Two were to get the rights to Johan for instance, could they clone some of their offerings with new technology? Maybe use new scanning and 3d printing to make mold inserts or whatever. Though simplified, Johan had some accurate body lines. It'd sure be nice to get a new copy of the 1970 Javelin or Maverick. I don't know how the tech has proceeded, but several years ago I worked for a company that was starting to use that tech for small-run plastic parts for some military applications.

[niteowl7710]

2 hours ago, oldcarfan said:

I was thinking about the Chevy II wagon I recently bought and about companies cloning old kits. That made me wonder if someone, say, Round Two were to get the rights to Johan for instance, could they clone some of their offerings with new technology? Maybe use new scanning and 3d printing to make mold inserts or whatever. Though simplified, Johan had some accurate body lines. It'd sure be nice to get a new copy of the 1970 Javelin or Maverick. I don't know how the tech has proceeded, but several years ago I worked for a company that was starting to use that tech for small-run plastic parts for some military applications.

Jo-Han doesn't in that way exist anymore. Copy the kit, tweak things to make it better (like losing the axle through the engine) and release it. It's not like Okey is in a position to do anything at this point to make the actual original kits and the tooling is either lost or beyond reasonable financial reach. 

[Daddyfink]

21 hours ago, keyser said:

2kGT’s look so good with wires. 
Z’s and Watanabes or Minilites. 
Wish they’d do a Bluebird 2door, or SSS. 

I am really surprised they have not done the SSS Coupe, considering it is mostly at JDM car. Also, a wagon would be very cool! 

[thatz4u]

On 11/25/2022 at 5:25 AM, MrObsessive said:

Most designers need certain views to do a car, namely orthographic of the side, front and rear, and maybe the top. If there are good pics out there for them to go by, it probably can be done.

The designer is a fellow by the name of "BrunoMCardoso" on CGTrader. I already converted several files of his to print, and they're very good, as well as the files themselves are very reasonably priced.

I liked his Lt. Colombo convertible

[Oldcarfan27]

14 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

Jo-Han doesn't in that way exist anymore. Copy the kit, tweak things to make it better (like losing the axle through the engine) and release it. It's not like Okey is in a position to do anything at this point to make the actual original kits and the tooling is either lost or beyond reasonable financial reach. 

That's exactly what Hasegawa did with their "American 66" line. They copied the bodies of four annuals and sold them as slot car or R/C cars first, then made them into static kits later. 

I suppose if it worked for them, but you'd still need to get licensing rights or else call the cars "Type A" or whatever. Not that that has been much of an issue here.