Trans-Am the pony wars....

[Luc Janssens]

Gents...

Was reading a tread about what cold be next at Moebius and saw pics of Trans-Am racers.

Therefore the above question....

 

Edited February 25, 2017 by Luc Janssens

[garagepunk66]

I personally love those cars, but i'm not certain for accuracy's sake of a real race version that Moebius is the right manufacturer, nor is Revell/Monogram. I'd like to see some high-end, full-detail kitting of that subject matter from Tamiya or Fujimi, although scale would undoubtedly be 1/24, not 1/25. 

 

 

[MrObsessive]

There's one missing...............1969 Pontiac Trans Am! Yeah, I'd love to see this one particularly if it can be offered as a 2 in 1 kit. I made mention of this to Ed Sexton of Revell at the NNL East last year, and he wrote what I said down. We'll see if it ever happens.

[Luc Janssens]

There's one missing...............1969 Pontiac Trans Am! Yeah, I'd love to see this one particularly if it can be offered as a 2 in 1 kit. I made mention of this to Ed Sexton of Revell at the NNL East last year, and he wrote what I said down. We'll see if it ever happens.poll

Bill, for some reason there's a 5 choice limit in the poll format

 

[MrObsessive]

Bill, for some reason there's a 5 choice limit in the poll format

 

Hmmm.......that's interesting!

Well, I'd take ALL of them if only they could be made street stock as well. The racing liveries would be nice, but that sole option limits sales of those types of cars IMO, as all of them were available at your local GM/Ford/Chrysler/AMC store.

[DrKerry]

I'd like to see them out, even the 69 TA!!!!!!!!

[DrKerry]

double posted for some reason

Edited February 25, 2017 by DrKerry

[MrObsessive]

I'd like to see them out, even the 69 TA!!!!!!!!

Just to further expand on my conversation I had with Ed Sexton at the NNL East last year------I had mentioned that they pretty much have everything on hand to make this car. They've already done the '68 Firebird, so there's your chassis, the body was a slightly tweaked version of the Camaro, and you already have the '69, you'd just need the proper engine and interior. 

He did say wasn't this car done before? I told him it had been by MPC, but that one is woefully inaccurate body shape wise (and other things), and there's never been a modern glue kit done of the '69 Firebird/TA.

As I mentioned before, he nodded his head in agreement, wrote it down, and said that they'd definitely take a look at it. Time will tell if we see this on our LHS shelves. 

Edited February 25, 2017 by MrObsessive

[DrKerry]

Just to further expand on my conversation I had with Ed Sexton at the NNL East last year------I had mentioned that they pretty much have everything on hand to make this car. They've already done the '68 Firebird, so there's your chassis, the body was a slightly tweaked version of the Camaro, and you already have the '69, you'd just need the proper engine and interior. 

He did say wasn't this car done before? I told him it had been by MPC, but that one is woefully inaccurate body shape wise (and other things), and there's never been a modern glue kit done of the '69 Firebird/TA.

As I mentioned before, he nodded his head in agreement, wrote it down, and said that they'd definitely take a look at it. Time will tell if we see this on our LHS shelves. 

Kool beans. Ed seems to be the type to want to work with people to get ideas for new kits. I've talked with him a few times to on stuff!!! Awesome guy!!!

[unclescott58]

I'm a little confused by this poll. I like several of the cars listed. And I do think there is a market for Trans-Am pony cars. But, I think there is also a market for any of the above cars in stock form too. I personally have no interest in Trans-Am racing cars. I'd like to see the above kits offered in a 2-in-1 type format. One where you can build a showroom stock version, and a Trans-Am racer. Back in the old days they offered us kits like that. Why can't they do the same thing today? 

Scott

 

[oldcarfan]

I built some of these cars back in the 80s using the available kits and Fred Cady decals, unfortunately they were lost when I got out of the military and the movers squished some boxes. I would love to see a series of Trans Am kits, but I would prefer them to be a street body car for a specific reason.The problem that I see with the race versions is that they had flared fenders and other non-street mods so kit manufacturers would have to tool up two separate kits to do street and race and I don't think the market would support a series of Trans Am only kits.

But if they provided the basic street cars, the aftermarket could pick up the difference. There were so variations from team to team and even race to race that it would make more sense to do maybe a 2-N-1 kit to build a street stock bodied car and include the basic race parts, i.e. a roll cage, seat and some Minilites and let the aftermarket jump in with detail and decal sets. That way you could buy the kit and then choose which team car you wanted to build and order the parts and decals designed for that car. This would get around some of the licensing issues as well. There were so many teams and sponsors that that could be a logistical nightmare. Also, by doing this it would leave the door open for the Grand Am NASCAR versions and don't forget the drag versions of these cars. Who wouldn't love a Grumpy's Toy Camaro a Sox and Martin car or a new Dragon Lady Javelin?

It is way past time for a 68 Mustang coupe and the 69s Mustangs we have are not very accurate. There are already lots of decent Camaros to choose from already, don't forget the Sunoco 69s that Penske built. The Challengers and Cudas kits are out there and reasonably well designed. The Javelin and the Firebird would be much appreciated. While I'm on the subject, how about the under 2.5 liter cars, we already have the BRE 510 kit and I think someone did the Alfa Romeos years ago.

Sorry, I just realized I'm rambling, I've been up for a while and had 2 Super Caff-Pows and a lot of tea!

[Luc Janssens]

I'm a little confused by this poll. I like several of the cars listed. And I do think there is a market for Trans-Am pony cars. But, I think there is also a market for any of the above cars in stock form too. I personally have no interest in Trans-Am racing cars. I'd like to see the above kits offered in a 2-in-1 type format. One where you can build a showroom stock version, and a Trans-Am racer. Back in the old days they offered us kits like that. Why can't they do the same thing today? 

Scott

 

In his day and age, multiple versions are a must, I'm only trying to find out if Trans-Am is a viable alternative version or not.

Then I need to find out how much of the content can be shared between stock and racing, because that can be a deal breaker too 

[Dave Van]

I'd love some Trans Am kits........

 

[afx]

The cars where the most stock appearing in '66-'68. In '66 even stock interiors where required.  Each successive year more and more modifications where allowed and the fender bulges and flares continued to grow to allow wider tires and wheels. If the intent is to have a multi-use casting I would suggest they stick to the '66-'68 year cars.

Edited February 25, 2017 by afx

[afx]

Two books I recommended on the subject for those that care to know more.

If this is too far off topic please let me know and I will delete the posts.
 

Edited February 25, 2017 by afx

[Lizard Racing]

As I figure it, all that would be required to make a street car into a Trans-Am ('66-'70) is a non-molded in back seat, roll cage, instrument insert engine and wheels/tires.

This era would be easy to do because the cars started out as stocks, then modified.  No tube frames and race suspension.

A good example is the MPC '70 Javelin.

[Can-Con]

I don't usually do race cars but that's mostly from lack of kits that interest me.

I'd love to do some Trans Am cars though and if they could also be built street stock, well all the better.

[Roger U]

I voted for my choices and I'd also like to have the '69 Pontiac Trans-Am available. The 2 in 1 format would be nice.

[Sport Suburban]

I would love to see any of these race cars in kit form. It would have to have an accurate body for the race car. I think many would complain about a stock body in a race car kit at the current kit prices.

Also having a race version of the 69 Trans Am would be kind of funny since it could not race in the series it was named after! I read in a book recently that that fact had a lot to do with why they only sold 600 of them but the Z/28 sold near 30,000 units in 69. They were allowed to race the 69 body in the 70 season with a 305 Chevy motor but was not competitive. This may not be fully accurate but it is what I remember reading.

[Can-Con]

I found this thread on the '69 Firebirds. Pretty interesting stuff.

 

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7815.0

[afx]

Thanks for posting that link Steve.  The book I referenced above The Cars of Trans-Am Racing tell the same story that the '68/'69 Firebirds where at a minimum powered by the Chevrolet 303 and in some cases just re-skinned Camaros.

[espo]

For the most part  the basic kits that would be needed to build the SCCA / Trans Am over 2 liter cars are readily available. The Camaro bodies from '67 thru the second generation are well represented. Just use the induction from the Revell '69 Camaro Z28 kit. The Ford Mustang is also available in various year models and again minimal engine modifications. The Chrysler products are also available to a lesser degree and you would need a Chrysler small block to complete the look. The AMC Javelins would be the perfect car for someone to kit. The only ones I remember that may work are the older NASCAR kits that could be easily converted, but find one. I think there would be a small market for say a 2in1 or even a 3in1 kit. I would buy one. This sounds to me like something that Round 2 might do if they have the old molds. The Firebird? I personally would welcome a '69 Firebird, but would enough others share that felling to where it would be profitable ?  One thing to remember with the Firebirds, they couldn't build a competitive 305 cu. in. engine from their existing engines at the time. The only really competitive Firebirds were the Canadian models. These were Firebirds built and sold in Canada. Canadian Firebirds often used the Chevrolet engine, and since the Chevrolet 302 could conceptually have been  put in a Canadian Firebird that is how Pontiac got around that. And yes some teams got very creative and put Firebird sheet metal on their Camaros and said Yada Yada its a Canadian Firebird.       

[afx]

A '67 notchback Mustang has never been kitted to my knowledge. The '67 and '68 Cougar where only issued once IIRC.  A proper '69 Mustang would certainly be welcomed as would a '69 or '70 Javelin.  The '67/'68 Camaro and a '70 Mustang make the least sense. 

[MrObsessive]

Readily available notchback Mustangs kits stop at '66, although there is the VERY rare '69 or '70 Revell one (or MPC?). Either which way, I wish there WAS a kit of the '67-'68 as it would have saved me a TON of work on my Green Hornet project! Why that notchback's been overlooked is beyond me.

[garagepunk66]

As I figure it, all that would be required to make a street car into a Trans-Am ('66-'70) is a non-molded in back seat, roll cage, instrument insert engine and wheels/tires.

This era would be easy to do because the cars started out as stocks, then modified.  No tube frames and race suspension.

A good example is the MPC '70 Javelin.

well, maybe for a 1966 car, but these evolved into VERY "worked" race cars in very short order. later cars had no upholstery except for the seat and maybe front door cards before 1970, so a separately tooled floor pan with interior ribbing, rear axle cooler cutouts and pivot boxes for upper suspension links would be required. probably two trees worth of race-specific parts would also be needed including the extensive engine compartment/shock tower bracing, fully adjustable specialized anti-roll bars with roller links (look very different from OEM), Watts linkage, fuel cell, dry sump parts (legal for 1971 season), Harrison-type engine oil and rear axle lube coolers, specific 4-wheel disc brakes and ducting, etc, etc.  Even the body profile was changed considerably on the Bud Moore prepped Mustangs as the nose was drooped by 2 inches! Round 2 nor Revell/Monogram would NEVER put the proper effort into replicating this stuff correctly into any existing kit or new tool that had a dual purpose as a production replica.