Why haven't the model companies addressed the problem with tire melt ?

[Greg Myers]

Hmm, i've not experienced the so-called "tire melt" in perhaps 40 years now!  WTF is going on here?

You don't have much of a stash

You don't build older kits

40 years ? That;s a long time, 1977 ? 

[Danno]

I've been building car models for 49 years now (I'm not as old as Art!) and I've never had a burned or melted tire.  

What am I doing wrong? 

[RancheroSteve]

What am I doing wrong? 

I guess you just need to buy kits of the right vintage that have been stored under "special" conditions.

[Can-Con]

It does affect Japanese kits sometimes too.

I have one of the Hasegawa '66 Pontiac Bonnevilles with those beautiful whitewall tires. The white is styrene and it's now quite melted and deformed in the tires.

[peteski]

Another problem I've seen on mostly die-cast Chinese made small scale models (1:43 or 1:64) which are mounted on plastic bases is that the tire material oozes out some sort of clear liquid (plasticizer?) which then softens the plastic base so the tire makes a depression it in.  That is probably similar to the tire rot experienced in the 1:24 plastic kits.  I blame this on using cheap tire-molding ingredients to save on manufacturing costs.

[zenrat]

I have issues with tyres sticking to the shelves in my display cases.  Just the vinyl tyres and they only stick to varnished or melamine shelves.  I have always assumed it is caused by the same plasticisers leaching out as causes tyre burn.
I have to remember to be carefull picking up a build just in case doing so too roughly leaves a wheel behind.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by zenrat

[Art Anderson]

You don't have much of a stash

You don't build older kits

40 years ? That;s a long time, 1977 ? 

Only about 3,000 or so kits here.

 

[Eshaver]

The vinyl compounds we knew in 1960  area FAR CRY from the ones we have in kits today . In fact , I would venture to say the Hard vinyl we had then was obsolete by about 1980 or so .

[Greg Myers]

This is turning into a typical thread here on this board where so many deride the given facts, with rosey comments   putting all concerns aside. Yep it's all better now, the problem no longer exist, not to worry.

 

[djflyer]

I had a look at a few tire sets I have as no built-ups are still around similar to the timelines others have mentioned.

Turns out I have what is supposed to be a Pegasus set of wheels and tires where the tires seem to be reacting to something. The "rubber" appears to be drying out as I noticed a crack on one edge along the rim. I also noticed the plating on the surface of the wheel that contacts the tire is coming off as if it had been rubbed down to the bare plastic in spots. Reaction between the plating and the elastomer perhaps?

I was thinking to seal the rim and then maybe use one of the car care products for rubber on the tires.  Any thoughts?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Turns out I have what is supposed to be a Pegasus set of wheels and tires where the tires seem to be reacting to something. The "rubber" appears to be drying out as I noticed a crack on one edge along the rim. I also noticed the plating on the surface of the wheel that contacts the tire is coming off as if it had been rubbed down to the bare plastic in spots. Reaction between the plating and the elastomer perhaps?

I was thinking to seal the rim and then maybe use one of the car care products for rubber on the tires.  Any thoughts?

Couldn't hurt, but once a crack starts, it's probably going to keep going.

The "plasticizer" simply evaporates out of the "rubber" over time, and the tire gets physically smaller as the plasticizer leaves, and more brittle. 

I've had similar experiences with several Pegasus sets, but they haven't appeared to partially dissolve the plastic rims like some of the earlier tire compounds do.

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The model companies HAVE addressed the problem occasionally, from what I've been able to piece together.

Consider this: I recently bought a Revell 1/8 scale drag bike kit where the hollow front tire had dried out, shrunk, and split into multiple pieces. The rear tire, a solid and heavy compound, was fine.

A later release of another Revell bike kit (that used the same size front tire) had a two-piece front tire made of a harder compound, and included revised instructions.

And then a slightly later 1/8 scale Revell bike that used the same front tire had a further development, with a new one-piece front tire made of a heavy compound like the rear...and an additional instruction flyer included that explained the two-piece front had been replaced with a new one-piece.

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I've also had Tamiya 1/12 scale hollow tires disintegrate from the weight of the model when stored in the typically humid environment where I live.

I'm still looking for a replacement set of tires for this.   

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[gtx6970]

Ive got a few early 60s builtups where the wheel is melting around the edge where it meets the tire. I even have a few early 70s funnycars with the same issue ( them it seems to be on the hollow rear tires only though )

 

Ive heard years ago to wrap  BMF around the rim will prevent it from happening in the future

[Ace-Garageguy]

Ive got a few early 60s builtups where the wheel is melting around the edge where it meets the tire. I even have a few early 70s funnycars with the same issue ( them it seems to be on the hollow rear tires only though )

Ive heard years ago to wrap  BMF around the rim will prevent it from happening in the future

Yeah, either a BMF wrap or coating with a decent epoxy will stop the plasticizer from the tires leaching into plastic rims and softening them (not the 5-minute goo).

AMT's generic solid "piecrust" slicks don't appear to cause the wheel-melting problem, but their old solid Firestone and generic bias-ply tires often do...and they're most often the ones that leave imprints on parts of old vintage kits.

Revell's fat '60s solid M&H slicks also will sometimes melt the rims over time, as will the Revell Firestone "dirt track" fronts in the original Orange Crate kits.

What's interesting is that it doesn't ALWAYS happen. You can have tires that appear to be identical from the same era, and some will melt rims, some don't. Apparently the "vinyl" compound could vary during a kit run.

[John Goschke]

In spite of the fact that I build mostly old kits where dealing with tire melt damage is often an issue, the worst case of melt I've seen is from a more recent kit.

This little horror show came from a 2009 issue of the Revell-ogram '59 Impala hardtop.

The styrene inserts are from the same plastic as the rest of the kit and they are now the consistency of chewy caramel. It's a shame the tires are so toxic because otherwise they're really nice!

[gtx6970]

What's interesting is that it doesn't ALWAYS happen. You can have tires that appear to be identical from the same era, and some will melt rims, some don't. Apparently the "vinyl" compound could vary during a kit run.

Ive noticed this . I have several old builtups where the rims show no signs of issues. Yet on some the outer  edge / lip of the rim is completely melted away .

I doubt its been around long enough to know one way or the other ,,,,but I wonder if a couple coats of Future would help prevent it .

Edited May 12, 2017 by gtx6970

[Ace-Garageguy]

In spite of the fact that I build mostly old kits where dealing with tire melt damage is often an issue, the worst case of melt I've seen is from a more recent kit.

This little horror show came from a 2009 issue of the Revell-ogram '59 Impala hardtop.

The styrene inserts are from the same plastic as the rest of the kit and they are now the consistency of chewy caramel. It's a shame the tires are so toxic because otherwise they're really nice!

Thanks for the heads-up. I never would have suspected something that recent would behave that way, but it's not surprising in light of the sub-spec materials we often get from offshore-made stuff these days.

I have several of those, was intending to use them, and will certainly mark the boxes and take precautions if and when.

...I wonder if a couple coats of Future would help prevent it .

Definitely an idea that's worth trying.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

This is all that was left of a tire in a 1/8 scale Revell kit I recently got in. So far, I haven't noticed anywhere it made an impression on any of the styrene parts in the box as it self-destructed.

[Spex84]

Holy smokes John, I thought those Revell-o-gram tires as seen in the reissued '59 (and '50 Ford PU) were safe to use I guess I'd better keep an eye on 'em.

That possibly the gnarliest tire melt I've ever seen, and I've seen some really bad 60s firestone melt.

[Modelbuilder Mark]

This is all that was left of a tire in a 1/8 scale Revell kit I recently got in. So far, I haven't noticed anywhere it made an impression on any of the styrene parts in the box as it self-destructed.

Wow, looks like dried fruit that has been in a dehydrator too long. 

In spite of the fact that I build mostly old kits where dealing with tire melt damage is often an issue, the worst case of melt I've seen is from a more recent kit.

This little horror show came from a 2009 issue of the Revell-ogram '59 Impala hardtop.

The styrene inserts are from the same plastic as the rest of the kit and they are now the consistency of chewy caramel. It's a shame the tires are so toxic because otherwise they're really nice!

It might be worth making a mold of the insert, and casting them in resin if you have bunch of with these wheels. Were these stored in a hot place?

[John Goschke]

It might be worth making a mold of the insert, and casting them in resin if you have bunch of with these wheels. Were these stored in a hot place?

Room temperature. Here they are when I first got them. I put them, along with the custom Lancer caps from the Impala kit, on this AMT '60 T-bird using old AMT wheel backs and wire axles. I had to wrap some additional styrene strip around the wheel backs to get the tires to fit. Within several weeks the tires had softened the edges of the wheel backs enough that the tires would not stay on and the edges of the whitewall inserts were softened and distorted.

[Spex84]

I just went to my hobby bench to dust off a project that's nearly finish and has been sitting for about a month. I had mocked up the wheels in the tires, just a press-fit, and it sat that way for about a month.

I noticed a suspicious reflection in the seam between the rim and tire, as if I'd painted the wheels gloss black while they were mounted to the tires and I'd accidentally got some paint on the tire...but I painted them separately. Uh oh.

Sure enough, the tires were beginning to melt into the wheels. They're AMT 1931 Ford Woody tires and wheels, from a kit I've had since the 90s. Oddly, In the past I've had those same wheels (unpainted) mocked up in the tires for months at a time with no signs of tire burn.

The back tires on the same project are vintage 60s Dunlops (from a Mercedes kit maybe?), and they did NOT start to melt the wheels...except for one very small patch on one side. Again, I've had wheels mocked up in those tires for months in the past, with no signs of melt.

I'm wondering if the Krylon Gloss Black the wheels are painted with could be an aggravating factor. The paint was surprisingly "hot"--it actually crazed the plastic a little, right through a healthy coat of primer. That was in November, so it should be very much cured by now.

Anyway, I'm going to foil the wheels and hopefully that will forestall the worst of the reaction....

 

[Spex84]

I just discovered something interesting: the wheel/tire combo that I posted about yesterday (AMT '31 Woody) were 2 of a set of 4. The other 2 are on the front of a rat rod I built in 2010...and that model is sitting on my shelf with no signs of tire melt at all. Same storage temperature and humidity as the set that is now melting...same kit,even.

The difference? The wheels that are OK were painted with Plasticote automotive lacquer (?) paint. The other 2 wheels that reacted badly with the tires were painted with Krylon Fusion glass black. That pretty much clinches it for me--the Krylon paint must be involved somehow.

[Bob Ellis]

They put the tires in separate bags now as are all the parts.

I believe tire burn need heat like from the attic. All of the 60s kits that I bought in the 70s were fine until I built them and stored in the attic

[Bob Ellis]

In spite of the fact that I build mostly old kits where dealing with tire melt damage is often an issue, the worst case of melt I've seen is from a more recent kit.

This little horror show came from a 2009 issue of the Revell-ogram '59 Impala hardtop.

The styrene inserts are from the same plastic as the rest of the kit and they are now the consistency of chewy caramel. It's a shame the tires are so toxic because otherwise they're really nice!

Looks like Oreos. yummy!

[zenrat]

I just discovered something interesting: the wheel/tire combo that I posted about yesterday (AMT '31 Woody) were 2 of a set of 4. The other 2 are on the front of a rat rod I built in 2010...and that model is sitting on my shelf with no signs of tire melt at all. Same storage temperature and humidity as the set that is now melting...same kit,even.

The difference? The wheels that are OK were painted with Plasticote automotive lacquer (?) paint. The other 2 wheels that reacted badly with the tires were painted with Krylon Fusion glass black. That pretty much clinches it for me--the Krylon paint must be involved somehow.

I second that.  Worst cases i've had were rims i'd painted with automotive lacquer.
I've also have a true I left in contact with the paint on an adjacent build burn right through Future, Tamiya TS paint and primer to the plastic (which might suggest Future isn't going to protect the rims).

If you want to see just how tyres change as the plasticisers leach out then leave some in brake fluid for a few weeks.  You'll be amazed how much they shrink by.