Is NA$CAR for sale?

[bbowser]

NASCAR just bought the ARCA series and if I recall it already owns the IMSA series.  I wonder if they're part of the deal?  

What happened to N. Wilksboro and Rockingham is a crime.  In an effort to grow (read more $$) they expanded to places like Vegas, Phoenix, and California that have little interest in stock car racing.  New owners might do some good, but then what are the odds?

[OldNYJim]

10 hours ago, Junkman said:

Thanks God there is a lot more racing than Nap Cars

If you're not interested why read this post and then be negative?

[Junkman]

What makes you believe I'm not interested and then negative?

Edited May 9, 2018 by Junkman

[OldTrucker]

California was a failed experiment. They went after a new group of "younger" fans. Good idea in theory but wrong group as they don't seem to have the attention span to become long time fans of anything it seems and after two good seasons the new had worn off and attendance dropped drastically!

If someone buys Nascar the first thing is to drop California and Vegas and Kansas and go back to the short tracks in the southeast!

I would even drop the Indy race. That track was not intended for stock cars to run on.

Also they need to shorten the races. 500 milers just do not make sense anymore. The idea was "endurance" as when they came up with that idea they were running factory built cars so they were actually testing the durability of a production car with the long races!

That is no longer true so no need for a 4+ hour race.

Maybe a shift to sedan class racing like you see in the land down under would be the way to go!

[Rob Hall]

I've been to the races in Phoenix and Fontana a few times, they were pretty good.   

[jp5190]

Maybe they could sell it to Toyota. Then they could call it NAJSCAR,  national association for japanese stock car auto (and truck) racing.  They seem to be the one most interested.

[Jon Cole]

1 hour ago, jp5190 said:

Maybe they could sell it to Toyota. Then they could call it NAJSCAR,  national association for japanese stock car auto (and truck) racing.  They seem to be the one most interested.

Ha! And watch the standard bearers of stock car racing blow their tops! 
Funny how in Indy Car the fans had a cow when Dodge didn't have the then new Viper ready to pace, and wanted to replace it with a Mitsu. Now, Nascar is running Toyota. And the names on the Nascar front bumper area really seem pointless, as someone previously noted.
It is boring. Follow Nascar year after year, as we did, and it starts to get ho-hum. Lets try shorter races with real, actual factory based cars that are prepped for track. And the paperclip oval "AND HE'S GOING DOWN THE BACKSTRETCH! I WONDER WHICH WAY HE'LL GO NEXT???!" round 'n round is... blah. 
They do road courses. They require a special built car. So why not include a dirt track, too? Oval, or road. Build a dirt track car.
And enough of the rolling billboard BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH. 
Not... gonna... happen.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Jon Cole

[Khils]

     Several sequential events of the much loved sport has swung my interest away from NASCAR....since 2001....NO ONE, with intestinal fortitude, to stand up in the driver ranks for the drivers towards, rule changes, points ratings & how they are earned toward championships, becoming a weekly glorified IROC race of different colored ping pong balls, benefiting corporate & driving away any thing resembling what "was" Alan Kulwicki! 

Very sad what is happening to it .....Today.......for as great as it used to be.  Jeff Gordon signed a "lifetime" contract with Hendrick...& got out....even Dale Jr. had enough & got out......and having to listen to DW....I've even had enough also.

  Can't give away what model kits are out there....very minimal new variations of current & even fewer reissues of the true older ones that were North American Stock Car Association of Racers.

To this day...the likes of "gentle giant " Buddy Baker & Harry Gant have ALL my respect! & reflect best of what NASCAR "was"!

[Bucky]

They kinda lost me when front-drive Lumina and Taurus and Intrepids hit the track with rear-drive set-ups. I've never seen any of those in the showrooms!! 

I hafta wonder if the latest crop of  "superstar" drivers could handle the same cars King Richard, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, Cale, and even ol' DW drove back in the sixties.

You know...actual "stock" cars!

[Fat Brian]

I'm just going to say it, one of the best things about racing years ago was the wrecks. It made the race seem actually dangerous and gave the drivers a daredevil aura. My grandpa and I thought we watched Richard Petty die in the front stretch at Daytona. I'm not saying make the cars less safe but there's got to be a way to get back to a more aggressive style of racing instead of riding around for 499 miles and fighting it out for 1. 

[Miatatom]

5 minutes ago, Fat Brian said:

 there's got to be a way to get back to a more aggressive style of racing instead of riding around for 499 miles and fighting it out for 1. 

I think there's a remedy that might help. Old Trucker and I agree, shorten the races to fit into a 2 hour window like F1 and people might come back. Yes, it used to be an endurance race but now, it's just try to last, save your equipment till the last few laps and go for it.

Even Dale Jr. once said the races were too long.

[Fat Brian]

18 minutes ago, Miatatom said:

I think there's a remedy that might help. Old Trucker and I agree, shorten the races to fit into a 2 hour window like F1 and people might come back. Yes, it used to be an endurance race but now, it's just try to last, save your equipment till the last few laps and go for it.

Even Dale Jr. once said the races were too long.

Yep, and going back to a points system where leading laps builds championship points instead of just winning races.

[Rob Hall]

25 minutes ago, Miatatom said:

I think there's a remedy that might help. Old Trucker and I agree, shorten the races to fit into a 2 hour window like F1 and people might come back. Yes, it used to be an endurance race but now, it's just try to last, save your equipment till the last few laps and go for it.

Even Dale Jr. once said the races were too long.

The way I usually watch NASCAR races on TV is just the first 1/2 hr and the last 1/2 hr...in between is just tedious filler.

[Jim N]

1 hour ago, Miatatom said:

I think there's a remedy that might help. Old Trucker and I agree, shorten the races to fit into a 2 hour window like F1 and people might come back. Yes, it used to be an endurance race but now, it's just try to last, save your equipment till the last few laps and go for it.

Even Dale Jr. once said the races were too long.

I don't want to come across as being argumentative, but there are several F1 races where the grandstands look like ghost towns as well.  Hockenheim comes to my mind immediately.  I don't watch F1 all of that much, but if my memory serves me correctly, the tracks that have problems selling tickets are in Europe.  Most of the European countries have advanced economies like ours.  I wonder if there is something going on along this angle.  The car is under attack here in this country as we all know.  Car people view their cars as a prized possession and the many critics of the car are trying to make it a commodity item, like a can of soup.  Other than Silicon Valley making money by the boatload, I am rather certain this is why self driving cars are being forced on the American public.  This is another way to divorce people from their love of cars by making them a commodity.  Europe is well ahead of us in this regard.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Jim N

[webestang]

21 minutes ago, Jim N said:

I don't want to come across as being argumentative, but there are several F1 races where the grandstands look like ghost towns as well.  Hockenheim comes to my mind immediately.  I don't watch F1 all of that much, but if my memory serves me correctly, the tracks that have problems selling tickets are in Europe.  

F1 is up 8% from 2016 to 2017. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2017/12/f1-spectator-figures-for-2017-hit-four-million.html

Edited May 9, 2018 by webestang
added dates

[Earl Marischal]

20 hours ago, tbill said:

I’m not a nascar fan by any stretch of the imagination,  but I gotta tell ya, I think I’d watch if it were like the ‘old days’, slap a factory rwd V8 powered car I can buy at the dealer on the track , and have at it ( obviously with the proper safety equipment installed on said race car) .  You know, the kinda stuff that you can identify even if it has no badges on it, not a bunch of cookie cutter cars with the same roofline etc to make it a level field.....

Isn't that sort of how started all those years ago?

steve

[Miatatom]

1 hour ago, Fat Brian said:

Yep, and going back to a points system where leading laps builds championship points instead of just winning races.

Yeah and get rid of the gimmicky stages where there are 3 "races" in one, again to "create drama". Shortening the races would eliminate the riding around, saving equipment strategy. They'd go for it from the start.

Oh, one more thing, why does a driver get the same number of points for leading just 1 lap and the driver that leads the most laps gets the same amount of points? Seems like leading the most laps should be more points.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Miatatom

[Miatatom]

And finally, one more thing! Why does someone who wins but then is caught cheating get to keep the trophy, cash and points. Sometimes they get fined and the crew chief gets put on probation but typically not much more. In SCCA racing, you cheat, you're disqualified. You drive like an idiot, you'll get black flagged and the chief steward will discuss it while the rest of the cars continue on.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Miatatom

[espo]

I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions on NASCAR and the France family and all the other aspects concerning what may or may not happen with NASCAR. Until a few years ago I had been an avid NASCAR fan going back to the early 1960's. Many things have changed thru the years and it seems that the more resent changes have not been better for the sport and is not working to attract any new fans either. When NASCAR built the new track here in Kansas we bought season tickets and had them for several years before we just stopped seeing the value in the expense. To be fair a lot had todo with the seats that were far to narrow for a bunch of sweaty bodies to sit in the hot sun for hours and have the person next to you blowing their smoke everywhere, it really had become a very  unpleasant experience. The changes to the format of the races themselves have done nothing to improve my desire to even watch the races anymore. I liken the staged races of today with the way Football Games are stopped while the TV stations are on commercial break or even the seventh inning stretch thing. I would hope that they would return to Racing. Start with lightly modified showroom stock type cars. My personal preference would be Domestic only cars but that may no longer be a possibility. The race should run for the distance stated and only stopped for a Red Flag events such as a safety issue on track, not because someone's burger wrapper is flying around. The staged racing of today reminds me of short track racing with a couple of heat races to qualify for the main event. That was replaced years ago with 2 lap qualifications based on time to set the lineup for the race. They just need to get back to racing and leave the rest of the ongoing drama for reality TV.       

[Psychographic]

I originally thought the idea of the stages was a good idea. It would add some actual racing to the whole race and prevent drivers from hanging back for 3/4 of the race. Then I saw the caution would be thrown and it changed my mind. I HATE mandatory cautions! Other than wanting more commercials for TV, there is no need to stop the race. Score the stage and keep racing. No one is tuning in to watch an extra 15-20 laps of cars going 60mph with no ability to pass when they could be racing.

 

My suggestions to improve NASCAR Cup racing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Stock sheetmetal, add a spoiler, airdamn, and sideskirts. No more common templates. I honestly don't care if foreign cars are used, nor do i car if it's a front wheel drive body. Just make it recognizable, even if it was just in primer.

Instead of 500 lap or mile races. 3 heat races of about 50 laps, a 25 lap consi and a 200 lap/mile race. Leave Daytona as it is or was. It's their big race and should have tradition.

Single car teams only! Unfortunately I doubt it could be enforced.

Let the teams design their own drivetrains. Limit Cubic inches to keep the speeds in check.

Make blocking ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If Indycar can do it, so can NASCAR.

Let drivers speak their minds. I'm tired of brown nosing drivers who are fined and afraid to say what they really mean or want.

Bring back more short tracks. They don't all need to be in the southeast either. There are too many 1.5 mile tracks.

The post below reminded me of the biggest thing I hate, the playoffs. Reward the team that had the best full season, not the luck of the last few races.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Psychographic

[Bill J]

All interesting perspectives. So, here is my thoughts on the whole NASCAR can of worms. In the beginning stock car racing was just that, the racing of stock cars. Along the way the sanctioning body and the racers themselves have lost track of this concept. Their excuse is safety (necessary) and reliability (today's stock cars are more reliable). What would you rather see, a race of 40 stock cars or 40 special built, racing only custom made cars? Yes, they put branding n them to make them seem like actual cars. Truth is both the cars and the racing suck.

I first became a NASCAR fan a year or two before getting my first driver license. The one race I really recall was one that had a Ford called a Starlifter. It was 1962 and the car was a boxy Ford Galaxie with the roof replaced with a fastback top from a 1961 Ford Starliner. It made the car much faster by improving aerodynamics and created some excitement and some controversy. Car was banned after a few races. It did create some interest and it was a stock body and chassis car back then. The cars evolved and were regulated to the point that by late 1966 they were custom made cars but still had to maintain certain stock appearances. That actual aspect, of appearing like showroom cars was enough to maintain public interest in the races. Along the way to today, the cars changed here and there until they became the cookie cutter, unrealistic "stock cars" we see today (or don't care to see).

What made racing interesting decades ago was innovation in aero design, engine design and drivers that worked their way from the bottom to the top by being talented, bold and fearless. One of the most important factors effecting fan interest was that the cars raced were nearly identical to the cars we could all buy. Not anything like the custom funny cars they assemble for the series today, there is no relationship other than the occasional logo pasted on the hand made bodies.

If you take Indy car racing as an example, most of us old enough remember when the month of May was special to race fans. The Indianapolis Speedway opened to testing for the Indy 500 and all sorts of cars/builders/drivers showed up to try to make a winning car. We had innovation, we had weird concepts and we had all sorts of powerplants. try to beat the brickyard into submission and win the Indy 500. Cars like Smokey Yunick's sidecar, the Novi powered cars, the turbine cars. Rear engine cars, front engine cars and exhaust pipes out the top of the engine because that was the only way the engine could fit the chassis. The whole experience was exciting, interesting and yeah, dangerous. We, the fans loved it all. Indy car today is as boring as watching paint dry, in comparison to days past.

What is wrong with racing stock cars today? Yes, they'd have to be made safe for racing, roll cages, beefed chassis and other enhancements. The reliability would be demonstrated by innovative design and not by $150,000 hand built engines. Fans would be able to identify with the cars raced, not the logos on them.

While we are at it, NASCAR needs to do away with all their fake drama created by "stages", "playoffs" and "the chase". Who really cares for any of that phony stuff? Has it really added any excitement? No, just hyped nonsense. If I owned NASCAR today, I would sell too before any more of the shiny buffs off of the turd it has become.

[Jim N]

23 hours ago, webestang said:

F1 is up 8% from 2016 to 2017. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2017/12/f1-spectator-figures-for-2017-hit-four-million.html

Thanks for pointing that out.  I also noticed that the track I cited as the ghost town (Hochenheim) is no longer on the schedule.

[niteowl7710]

If everyone loathes NASCAR so much, why aren't you all watching IMSA/Weathertech, Pirelli World Challenge, Blancpain, 24Hrs Series, ADAC GT Masters, FIA GT World Cup or Super GT? 

I mean frankly the GT3/GT4 Customer Racing experience is what you guys are looking for in terms of non-boring, competitive racing with cars that all closely resemble their showroom counterparts (or at least 90% closer than any of the common template NASCAR Era cars). Outside of the big name endurance races, most of the rest of the events are around 3hrs which might be shorter than the average NASCAR race these days with the 129 minutes of mandatory commercial breaks.

Edited May 11, 2018 by niteowl7710

[webestang]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:32 PM, Jim N said:

Thanks for pointing that out.  I also noticed that the track I cited as the ghost town (Hochenheim) is no longer on the schedule.

And the good news this year is the German GP at Hochenheim is back. Also ESPN2 is showing the races with NO commercials! 

[Miatatom]

15 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

If everyone loathes NASCAR so much, why aren't you all watching IMSA/Weathertech, Pirelli World Challenge, Blancpain, 24Hrs Series, ADAC GT Masters, FIA GT World Cup or Super GT?

I do. CBS Sports Channel also shows European FIA World Motocross rounds sometimes in addition to several of the above.

What I really miss is the old Thursday Night Thunder midget, sprint and silver crown races. Anyone remember "Tommy Tipover"?