BlackSheep214 Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Vince Nemanic said: Tamiya kits build really nicely. Just saying. True... aside from aircrafts and armor, all they do are Japanese imports, racers and motorcycles. Zero classic automobiles. Just saying... Not to mention their decals are notorious of being too thick and don't lay down well even when using decal setting solutions.
doorsovdoon Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 A lot of AMT moulds were engineered decades ago, a different time and a different demographic. Take tinplate toy cars of the 30's and 40's, they were fine for the time and there was nothing to complain about. Comparing them to a die cast toy car of the 60's when tinplate toys were still a big seller it's easy to throw shade at the tinplate toys, and for lack of a better word they do indeed "suck" in comparison, but criticising them based on what modern technology is capable of is very unfair.
BlackSheep214 Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 I would think by now we've given PlumCrazy's our responses, opinions, and has not responded as of late. We've all built AMT kits as well as others - warts and all. It takes a bit of problem solving and creative work to make ANY kit work to be a gorgeous build. Heading into 6 pages is not going to change his mind or opinions on AMT kits.
Rob Hall Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 20 minutes ago, BlackSheep214 said: True... aside from aircrafts and armor, all they do are Japanese imports, racers and motorcycles. Zero classic automobiles. Just saying... Actually, Tamiya has done many classic cars... the '60s VW Beetle and Karmann-Ghia, the vintage Renault 2CV, vintage Fiat 500, '50s Mercedes 300SL, '60s Lotus Seven and Europa, '30s Toyota, etc....
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 16 hours ago, cobraman said: Been building for over 50 years and lots of kits suck ! Some kits seem to fall together but where's the fun in that ? Exactly my thought. Steve
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Plowboy said: Something to remember also is that it's those tough kits that will make you a better builder. You will learn patience, perseverance, problem solving and new curse words along the way. But, when you stick it on the shelf, you'll have more pride in it than an easy kit. I'll take a tough kit with fit issues and an accurate body over an easy kit with lousy proportions any day. Also a very good perspective. The best builders can build pretty much anything with good results, and they didn't get to be great builders by building only perfectly engineered kits. Steve Edited December 27, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Big boys...not "fan boys". I couldn't agree more. If you are a person who is unwilling to put your skills to the test to build the subjects that you are interested in and available because they may not meet your "perfection" standards, you're the one who has some "developing" to do. A truly skilled modeler will never limit himself, and you will have a hard time developing those skills if you are not willing to try to expand them. Steve
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, BlackSheep214 said: True... aside from aircrafts and armor, all they do are Japanese imports, racers and motorcycles. Zero classic automobiles. Just saying... Not to mention their decals are notorious of being too thick and don't lay down well even when using decal setting solutions. True. The preciseness of a kit is of little consequence if the subject matter holds no interest for you. I'm not going to start building Japanese imports just because the kits are better. I would give up the hobby before I started building subjects that I have no interest in. Steve
1972coronet Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, peteski said: Looks to me like Plumcrazy just wanted to vent. If he was hoping for sympathy, he didn't get much. He might already be off on another project, because AMT trucks (and making custom decals) are just too difficult do deal with. Last time he was around the board was Friday @ 13:30 . He probably thinks that we're bustin' his chops with all of our replies .
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 54 minutes ago, Rob Hall said: Actually, Tamiya has done many classic cars... the '60s VW Beetle and Karmann-Ghia, the vintage Renault 2CV, vintage Fiat 500, '50s Mercedes 300SL, '60s Lotus Seven and Europa, '30s Toyota, etc.... Granted, these are "classics", but they are all imports. I have no interest in imports, so I have no interest in building them, regardless of the "superior" engineering. I wish Tamiya would produce some classic "American" cars. I would love to give them a whirl. But until that day comes, I have no interest. Steve
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, 1972coronet said: Last time he was around the board was Friday @ 13:30 . He probably thinks that we're bustin' his chops with all of our replies . That should be expected when you issue an unfounded blanket statement as he did. He should know that saying that an entire companies kits "suck" is going to draw a considerable amount of fire. If he didn't, he knows now! Steve
Rob Hall Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said: I wish Tamiya would produce some classic "American" cars I can’t see that happening, and a lot of American modelers would whine that they were done in the ‘wrong’ scale.
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 minute ago, unclescott58 said: Obviously, if the horse is speaking, he's not dead yet! I say let the beating commence! Steve
StevenGuthmiller Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Rob Hall said: I can’t see that happening, and a lot of American modelers would whine that they were done in the ‘wrong’ scale. I agree. It will likely never happen, and yes, there would be plenty of complaining, as there always is. So, in the mean time, I guess I'll stick with Round 2, Revell and Moebius. Steve
unclescott58 Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 I'm tired as of late, that the first thing I see when I go into this site, then in to General Automotive Talk, is "AMT kits suck!" In general I like AMT kits. And I find the title to this thread a bit offensive. Do some AMT kits suck? Yes, of course some do. But, most don't. It's a brand that has brought a lot joy into my life for better than 55 years now. And I'm tired of seeing the title "AMT kits suck!" Every time I come here lately. I believe from what I reading here, most people here feel the same way as I do about AMT and other kits. And I'm having no problem with the general comments being made in this thread. I'm just tired of seeing the TITLE of this thread pop up all the time! I find it offensive.
BlackSheep214 Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Rob Hall said: Actually, Tamiya has done many classic cars... the '60s VW Beetle and Karmann-Ghia, the vintage Renault 2CV, vintage Fiat 500, '50s Mercedes 300SL, '60s Lotus Seven and Europa, '30s Toyota, etc.... All imports. I'm talking about American cars. Tri Fives, Mopars, Fords, Buicks. etc...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, unclescott58 said: I'm tired as of late, that the first thing I see when I go into this site, then in to General Automotive Talk, is "AMT kits suck!" ...I find it offensive. Lotsa things in life strike people as "offensive". Unfortunately, these days that seems to be taken as sufficient rationale for silencing people with differing opinions. The OP voiced his opinion. I believe the majority here have presented convincing arguments as to why his opinion (to which he's entitled) may be partially unfounded, extreme, or just based on lack of experience. Edited December 27, 2020 by Ace-Garageguy
unclescott58 Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Lotsa things in life strike people as "offensive". Unfortunately, these days that seems to be taken as sufficient rationale for silencing people with differing opinions. The people's opinions here have been great. I have no problem with that. I agree with almost all of them. It's just the title of the thread I'm tried of. "AMT kits suck!" It's like to thread being titled "Your grandma is ugly." It may be true. But, I wouldn't want to see it every time I went to a certain website I enjoy frequenting. AMT do not suck. And I'm tired of hearing that they do. That's why I wish this thread would just go away.
Richard Bartrop Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 For some reason, some people have decided that criticizing AMT kits is a personal attack, and that it calls into question their manliness. Some people really need to get over themselves. Are kits better than they were in 1968? Thankfully yes. Is it unfair to compare more modern offerings? Of course not, because it isn't 1968 anymore. I don't know about you, but I don't use glue out of a tube, wire engines with sewing thread, or paint with a brush. When I want to do chrome trim, you can be sure I won't be reaching for a bottle of Testor's Silver. Progress happens, and sometime new is better than old. As for who is worthy of being in the "real modelers" club? As has been mentioned many times before, the industry is about numbers, Every time the kitmakers turn someone off their kits, that brings them that much closer to the day they have to shut their doors. They need all those lowly "kit assemblers" a lot more than they need some "real modeler" who only buys vintage kits off eBay anyhow.
Classicgas Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 I haven't seen anyone here say they only buy vintage kits off ebay ?
Danno Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 I'm going to make it a point to buy the next new model car kit that Plumcrazy produces so I can compare its engineering, parts fit, "buildability," and plastic material quality, etc. to that of AMT's kits. Inquiring minds want to KNOW. ??
unclescott58 Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 26 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said: For some reason, some people have decided that criticizing AMT kits is a personal attack, and that it calls into question their manliness. Some people really need to get over themselves. Are kits better than they were in 1968? Thankfully yes. Is it unfair to compare more modern offerings? Of course not, because it isn't 1968 anymore. I don't know about you, but I don't use glue out of a tube, wire engines with sewing thread, or paint with a brush. When I want to do chrome trim, you can be sure I won't be reaching for a bottle of Testor's Silver. Progress happens, and sometime new is better than old. As for who is worthy of being in the "real modelers" club? As has been mentioned many times before, the industry is about numbers, Every time the kitmakers turn someone off their kits, that brings them that much closer to the day they have to shut their doors. They need all those lowly "kit assemblers" a lot more than they need some "real modeler" who only buys vintage kits off eBay anyhow. Boy, that first paragraph is a little productive. Where that leading? And why do I take offense to it?
Tom Geiger Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said: Are kits better than they were in 1968? Thankfully yes. Is it unfair to compare more modern offerings? Of course not, because it isn't 1968 anymore. I don't know about you, but I don't use glue out of a tube, wire engines with sewing thread, or paint with a brush. When I want to do chrome trim, you can be sure I won't be reaching for a bottle of Testor's Silver. Progress happens, and sometime new is better than old. Oh let me jump in here! We as a group are the people who show up at Star Trek conventions in our Captain Kirk jammies. We can recite the contents of nearly every kit ever made and many of us could do talks on the evolution of injection molding and the history of the industry that would be welcome at technical conferences! We are classic “take a hobby to the Nth degree” kinda folks! That said I can sympathize with the purple guy. I cannot think of another category of consumer goods where 1963 product are offered for sale in our modern world. We often take this miracle of our hobby for granted. But it’s truly amazing that the molds etc still exist 50-60 years later. My brother in law is a modern guy. He goes to work every day and spends his leisure time watching sports on TV. He doesn’t do any crafts, and he’s not mechanical. He comes to my house and sees my models. Not much comment other than a polite “They are nice”. I take him into my model room and he sees my stash.. he gets a little excited and asks, “Maybe we could build one before dinner?” I open a random box and all the 200 parts are blue plastic, like we are accustomed to seeing. His smile drops! I suddenly understand that upon seeing my work, he thought that all the parts came prefinished and I merely snapped them together like a puzzle, or maybe like an IKEA bookshelf! I cannot ask for more from him because he hasn’t been exposed to our world before. I cannot fault his expectations! Our OP bought a product in the modern world. He bought it by modern means.. placed an online order. The kit came to him brand new. factory sealed and with a modern bar code on it. He has every right to expect a modern product in that box! And because he’s only seen one model kit, he assumes all AMT kits are the same. He has no idea of the evolution of injection molding, the history of the company or the eras of kit designers we all take for granted as common knowledge. Based on his year 2020 experience, AMT does suck! This is a business problem for Round 2... they are in the nostalgia business with this grand collection of old tooling. We, as a group, only consume 1-10% of kit production.. depending on where you get your numbers. The other 90-99% must be purchased by John Q Public... I can only imagine the mail Round 2 receives! That’s no doubt why they now show box contents on the bottom of the box and include a folksy history of kits today. So end analysis, some 90% of kit production goes to casual builders... guys who (gasp!) may not even paint their models. Guys who are getting no more involved than spending an idle afternoon assembling a plastic puzzle. And it’s so! I notice the kit turnover at my local Hobby Lobby is constant. And I don’t know a single model car guy in town! And we’d be dead in the water without these guys! Edited December 27, 2020 by Tom Geiger
Sandboarder Posted December 27, 2020 Posted December 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Bill Eh? said: This has been covered in multiple past threads, and explained very well by Tom Geiger. The molds that constitute AMT kits are currently owned by Round 2. They have passed through varied hands of ownership. Each time a new owner has bought them, that new owner rightly should make money from their new asset. So the molds are not in fact written-off any longer. I am thinking that that your lack of knowledge about this aspect of model kit history I have basic knowledge of this but to be honest some moulds need attention before a new owner should use them. I’m what you consider to be new in the hobby with my experience being on and off for the last 25 years. New people in the hobby aren’t interested in history and just want to enjoy the experience of building a model. So while many accept that the kit has been around and the moulds are old, a new comer won’t know this and will have a higher standard. Therefore they’ll think the same kit isn’t worth the effort and money. If you guys don’t want this hobby’s to die, you will realise you need new builders and forum members to keep your beloved hobby alive. So instead of being so harsh on them, explain the history, don’t post dead horse meme’s, try to offer them suggestions of better kits rather then post impossible to find, horrible kits from the past. If you find it offensive be part of the solution instead of getting bend out of shape. 2 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said: Are kits better than they were in 1968? Thankfully yes. Is it unfair to compare more modern offerings? Of course not, because it isn't 1968 anymore. I don't know about you, but I don't use glue out of a tube, wire engines with sewing thread, or paint with a brush. When I want to do chrome trim, you can be sure I won't be reaching for a bottle of Testor's Silver. Progress happens, and sometime new is better than old. +1 This is what I mean, we need to move forward and progress. We have guys making their own decals and 3D drawing and printing parts. Yet so much of the hobby is stuck in a time capsule. While supporting our favourite brands we need to encourage them to lift their game and produce better products. haha big boys ay? Not everyone one here is acting like it!!
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