GSL Common Kit: [revision] just another Model A Roadster

[89AKurt]

The problem with doing a WIP in public, y'all get to see I don't know what I'm doing. 😅  Wishing I hadn't glued the backing plates on the rear axle, because when I put on the trailing arms, I see the plate to axle should be better.  Debating whether to cut that apart.  The plate should be "welded" on, and a little more plate made for the other side added.  Not digging the plated parts, the mold lines are terrible, and really show up.  I like what Michael Moskov did to his Revell's reissued '30 Ford Model A, painted almost all the suspension parts black.  The front trailing (or are they leading?) arms also have the frame mount, that will be easy (see how I committed myself?) to cut apart, then glue the mount to the frame.  There were some big ejection pins that needed to be removed.  Also had to bend the steering links and trailing arms, thanks to lousy packing in the box, this kit is vulnerable to getting those chrome trees bent.

Since I hated the steering rod so much, cut it off and fabricated a thin wall steel tube, with copper wire that was smashed in pliers.  Will add photo-etch nuts after final assembly.  I discovered there would not be much clearance between my lateral link and the trailing arms, so I redid both end mounts.  The one on the axle, made more sense to drill a hole and slip it over the differential, don't even need to temporary glue.  Moved the pivot point up on the frame mount.

Spent more time looking at it, than doing anything.  Really tempted to just paint everything gloss chocolate brown, which takes forever to cure.  I know the front axle is forged, and has the "mold" seam, does anyone remove that on the real thing?

[mrm]

Looking like quite the ambitious project so far. Great work. I just can't help it and need to say that I have never seen such a front suspension setup. The coil over look great, but totally wrong on the front. Someone recently posted a model of the Li'l John Buttera's '29 Roadster, which has coil overs with an axle. Maybe you should take a look at that set up if you are absolutely set on using coils at the front. 

[Straightliner59]

5 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

Thank you.  I was turned onto them last century.  Last project, used brass tubing, which was thicker wall.

I've been using mostly the 3/64" tubing from Special Shapes with them mostly, the last few years (since I found the Special Shapes stuff). They fit it, perfectly!

[89AKurt]

14 hours ago, mrm said:

Looking like quite the ambitious project so far. Great work. I just can't help it and need to say that I have never seen such a front suspension setup. The coil over look great, but totally wrong on the front. Someone recently posted a model of the Li'l John Buttera's '29 Roadster, which has coil overs with an axle. Maybe you should take a look at that set up if you are absolutely set on using coils at the front. 

Thank you!  I saw the IRS parts in my search, A-arms and such.  I thought coil-overs were an option upgrade to regular shocks.  Since I have your attention, have a question.......

Why do model manufacturers ignore putting the brake master cylinder in the parts?  The AMT '50 Chevy pickup is a good example, a better than average kit, but because it's not on the firewall, but under the floor, they think we won't notice.  The other kit I'm going to use parts from doesn't have it either.  This is the sort of detail that GSL judges would look for, and I've made it for the last Chevy project, so my OCD is spazing out.

BTW:  Am willing to trade the slightly twisted windshield frame for wheel trim rings, if anyone is interested.  Am thinking of starting a new topic: Revell Model A Parts Exchange.  Since their Quality Control and Customer Service from Germany stinks, throwing the idea out there.

Edited January 8, 2022 by 89AKurt

[mrm]

5 minutes ago, 89AKurt said:

Thank you!  I saw the IRS parts in my search, A-arms and such.  I thought coil-overs were an option upgrade to regular shocks.  Since I have your attention, have a question.......

Why do model manufacturers ignore putting the brake master cylinder in the parts?  The AMT '50 Chevy pickup is a good example, a better than average kit, but because it's not on the firewall, but under the floor, they think we won't notice.  The other kit I'm going to use parts from doesn't have it either.  This is the sort of detail that GSL judges would look for, and I've made it for the last Chevy project, so my OCD is spazing out.

Coil overs are an upgrade to regular shocks when replacing a shock/spring combo. For example on my Corvette I threw the stock buggy transverse spring and the shocks in the trash and replaced them with nice adjustable coil overs. Same way on the rear of the hot rods you can use coil overs instead of the traditional leaf spring and shocks. However steps need to be taken to triangulate the rear and lock it in place when removing the spring. At the front it is impossible to do that with the setup you are trying to use, due to geometry, space and functionality. Besides it does not look aesthetically appeasing. If you want to use coil overs at the front with I beam axle you need a different suspension set up. Something like this:

Now, about the brake pedal/master cylinder, they are actually included on all the Revell '32s and on the AMT Phantom Vicky. However, on many of today's street rods the master cylinders are not visible on the firewall, not underneath the car, as they are hidden behind the dash. And the model A kit you are working with is a strictly hot rod version, so that may be the reason. 

[Bullybeef]

1 hour ago, 89AKurt said:

Thank you!  I saw the IRS parts in my search, A-arms and such.  I thought coil-overs were an option upgrade to regular shocks.  Since I have your attention, have a question.......

Why do model manufacturers ignore putting the brake master cylinder in the parts?  The AMT '50 Chevy pickup is a good example, a better than average kit, but because it's not on the firewall, but under the floor, they think we won't notice.  The other kit I'm going to use parts from doesn't have it either.  This is the sort of detail that GSL judges would look for, and I've made it for the last Chevy project, so my OCD is spazing out.

BTW:  Am willing to trade the slightly twisted windshield frame for wheel trim rings, if anyone is interested.  Am thinking of starting a new topic: Revell Model A Parts Exchange.  Since their Quality Control and Customer Service from Germany stinks, throwing the idea out there.

Send me a pm for your needs, I have some leftovers that you can have 

[89AKurt]

4 hours ago, mrm said:

Coil overs are an upgrade to regular shocks when replacing a shock/spring combo. For example on my Corvette I threw the stock buggy transverse spring and the shocks in the trash and replaced them with nice adjustable coil overs. Same way on the rear of the hot rods you can use coil overs instead of the traditional leaf spring and shocks. However steps need to be taken to triangulate the rear and lock it in place when removing the spring. At the front it is impossible to do that with the setup you are trying to use, due to geometry, space and functionality. Besides it does not look aesthetically appeasing. If you want to use coil overs at the front with I beam axle you need a different suspension set up. Something like this:

Now, about the brake pedal/master cylinder, they are actually included on all the Revell '32s and on the AMT Phantom Vicky. However, on many of today's street rods the master cylinders are not visible on the firewall, not underneath the car, as they are hidden behind the dash. And the model A kit you are working with is a strictly hot rod version, so that may be the reason. 

Thanks.  I see they dropped the front substantially, so understand why there are coil-overs.   Also makes sense about the hidden master cylinder, but Revell has the pedal shaft going down.

[89AKurt]

10 hours ago, Bullybeef said:

Send me a pm for your needs, I have some leftovers that you can have 

Thank you!

Two steps forward, one step back........ now things are back to normal. 😬  The front shocks have been bugging me, I wasn't really happy with the diameter of the rings, and could still see the shafts with the mold lines, and the fact I couldn't find any coil-overs on Model A beam axles, just wasn't going to fly.  Dug out my steel tubing, and shirt pins.  Found the perfect match of the thickest pins (last two in the box) and the thick wall 2MM tubing.  The Mauser calipers have been a great tool over the years.

Smashed the head with a punch, on the anvil, tools inherited from my dad.

The cheap and useless for a drill pin vise was used to shape the ends, first using the Dremel disk, then file and sanding sticks.  There is no way I'm going to drill holes, will count on photo-etch nut heads to fake it.  Cutting the tiny smaller tubing was a trick, worked slowly so it wouldn't get hot, then used a toothpick holder to finish the cut end.

These shocks were much easier to make, why didn't I just do this the first time? 😖

Railroad bolts are used on the leading arm brackets.  Used superglue and baking soda to fillet the mounts on the frame.

This is more accurate and realistic.

Next will be the trailing arms.

[Cool Hand]

Always interesting to see how you problem solve, with materials, tools and techniques. And then keep it looking very scale accurate.

[mrm]

Very nice. Now it looks perfect. The shocks are like real. 

[89AKurt]

2 hours ago, mrm said:

Very nice. Now it looks perfect. The shocks are like real. 

Thanks for stating the obvious, seems to be an unwritten law that no coilovers are allowed.  I'm inspired by your brake lines, am going to work on the frame mounts next.

Dumb questions:  Is the transmission an automatic?  There is only a gas and brake pedal, but there is the shifter.  Are the brake drums from a Buick?  I searched 'Ford Model A drum brake backing plate line connection' and found 99% of the pictures are on the brake shoe side.  Is the brake cylinder always on top?  I wanted to be correct on where to end the brake line.  Front brake lines come from the frame, but I see half the fabricators run the rear to the axle then to the wheels, the other half run around the frame cross member, then to the wheels.  I've also noticed the majority of the frame rear is a different design than the kit, not changing it, but curious why that is.  I assume one well known builder comes out with a new design, and others copy it.  Now I'm wondering about how to do the brake master cylinder.  I scratch-built the coffee cake this morning.

Saw on Fakebook, someone showing a cool frame jig, someone asked what it is, a circuit board jig.  Then I saw a post on this forum, so that convinced me to try it.

 

[slusher]

Really nice work Kurt..

[Zippi]

That's some mighty fine work on those shocks.  I may have to try this sometime down the road.

[1930fordpickup]

Yes that is an Automatic trans. The rear brake lines run to the center of the rear end normally with a rubber line dropped down then out to the rear brakes with solid axle cars/trucks. I could be wrong but every wheel cylinder I have seen were all on the top, so I say top for the brake lines.

[Bullybeef]

6 minutes ago, 1930fordpickup said:

Yes that is an Automatic trans. The rear brake lines run to the center of the rear end normally with a rubber line dropped down then out to the rear brakes with solid axle cars/trucks. I could be wrong but every wheel cylinder I have seen were all on the top, so I say top for the brake lines.

Yes top for the flexible brake lines, 

[89AKurt]

4 hours ago, slusher said:

Really nice work Kurt..

 

2 hours ago, Zippi said:

That's some mighty fine work on those shocks.  I may have to try this sometime down the road.

Thanks guys!  I prefer making coil springs, and shocks or combination of, over doing plug wires.  Every lotion, shampoo, or whatever bottle that has a pump, scavenge the spring.  Some cheap cig lighters are a good source too, but not Bic.

8 minutes ago, 1930fordpickup said:

Yes that is an Automatic trans. The rear brake lines run to the center of the rear end normally with a rubber line dropped down then out to the rear brakes with solid axle cars/trucks. I could be wrong but every wheel cylinder I have seen were all on the top, so I say top for the brake lines.

 

2 minutes ago, Bullybeef said:

Yes top for the flexible brake lines, 

Thanks, what I suspected.  I favor keeping the hard line up on the frame, then use either braided wire or spiral guitar string for the flexible sections.  Thanks for offering to send parts, the master brake cylinder will be cool to add.

Another dumb question, does everyone ignore the lack of a parking brake?

[Bullybeef]

Parking brake on most cars and trucks was cable actuated to the rear drums, somewhat convoluted to replicate in 1:25 scale 

[89AKurt]

3 hours ago, Bullybeef said:

Parking brake on most cars and trucks was cable actuated to the rear drums, somewhat convoluted to replicate in 1:25 scale 

I've seen it done before, on something like this, or 60s era body on frame RWD it's a detail that would be seen.  On a Honda, no way!

It was a beautiful day, went on a hike, needed to get some air and a break from this.  Fixed the pet peeve, ground down (more like up in this case) the frame so there is clearance from the axle.

Been using Tacky glue to temporarily assemble things.  The trailing arms are glued to the axle now, lots of superglue and baking soda to fill the wide gap, and added some plate to the top to complete that part.  Also added the brake line clips, which is photo-etch fret.

 

Removed the ejector pins on the floor, since it's going to be panel truck, those would be seen.  Set the muffler/exhaust in place.  Then I had the ARE YOU KIDDING ME moment.  For starters, the instructions show those parts on the pan, then the next step they show the pan on the frame, and you have to twist and turn the pipe into place.  Really, all you have to do (if you are building Box Stock) is tilt the front of the floor up, stick the pipes through the back of the frame, then down at the front.  BUT..... but check out the total lack of clearance of the trailing arms and muffler, seriously?  Bad enough I barely have clearance with the lateral link, which I might make the differential part again, longer.

I might have to make the exhaust pipes go another route.  I think it's hokey how there is a recess on the floor for them, and a dip in the cross member.  Having the pipe against the floor will melt the chocolate. 😜  Maybe side pipes. 🤔

[mrm]

12 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

I've seen it done before, on something like this, or 60s era body on frame RWD it's a detail that would be seen.  On a Honda, no way!

It was a beautiful day, went on a hike, needed to get some air and a break from this.  Fixed the pet peeve, ground down (more like up in this case) the frame so there is clearance from the axle.

Been using Tacky glue to temporarily assemble things.  The trailing arms are glued to the axle now, lots of superglue and baking soda to fill the wide gap, and added some plate to the top to complete that part.  Also added the brake line clips, which is photo-etch fret.

 

Removed the ejector pins on the floor, since it's going to be panel truck, those would be seen.  Set the muffler/exhaust in place.  Then I had the ARE YOU KIDDING ME moment.  For starters, the instructions show those parts on the pan, then the next step they show the pan on the frame, and you have to twist and turn the pipe into place.  Really, all you have to do (if you are building Box Stock) is tilt the front of the floor up, stick the pipes through the back of the frame, then down at the front.  BUT..... but check out the total lack of clearance of the trailing arms and muffler, seriously?  Bad enough I barely have clearance with the lateral link, which I might make the differential part again, longer.

I might have to make the exhaust pipes go another route.  I think it's hokey how there is a recess on the floor for them, and a dip in the cross member.  Having the pipe against the floor will melt the chocolate. 😜  Maybe side pipes. 🤔

There are two crossmembers included in the kit. They look the same, but they are not. One is for the highboy option-body on top of 32 frame, and the other is for the channeled version with the ‘29 frame. If you have put wrong crossmember in the frame, it would bring the floor down and create the clearance issue you are having. 

[89AKurt]

11 hours ago, mrm said:

There are two crossmembers included in the kit. They look the same, but they are not. One is for the highboy option-body on top of 32 frame, and the other is for the channeled version with the ‘29 frame. If you have put wrong crossmember in the frame, it would bring the floor down and create the clearance issue you are having. 

Oh...... I have switched the A and B version engines that are supposed to go with the respective frames.  I didn't want the straight frame, or the blower.   Again, my ignorance of what makes a Highboy, is it stock ride height?  Or are they jacked up a little?

Nothing done today.  Was thinking about color scheme for the chassis, stuck on chocolate brown frame, but thinking of caramel suspension parts (red is usually an alternate to back?).

[89AKurt]

The problem with working on a project in public view, is showing how stupid I can be.   Due to lack of enthusiasm, with model building, and not even signing up for the show yet, I've decided to ditch this project like a boring date.  It's stupid to be kit bashing 2 kits, just to enter one contest.  And it's more than likely it would be disqualified because none of the body would be used.  Someday I will do the Bungalow car, but with the other kit, that will save about 2 years of time.  So if I finish this stillborn project, I need to come up with an idea for modifying the body in some way.  Was thinking of stretching the cockpit, and perhaps a boattail.  But I'm just not envisioning a design yet.  Maybe simply opening the truck, so you can see the fuel tank and battery that the kit comes with, which you can't see when building box stock, that might be enough; adding a nitrous bottle will wow everyone.😅  Since this genre of cars isn't my forte, I'll be lucky to pull this one off.  /end rant/

[Russell C]

13 minutes ago, 89AKurt said:

... I've decided to ditch this project like a boring date. ...  /end rant/

Fun thing is, your work on the rear suspension / coilover shocks in January last year is what motivated me to begin on my own GSL "Common Kit Class" entry, even though didn't get around to my coilovers work until this past couple of weeks.

[89AKurt]

Thread title revised to reflect the major change in this project.

Resumed construction last night.  I'm sticking with keeping the body as is, the only change is opening the trunk.  It seemed stupid to provide a fuel tank and battery, and then not be able to see that.  The first task was to use the Tamiya scriber to cut out the lid, which used every micron of the blade, the body is super thick.  I also filled the recess for the exhaust pipes over the axle, I'm going with a scratch-built system.  Cut the tubs from the door panels, will be easier to paint the leather (kit comes with 2 choices of decals, which would take a bunch of Solva-Set, no thanks).

Next was making the jambs.  Used the hot wire to cut the styrene.  Used sanding sticks to thin the edge of the lid.

Something that bugged me, the gap at the firewall/floor.  Glued sheet styrene to the floor to fill that gap.  Made a bulkhead from sheet styrene, so the floor supports there instead of relying on the door panels.  Had to fill another hole that bugged me.

Made the hinge from guitar string.  The aluminum tape is temporary.  Used the Dremel with new bits I got recently, to recess the hinge pivots as close to the outside plane of the body as I dared.  For once the first try was successful!  At this point, the lid stayed up by itself, could have used magnets as a latch, but I don't like risking chipping the paint when opening, so worked on an operable latch......

But first I scrounged through my spring stash, and found this one that was scavenged from a dead electronic device.  It's not realistic, but it works!  The first latch design was a failure, came up with another design that uses guitar string.  Something really small but important to me, was to fill the little divots for the tailpipes.

Wanted to use the license plate as the latch button.  This is not refined and glued together yet, but good enough for a whole Saturday of work.

 

[Bullybeef]

Here we are us normal modellers marvelling at simply making a hinge work, and you over there making the freaking poppers to open the freaking trunk! Great work sir. 

[89AKurt]

1 hour ago, Bullybeef said:

Here we are us normal modellers marvelling at simply making a hinge work, and you over there making the freaking poppers to open the freaking trunk! Great work sir. 

😂 Thank you.  What's silly, is I play with such features a few times, then the rest of it's life it sits on the shelf.