Shelby real or fake?

[keyser]

My old line is #57 of 40 built. And a “tach-needle restoration”, they had a tach needle and fabbed the rest. 
Ferrari stopped numbering cars, only plaque that says one of 399. Yep. Doesn’t say there isn’t more. Enzo’s say that and there are over 400 extant. Then there’s the duplicate vin thing, car crashed, 2 cars reborn. 
 

Edited January 19, 2022 by keyser

[Ace-Garageguy]

12 minutes ago, keyser said:

My old line is #57 of 40 built... Then there’s the duplicate vin thing, car crashed, 2 cars reborn. 
 

And consider this: when you think of the potential value of some of these things, then realize that it's an order of magnitude easier to produce a flawless and aged data plate, correct number stamp dies, and a spotty but believable paper trail than it is to make counterfeit plates for currency and get the watermarks and paper dialed in...

Last time I checked, I seem to remember there were enough "missing" Porsche 550 Spyders to make it definitely worthwhile to fake one, even taking into consideration the $250,000+ cost of an engine now. Couple years of work for one highly skilled man, way less than a half mil in parts and materials, selling for around $5 million. 

Good thing I'm too lazy.  

[espo]

While this probably was a real Shelby at one time it hardly is now. Why someone would do all this to a real Shelby when mainstream Mustangs were a common enough starting point and would have had to cost far less in the first place. Doesn't really matter anymore if it was a real Shelby since it never will be in the future. Just a shame to see this happen to such a car. 

[The Junkman]

5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

There's at least one "real" GT40 out there that was built around a data plate.

I understand that at one time there were three Porsche 917s, all of which had won the 1971 Lemans 24 Hours.

[Joe Handley]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:10 PM, Scott8950 said:

I strongly believe that's the reason for the entire front being cut off the car. Seems someone didn't want this car ever being identified.  Here's the thing that seems a little odd in 68/69 a 67 gt 350 was not a big money collector car. Could have been someone bought this car as a wreck and stole another car to swap vins? No one knows for sure but I'd almost bet those vin tags are on a car somewhere today.

Well, if it was a northern Illinois car with any connections to Chicago with this kind of history, there could always be a Lincoln Towing involvement. Dad had heard that if they found anything that might be special in this way, the car might disappear suddenly, as well as the more desirable drive train parts disappearing from parked cars.  Steve Goodwin didn't just come up with this song out of nowhere after all

 

[Daddyfink]

A few years ago, early 90's, there was a shop called Antique Automotive that dealt with Hot Rods, Muscle Cars and Specialty Cars. They also sold restoration parts, both new and used, and had a back lot full of project cars and parts. 

On one of my visits I found a very demolished fastback Mustang, and it was a 1966 Shelby GT 350 that had been pulled out of a ravine somewhere in New Mexico. The car was pretty stripped and the roof was mostly caved in, but, it had one very important part still on it, the Shelby Tags and chassis numbers. That, as the shop owner told me, was as good as gold to Shelby collectors, as they could legally replicate a Shelby car with the remains, and it would be legit on paper. 

So yes, there might be a Shelby recreation with legit numbers out there and no one is the wiser for it. And then again, this could just be the end of the line for a legit Shelby, if it is a real Shelby. 

Until we hear otherwise, that is pretty much it. 

[Joe Handley]

4 hours ago, CabDriver said:

Whoopsie

Cosby had a record of his experience with that monster, apparently he returned the car to Shelby when it tried to kill him and his wife a couple times, then the guy that Shelby resold it to did get killed when it went off the cliff. 

[Rodent]

So, the door tag is missing as well? And it's not the original engine and to the car? I always have heard that 289 HiPos were VIN stamped, but that could be bunk knowledge.

[Ace-Garageguy]

24 minutes ago, Rodent said:

So, the door tag is missing as well? And it's not the original engine and to the car? I always have heard that 289 HiPos were VIN stamped, but that could be bunk knowledge.

According to a "reliable" source: 1) Door tags weren't installed on '67 Shelbys, though the holes were drilled and sometimes filled with rivets; 2) Blocks in GT 350s had the VIN stamped on the LH (driver) side under the forward exhaust port.

EDIT: There's a persistent rumor that there is another "hidden" stamped VIN somewhere on the vehicle, but nobody seems to have ever seen one, or know exactly where it might be...and my Mustang guy, who's built clones, calls it baloney.

There ARE date-codes stamped on some panels, and these are what the guys in the video are ranting on about as placing the car's original build at the right time to coincide with a batch of Shelbys. And that, I'm afraid, is as close as anybody's ever going to get...unless the "chain of custody" can be established through sworn testimony from EVERYONE WHO'S EVER HAD THE THING IN HIS POSESSION.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, The Junkman said:

I understand that at one time there were three Porsche 917s, all of which had won the 1971 Lemans 24 Hours.

Parallel realities.   

[Mark]

Wasn't there an auction some years back, where two vintage race cars turned up with owners claiming them to be the same car?  The original car had been raced for several years and undergone a couple of major rebuilds, with each of the auction cars having parts from one version or another.

And speaking of Porsches, there was a thread on the HAMB recently that included claims that: the James Dean car may still exist (parts of it certainly still do), and: the wreck that George Barris toted around in the late Fifties was not that car.

Even if I had the money that some of these things bring, I'd find something else to spend it on or donate it to.  If I wanted such a car, I'd live with a faked-up one...no worries about anything happening to it when driving it, which is what they were made for in the first place...

[Ace-Garageguy]

9 minutes ago, Mark said:

...Even if I had the money that some of these things bring, I'd find something else to spend it on or donate it to.  If I wanted such a car, I'd live with a faked-up one...no worries about anything happening to it when driving it, which is what they were made for in the first place...

That's why I like my fake fiberglass 550. It looks like the real thing every time I walk out to it, it goes, stops, sounds and handles like the real thing, and if it gets hit, it's not the destruction of a priceless objet d'art.

Still, I often kick myself for not mortgaging the farm to buy a real one back in the late '70s for five grand.

I think I could get myself a real P-47 for what the Spyder would bring now, and have some left over for maintenance, hangar space, and avgas.   

[Rodent]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

2) Blocks in GT 350s had the VIN stamped on the LH (driver) side under the forward exhaust port.

That is what I was talking about, but I have heard that the Ford VIN was stamped on all 289 HiPos and possibly some other high performance engines like 428CJs. Not just installed in Shelbys.

I was a longtime owner (1977-2001) of a really nice '68 San Jose Mustang. I actually spent a couple weeks underneath it detailing the undercarriage with Fantastik and rags. Fuel tank was out, leaf springs and rearend was out, etc. Pretty sure there was no "hidden" VIN anywhere under there after spending all that face time with it. It had the normal VINs on the fender aprons, the door tag, and being a '68 had the dash VIN visible through the windshield per law. San Jose cars did not get the additional "buck" tag on the core support. I have also "heard" that some cars received a VIN stamp on toploader transmissions. Mine had no such stamp, but it was a lowly 302-4V.

The thing that ruins the whole "front end wreck" thing for me is their comments about the radiator being correct.

[afx]

Sounds like it is a real Shelby, chassis 1477 - jump in at 15:20

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by afx

[Scott8950]

On 10/7/2022 at 10:52 AM, afx said:

Sounds like it is a real Shelby, chassis 1477 - jump in at 15:20

Pretty amazing how they verified its not only a shelby but a very rare one at that. Cars are only original once but I'd definitely restore the car back to what it once was.

[Oldcarfan27]

Reminds me of an old joke:

The head's been replaced twice and the handle has been replaced 3 times,

But this George Washington hatchet is all original!