Is this a gloss clear coat?

[Milo]

56 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I don’t understand why everybody has so much trouble using Testors clear lacquer over enamel. 
I can’t remember the last time that I built a model where half of the parts weren’t first painted with enamel and cleared with Testors lacquer.

Testors clear lacquer is in no way, shape or form a hot, automotive type acrylic lacquer.

I have no idea what the formulation of the paint is, but I have my doubts that it’s even a lacquer in the normally accepted definition of the word.

All that I “can” tell you is that I spray it over enamel all of the time, and by all of the time, I mean very frequently!

As a matter of fact, I’ll be doing it tonight over some parts for my current project that were painted last night with flat enamel, and I haven’t even the slightest apprehension about it!

 

 

 

 

Steve

do you use the extreme lacquer that i showed?

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

do you use the extreme lacquer that i showed?

No.

The regular clear lacquer is cheaper, and apparently won’t cause the same problems that it seems that the extreme does.

I probably got a little carried away with my first response on this thread, as it just makes me a little crazy when people speak in absolutes on subjects like this.

”Never use lacquer over enamel” is overall a sound practice, but as with almost all things, it’s not an “absolute”.

Although I still have a problem considering Testors lacquers an actual lacquer, that’s what it says on the can, so the extreme lacquer aside, which I confess that I have no experience with, the other Testors clear lacquers are absolutely safe to use over enamels.

At least that has been my experience, and I have quite a bit of experience with using it in that fashion.

 

 

 

Steve

[Can-Con]

The thing that most people don't understand is there are several different types of lacquer, about a 1/2 dozen, maybe more. 

Some are hot like the nitrocellulose lacquers that were used on cars and others like the waterborne ones that are relatively neutral. 

The ones made for hobby use are usually the cooler waterborne types.

[There's also a few other types I have to use sometimes for work meant for use on wood etc. but we don't need to mention then here.]

just earlier today I sprayed some of the Testors clearcoat flat in the blue label as shown in Greg's post on the very glossy dark red Testors bottle paint I used on the interior of the Volare I'm currently building, pretty heavy coat too. No problem at all. 

No way I'd even think about doing that with an automotive product.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Can-Con said:

The thing that most people don't understand is there are several different types of lacquer, about a 1/2 dozen, maybe more. 

Some are hot like the nitrocellulose lacquers that were used on cars and others like the waterborne ones that are relatively neutral. 

The ones made for hobby use are usually the cooler waterborne types.

[There's also a few other types I have to use sometimes for work meant for use on wood etc. but we don't need to mention then here.]

just earlier today I sprayed some of the Testors clearcoat flat in the blue label as shown in Greg's post on the very glossy dark red Testors bottle paint I used on the interior of the Volare I'm currently building, pretty heavy coat too. No problem at all. 

No way I'd even think about doing that with an automotive product.

👍

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

1 hour ago, Can-Con said:

The thing that most people don't understand is there are several different types of lacquer, about a 1/2 dozen, maybe more. 

Some are hot like the nitrocellulose lacquers that were used on cars and others like the waterborne ones that are relatively neutral. 

The ones made for hobby use are usually the cooler waterborne types.

That is the main problem with the hobbyists.  Many just put every paint in the enamel or acrylic buckets, where when in fact are many formulations of each type of paint out there (especially if one starts using paints not made for the hobby market).  Same goes goes for even different brands of paints. When you do that, you are always doing an experiment (on your precious model, if you didn't to a spoon test first).  When  mixing paints and brands you always run a risk of  incompatibility. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by peteski

[StevenGuthmiller]

Just sprayed these parts about 2 hours ago.

 

They were painted with a custom mix of Testors flat enamels, thinned with mineral spirits, and airbrushed yesterday.

The white Pontiac crests were brush painted last night with Mr. Hobby "aqueous" white acrylic. (water based)

 

Tonight they were sprayed with a medium coat of Testors #1261 "Glosscote" spray lacquer.

No problems whatsoever.

 

One coat of this lacquer over flat enamel will not give you a glossy finish.

Just a nice satin sheen, depth of color and the protection of a lacquer over coat......which is exactly what I was looking for in this case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Milo]

2 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

No.

The regular clear lacquer is cheaper, and apparently won’t cause the same problems that it seems that the extreme does.

I probably got a little carried away with my first response on this thread, as it just makes me a little crazy when people speak in absolutes on subjects like this.

”Never use lacquer over enamel” is overall a sound practice, but as with almost all things, it’s not an “absolute”.

Although I still have a problem considering Testors lacquers an actual lacquer, that’s what it says on the can, so the extreme lacquer aside, which I confess that I have no experience with, the other Testors clear lacquers are absolutely safe to use over enamels.

At least that has been my experience, and I have quite a bit of experience with using it in that fashion.

 

 

 

Steve

Well despite everyone's suggestions and everything, I got a little bored on waiting for amazon's deliveries. I started to use the extreme lacquer gloss on a small body part that doesn't matter so much, it seems that it only starts looking bad after many small coats. I'm on my fourth very very minuscule coat, and it is only now having the bumps show up as described from my previous model. But this time it is also sort of glossy. Can I wet sand between clear coat coats?

[StevenGuthmiller]

42 minutes ago, Milo said:

Well despite everyone's suggestions and everything, I got a little bored on waiting for amazon's deliveries. I started to use the extreme lacquer gloss on a small body part that doesn't matter so much, it seems that it only starts looking bad after many small coats. I'm on my fourth very very minuscule coat, and it is only now having the bumps show up as described from my previous model. But this time it is also sort of glossy. Can I wet sand between clear coat coats?

You can, but I would just wait and sand and polish at the end.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

By the way......the finished floor mats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[atomicholiday]

7 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

You can, but I would just wait and sand and polish at the end.

 

 

 

 

Steve

This^

I was having a lot of painting issues this spring and then took a page from Steve's book.  I started waiting 3-4 hours between coats when using lacquer.   Might seem like an excessive amount of time,  but it works.   My paint jobs are much better for it. 

 

By the way,  nice mats.  Is that flocking?   Can't tell on this tiny screen. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by atomicholiday

[redscampi]

15 hours ago, Lunajammer said:

The conversation has sorta moved past this already, but here's what happened to me when I didn't engage my brain before spraying it over enamel.

That actually looks...kinda cool. Like a sun-baked interior.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, atomicholiday said:

This^

I was having a lot of painting issues this spring and then took a page from Steve's book.  I started waiting 3-4 hours between coats when using lacquer.   Might seem like an excessive amount of time,  but it works.   My paint jobs are much better for it. 

 

By the way,  nice mats.  Is that flocking?   Can't tell on this tiny screen. 

It's embossing powder.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[ctruss53]

To the people making the arguement that you can use some lacquers over enamels.

Not to insult the original post person, but that user is having trouble finding bottles of paint, and it is pretty clear to me they have a very novice understanding of paint in general. So I spoke in absolutes in order to help them avoid possible mistakes.

As a general rule, you should not apply lacquer paints or clears over enamels. Odds are the lacquer will be to "hot" and react with the enamel. Are there some lacquer products that will work on enamels, sure. But the OP seems to know very little about the topic, so it is best to tell them it won't work, and to test spray first.

I have included a chart that is a great starting point. As Steve and others have said, there are always exceptions, but in most cases, this chart works.

A perfect example of an exception to the rule: The chart says acrylics work as a top coat over enamels. However, Tamiya acrylics like lacquer thinners for airbrushing. Thin a Tamiya acrylic with lacquer thinner and it very well might not work over an enamel.

Another example: The chart says you can't topcoat an acrylic with a lacquer. I topcoat Tamiya acrylics with Mr Hobby lacquer clear all the time and I have never had a problem.

Edited July 18, 2023 by ctruss53

[Milo]

15 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

By the way......the finished floor mats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

How on earth are you so good

[Milo]

15 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

You can, but I would just wait and sand and polish at the end.

 

 

 

 

Steve

How do I sand and polish in areas that are like crevices and stuff

[Dpate]

16 minutes ago, Milo said:

How do I sand and polish in areas that are like crevices and stuff

There’s all different types of methods to sanding in small areas etc. Here is a example in the pic. Some areas though aren’t worth trying to polish etc cause you’ll never really notice or see it, and you’re asking for burn through. 

[Bainford]

22 minutes ago, Milo said:

How do I sand and polish in areas that are like crevices and stuff

It takes a bit of ingenuity sometimes. Polishing pads can be cut into shapes that reach better into corners and grooves, etc. Sometimes I glue pieces of polishing pads onto small sticks or coffee stirrers to get into tight spaces.  Carve the stick to a point or special shape if needed. If the edge of a polishing pad develops a ragged edge, cut a new clean edge. When polishing with creams or sanding films, the polishing cloth or sanding film can be wrapped around a skewer or knife handle, or whatever works. It's an opportunity to get creative and think-out the problem.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Bainford

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Bainford said:

It takes a bit of ingenuity sometimes. Polishing pads can be cut into shapes that reach better into corners and grooves, etc. Sometimes I glue pieces of polishing pads onto small sticks or coffee stirrers to get into tight spaces.  Carve the stick to a point or special shape if needed. If the edge of a polishing pad develops a ragged edge, cut a new clean edge. When polishing with creams or sanding films, the polishing cloth or sanding film can be wrapped around a skewer or knife handle, or whatever works. It's an opportunity to get creative and think-out the problem.

I’m going with this. 😊

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

3 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

To the people making the arguement that you can use some lacquers over enamels.

Not to insult the original post person, but that user is having trouble finding bottles of paint, and it is pretty clear to me they have a very novice understanding of paint in general. So I spoke in absolutes in order to help them avoid possible mistakes.

As a general rule, you should not apply lacquer paints or clears over enamels. Odds are the lacquer will be to "hot" and react with the enamel. Are there some lacquer products that will work on enamels, sure. But the OP seems to know very little about the topic, so it is best to tell them it won't work, and to test spray first.

I have included a chart that is a great starting point. As Steve and others have said, there are always exceptions, but in most cases, this chart works.

A perfect example of an exception to the rule: The chart says acrylics work as a top coat over enamels. However, Tamiya acrylics like lacquer thinners for airbrushing. Thin a Tamiya acrylic with lacquer thinner and it very well might not work over an enamel.

Another example: The chart says you can't topcoat an acrylic with a lacquer. I topcoat Tamiya acrylics with Mr Hobby lacquer clear all the time and I have never had a problem.

This is the bane of the modelers.  "Acryilc" is a nebulous term. Acrylic resin is the paint's binder (look it up if unfamiliar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint ).  There are acrylic lacquers *AND* enamels, using hot and milder solvents (including water).  Modelers really need to gain better understanding of paint chemistry for successful results (especially if using multiple coats of different types or brands of paints).

Yes, yes, I know that in modeler's colloquial terms "acrylic" is supposed to mean "water based acrylic-binder enamel". Still, that is not the best way to to approach the subject of compatibility.

[Dave G.]

Some of the hottest lacquers are automotive acrylic lacquer, which by the way is the same stuff the cherished and highly acclaimed MCW people sell as model paints.

Some of the most health concerning enamels around are automotive acrylic enamels with an optional secondary agent that catalyzes it. Which incidentally is the enamel some model specialty paint suppliers sell with optional hardener. Same stuff.

So no, acrylic doesn't have to be water borne. At all, in any way.

[slusher]

I have used Testors lacquers over all kind of different brands of enamel and have never had a problem. The thing you never know if a paints formula gets changed. I always let everything dry an extra amount of time if it’s enamel or lacquer before recoating anything. I don’t dispute what anyone has said, I can only talk about my experience.

[jaymcminn]

We haven't actually gotten any pics from the OP of the paintwork in question to be able to determine whether it's an adverse effect between base and clear coat or if it's an application issue. One thing the OP mentioned was building up multiple thin coats, which is not how the Testors Extreme Clear Gloss likes to be applied. Generally two or three medium-wet coats will provide the best finish. It sounds like it might be drying before it hits the surface and building up texture.

That being said, I stopped using this stuff years ago because the spray cans are just so bad. They don't atomize the paint well and leave it prone to bubbling and even runs. The product itself is fine and works well when decanted and airbrushed. 

Milo, if you could post up pics of the issues you're experiencing it might help everybody out. 

[Mopar maniac 74]

Milo

I use testors 1814 gloss clear enamel on anything with decals like race cars etc.  It does not hurt the paint or wrinkle the decals.  Model round up usually has in stock.

Any cars not having large decals I usually just polish McGuire #7 then #3 then pledge polish.

[Can-Con]

6 minutes ago, Mopar maniac 74 said:

Milo

I use testors 1814 gloss clear enamel on anything with decals like race cars etc.  It does not hurt the paint or wrinkle the decals.  Model round up usually has in stock.

Any cars not having large decals I usually just polish McGuire #7 then #3 then pledge polish.

Ah, the infamous Pledge "polish" ,,, That is actually an acrylic clearcoat much like the Tamiya acrylic clearcoat in the bottles.

A "polish" works by taking off material as the McGuire or Tamiya polishing products do. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Mopar maniac 74 said:

Milo

I use testors 1814 gloss clear enamel on anything with decals like race cars etc.  It does not hurt the paint or wrinkle the decals.  Model round up usually has in stock.

Any cars not having large decals I usually just polish McGuire #7 then #3 then pledge polish.

Be careful with the Testors enamel gloss coats too.

I'm not sure of the one that you've referenced Jeff, but the old Testors clear gloss enamel in the spray can, right up to the Model Master gloss enamel, will yellow horribly right out of the can, especially over light colors, and it has a tendency to worsen over time.

I sprayed the clear portion of this steering wheel with Model Master #2936 "High Gloss Enamel Top Coat" solely for the purpose of giving it a slightly aged look, and it worked perfectly.

Wouldn't look so perfect over a white paint job though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve