Wire gauge drill bits - opening a can of wiggly worms.

[ColonelKrypton]

Recently, while working on a project, I broke my last #67 and #66 size wire gauge number drills which prompted me to sort through my collection of spare drill bits. To my frustration I discovered that I had in some way screwed up and found that a number of the drills in my small wire gauge number drill stand ( one of those round one with the clear plastic dome top ) had gotten mixed up - wrong size in the wrong place, duplicates of the same size all or some of which where in the wrong place (etc) - seems that I had just gotten lazy and careless

Out with the micrometer and an hour later the set from #60 though #80 has been sorted out, now complete with several holes needing replacements. 

I am a bit fussy about tools, especially cutting tools that I come to rely on. I have 6 sets of drills, fractional sizes to 1/2", number drills #1 through #59, letter drills, and an assortment of larger and smaller metric. I don't mind spending money on good quality tools - buy cheap, replace many times. 

I have a good selection of the popular 1/8" shank carbide PCB drills in metric size 0.3mm up to ( I think ) 3mm. These are typically good quality, sharp, work well for model building, but are brittle and the smaller sizes are easy to break - sometimes too easy. These drills are handy and good value BUT not always the best choice. 

My bunny hunt over the last few days has been to find some suitable decent quality replacement wire gauge number drills. There are still quite a number of quality US drill makers ( Triumph, Precision Twist Drill, Titex, and others ) but these are high end products with prices to match often $5 ( low end ) to $20+ ( high end ) prices per drill bit. That is not what I need.

There are common small drills to had on eBay, Amazon, and your local hobby store some seem OK, but many are just a waste of time. A recent purchase of some Asian source number drills was disappointing as the drills were good for one hole and were so soft they easily bent - into the bin whey went, not even worth using once then tossing out.

Which brings me around to my question - in the middle between the cheap Asian and the very expensive industrial drill bits, two brands seem the most common, Excel and Gyros.

Price wise they are about the same but before I give one or the other a try I was looking for any nay, yay, or meh from the learned Model Car Mag forum members?

cheers, Graham

 

 

[restoman]

I bought a set of Excel bits from one of the tool-truck guys years ago, and they were pretty decent.

Unfortunately, when I went into business, my tools got used and abused by those guys who didn't/couldn't/wouldn't care about someone else's investment and most of the numbered bits were destroyed in short order. 

I  bought a second set and kept them hidden away, but they aren't Excel bits, and they're not nearly as good.

[Mike 1017]

I have bought and used those ones oof of E- Bay probably made in China. The smaller sizes would not even drill through plastic. Looking at them with a magnifying glass the tips were squared off no point at all. IMO Micro-Mart has the best ones. They are sold in sizes 6 to a pack. 

Mike

[Bainford]

Precision work requires equipment with consistent quality. There is no doubt that much of the work we do does not need some of the qualities designed into top name brand industrial micro drill bits, but for anyone doing precise work in multiple materials, we do require the precision and repeatability of these bits. I have not yet found inexpensive bits that are reliably of consistent quality with regard to cutting edge sharpness or hardness, chisel form, uniformity of the two cutting edges, and overall ground profile the drill bit tip. To ensure clean, straight, effortless , repeatable drilling, I buy my bits at industrial supply houses such as Acklands Grainger. 
 

There is no need to buy the most expensive they have, but I at least buy from a trusted brand. They are not cheap, but I only have to buy them once. They often come in packs of 10. It's always good to have spares of something so small and fragile, though I haven't broken a bit in years. They last nearly forever. A good way to defray costs is to go in on some 10-packs of bits with a couple other builders. 

Edited February 17 by Bainford

[R. Thorne]

Probably a tad prejudiced, but the Triumph hss bits that I have used in the garage for the past 50 or so years and in modeling for about 7 years are gonna be tough to beat.  I have broken 0 of these in modeling.  Are the newer bits as good as my old ones?  Probably not, but still?  As for the price, I am confused about your pricing of 5 to 20 dollars apiece.  A quick search revealed this 60 piece number set from LeeValley that averages a buck and a half apiece.

Edited February 17 by R. Thorne

[NOBLNG]

Morse makes good quality bits. You would have to locate a supplier. McMaster Carr maybe? It looks like you can but 12 packs of individual sizes or the #61-80 set. That said, I like my Godhand drill bits. I also have a set of nice Vallejo #61-80.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Back in 2011, I bought a set of wire-gauge bits in a Huot-labeled index, as below. I do NOT know if the set shown/advertised is the same as what I've got, as offshore manufacturers/importers/resellers are not shy about lying.

EDIT: They're apparently USA made.  

https://www.amazon.com/Viking-Drill-Tool-43460-Bright/dp/B001EHGI1I

I only use them for drilling styrene, soft aluminum, and occasionally brass and diecast pot metal. So far I have only broken two. They are hard enough to stay sharp for a reasonable period, and flexible enough to resist breaking if used in a pin-vise.

The two I broke were 100% from operator error, and my local HobbyTown usually has "Walthers" branded packs of two bits for replacements, which have been of comparable quality so far.

I also have a couple cheaper sets labeled "Forney" that seem to be of perfectly acceptable quality as far as plastic modeling work goes, and come in a nice plastic index. I found them at well-stocked True Value hardware stores.

https://www.amazon.com/Forney-60239-Mini-Drill-20-Piece/dp/B000GAV9SG

Edited February 18 by Ace-Garageguy

[ColonelKrypton]

3 hours ago, R. Thorne said:

As for the price, I am confused about your pricing of 5 to 20 dollars apiece.

Industrial suppliers, carbon steel vs HSS vs carbide vs cobalt - no name supplier stock vs US brand name vs German brand name vs Swiss brand name.

Same size drill bits just targeted for different users ( high use production machine shop vs occasional use home workshop ).

Godhand markets good stuff as does Tamiya - these are all re-branded products from good Japanese suppliers.

I have a likeness for the 3/32 shank metric drills used by the jewellery bunch. I have a set of Busch in vandium steel from 0.5mm through 2.3mm and I will continue to use these over the Chinese 1/8" shank carbide PCB drills which I will not be replacing as I use them up.

All that said however, my hunt was on for some good quality wire guage size number drills between #60 and #80. 

Speaking of wire gauge - Do you know where these number drills get their # from?  I don't and it seems that detail has been lost through the years. It seems however that this start in the UK in mid to late 1800's based on the Stubs iron wire and Stubs steel wire gauges which are somewhat different and these in turn relate to the later Birmingham wire gauge system. Confused? Confusing? I am. 

Thanks for all the replies.

cheers, Graham

 

[Straightliner59]

I've had good luck with Gyros, for many, many years. They're readily available, too.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Straightliner59 said:

I've had good luck with Gyros, for many, many years. They're readily available, too.

Mighty tasty...but how do you drill a hole with one??

       

[peteski]

Whenever  I can I use Tungsten/Carbide (TC)  bits with 1/8" shanks which come from PC board manufacturing industry.  The are extremely hard and have split point which makes them go through most materials like butter. Yes, the harness also makes them very fragile, but I'm willing to take that chance (I do break my share of them).  We had a discussion here about those bits.

 

I highly recommend reading that thread.

And another one:

 

[Straightliner59]

3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Mighty tasty...but how do you drill a hole with one??

       

I use those to fill a hole!😁

[Bugatti Fan]

Standard Wire Gauge drill bits. Not the easiest sizes to find.

There must be plenty of drill bit equivalents in Metric or Imperial that should be available and easier to source. No shortage of engineers charts showing equivalents.

Regarding drill bits it is horses for courses. Carbon Steel bits are perfectly alright if drilling plastic, brass and aluminium. HSS (High Speed Steel) better on tougher materials like steel, but perfectly good on plastics, brass and aluminium. Tungsten Carbide (PCB board drill bits) really keep their cutting edge but the downside is that they are extremely brittle. Only good for dead vertical use. Any slight side pressure will result in breakages.

Edited February 20 by Bugatti Fan

[ColonelKrypton]

9 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Mighty tasty...but how do you drill a hole with one??

       

I think the same thing when I see the name Gyros.

Apparently, at least according to their web site https://gyrostools.com/index.php/  Gyros Quality Miniature Tools and Accessories has been round since 1921. 

cheers, Graham

[ColonelKrypton]

7 hours ago, peteski said:

I highly recommend reading that thread.

I searched this forum using it's own search feature and using Google but failed to stumble on either of the two topics you noted. Thank you for posting, I will have a read.

cheers, Graham

[ColonelKrypton]

5 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

There must be plenty of drill bit equivalents in Metric or Imperial that should be available and easier to source.

Indeed, close but sometimes close isn't close enough.

I like to work a lot with brass usually soft soldered usually with Stay Brite silver bearing solder and occasionally hard soldered ( or brazed if you prefer ). Brass is a nice material to work with BUT the cutting tools geometry, for best results, is different from that for ferrous materials and even the likes of polystyrene.

https://handycrowd.medium.com/drilling-brass-the-easy-and-safe-way-f1494d449d3a

https://kdmfab.com/brass-drilling/

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/18286-drilling-brass-not-as-easy-as-youd-think/

I have a drill set of 1/16" through 1/2" drills in 1/64" steps that I use exclusively for brass and each bit has been modified like that shown in the first link above.  I have not had much luck modifying bits smaller than 1/16" in a similar manner hence the reason I occasionally break these smaller size bits when working brass. My compromise is to use decent quality HSS bits. Those very nice, sharp, and brittle carbide PCB bits tend to break far to easily so it's a good thing they are inexpensive and work in a pinch - they are too sharp and grab too easily in brass.

5 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Carbon Steel bits are perfectly alright if drilling plastic, brass and aluminum. HSS (High Speed Steel) better on tougher materials like steel, but perfectly good on plastics, brass and aluminium.

Interestingly, carbon steel bits, at least good quality ones, are less expensive, harder ( hence more brittle) and sharper than HSS types but carbon steel bits are subject to work annealing if used heavily and allowed to overheat whereas HSS are not.

There are even drill bits having tip geometry for softer materials like aluminum and plastics. They have tip geometry with a smaller included angle ( i.e. pointier )

https://www.fine-tools.com/aluminiumbohrer.html

But for our use the compromise is to use the more common types and in that they work just fine.

cheers, Graham

 

    

Edited February 18 by ColonelKrypton

[bobss396]

I bought a set of 6 small drills at a hobby shop a year or so ago, 1mm to 1.6mm in a nice little case. Made in Israel. 2 of them were ground with a negative-rake, unusable. I have a set of #60 to #80 HSS drills, but the plastic package is difficult to open. I should look for an empty index case.

Outside of that I really have not bought many drills in the past 40 years. I have bought some for machining jobs, mainly in screw-machine lengths and they were TiN coated. One job I had, we were encouraged to take drills from the tool crib when we needed them. I had garbage picked a lot of carbide micro drills from work, those I use by hand or in my mill since they are on the fragile side.

Most of my small drills I keep in old rx jars with flags on them or in old end mill cases. Yeah, I have to measure up a few if I can't read the marking on the shank.

[ColonelKrypton]

Just to put a period and end of chapter on this topic, I did some work in the shop today and made a couple more pieces for the poseable front end of my recent Revell '29 roadster build. I took the liberty of posting a few pictures to one of Bill's @Ace-Garageguy old topics on the the subject of poseable front ends. 

I noted that topic was titled as part 1 - was there ever a part 2?

In any case, I took a chance on some 0.55mm and 0.85mm HSS drill bits found on Amazon CoCud was the seller which have after measuring with my micrometer, close inspection with a loupe and drilling a few holes have proven to be decent bits and are good substitutes size wise for #75 and #66 wire gauge bits which were two of the sizes that headed me down this bunny hole. In the short term I am all sorted for now.

As @Bugatti Fan suggested earlier

6 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

There must be plenty of drill bit equivalents in Metric or Imperial that should be available and easier to source.

There are indeed close matches but sometimes you need to look a bit harder.  I knew that there were metric drills in 0.01mm increments but failed to remember to look that closely. Surprising I found several such listings on Amazon and eBay would as well. Of course your well stocked local industrial supplier would or at least should have as well.

Cheers everyone, thank you for your input.

Graham

 

 

[Straightliner59]

On 2/18/2024 at 5:39 AM, ColonelKrypton said:

I think the same thing when I see the name Gyros.

Apparently, at least according to their web site https://gyrostools.com/index.php/  Gyros Quality Miniature Tools and Accessories has been round since 1921. 

cheers, Graham

Yep, they've been around, forever! I have a couple of their small pinvises that I use more than any others, when the bits are small enough. I'm sure I have a lot of their tools around the shop.

[Straightliner59]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:00 AM, ColonelKrypton said:

Of course your well stocked local industrial supplier would or at least should have as well.

A while back, I ordered some AWG-sized bits (for my domed set) on Ebay. When I received them, they'd been shipped from a place right around the corner from my work!😅 Next time, I will just walk over there before work, some day.

[Straightliner59]

I have bought a lot of drills, over the last few years. A time, or two, I have worried that I might have a problem. This thread has made me realize that I am only beginning to get a handle on the problem!😁 I would like to thank each and every one of you for your support, in this matter...

[Bainford]

17 minutes ago, Straightliner59 said:

 This thread has made me realize that I am only beginning to get a handle on the problem!😁 I would like to thank each and every one of you for your support, in this matter...

Life is better when it is spent with enablers. 

[Straightliner59]

48 minutes ago, Bainford said:

Life is better when it is spent with enablers. 

Unquestionably!

[bobss396]

I pick up metric drills when I see them. The conversion to decimal is easy, take the metric size x 4 and it is a cinch. Example, 1.2 mm, just use the significant number "12". Multiply that x 4 and you have 48, which is .048". I do most of the conversions in my head.