kensar Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Starting my first build thread on this forum - the trainwreck called the Trumpeter Ford GT40. There are many inaccuracies with this kit if one wants to build the 1966 LeMans winner and I have read that it does not represent any particular GT40. I don't know how accurate that statement is, but in any case I like to do my own thing from time to time, so I will build this up as I would like it. Visually, it will resemble a MkIIb, but there will be differences under the skin. The first hurdle to overcome is stripping the chrome off of almost all the chromed parts. This was no easy task as the Trumpeter chrome is the most stubborn I have come across. I did find a way, however. Starting with the engine, I cut off all the nodules that are supposed to represent bolts and nuts, and stripped the paint off. Looking around for nuts and bolts to improve the model, I found that Meng makes styrene nuts and bolts and prices them very reasonable, so that is what I am going with. This is a great improvement over the as-molded kit. I have place 57 bolt heads so far and more are sure to come. I'm liking that price on those Meng bolts! The kit left out some necessary components, like the distributor, starter motor, and crankcase breather, so I will be adding these. Must have slipped their mind. The beginnings of a distributor and the breather I knocked out on the lathe. You're welcome to come along for this ride, but it won't be a short one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramps46 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Count me in for the ride 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMcc Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Looking forward to following this also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 It will be interseting to see what you can do with this "turd" of a kit. If you are doing a Mk IIB you have your work cut out for you, there are a lot of differences visually between the Mk II and the Mk IIB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Rivard Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 This is going to be a challenging but fun project. I can see many changes coming. Good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamach1 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) I recently started on the Magnifer version which is basically a clone of the Trumpeter kit. There are some build and open box reviews of these kits online. If you are going for an accurate race day MKII there is a video by the company that restores the real Black #2 MKII online at http://gt40.rkmotorscharlotte.com/restoration/ As a race car there are of course differences between what you would expect to find on a street car engine such as the lack of the breather caps. The lack of the distributor is crazy but the coil is on the firewall. I’m not sure what they used as a starter and the Kit I have does not identify any parts by name. The club I joined Model Car Creations is going to tackle building this kit as a group project and I have started on the engine and have done a lot of research so we can do a respectable build. You are 100% correct in that it was ridiculous so many parts are chromed which just makes for more work to remove the chrome and paint the correct metallic shades. I notices also the parts molded in white has no painting guides so I am referring to the color restoration photos as a guide. I’ll post some pictures once I finish the engine. Edited March 30 by vamach1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamach1 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 I’ll start a new thread of the MCC group build but this gives other an idea of what this kit entails and the extra work required just to make the engine close to the real thing. The distributor is not from the kit and I am waiting on orange spark plug wires. Not shown is the cloth you are supposed to cut and paint silver for the oil and fuel lines. I ordered some silver colored lines to replace the kit white ones. I also bought the MENG 1/12 MarkII kit and I hope it is a easier build whenever I start on that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) I had high hopes for the Meng kit but it's not so much better than the Trumpeter kit, maybe a little. But there are several inaccuracies on the Meng kit, much of the ignition wiring and plumbing in the engine bay and the rest of the car has lots to be desired as most of it is totally wrong. The Meng kit has a distributor but the people at Meng obviously don't know the firing order of a FE engine, 15426378...how hard can it be, they have grouped the ignition wires left and right side and divided the wires on the distributor cap right in the middle...no no no, 2 wires for each side should cross over for it to be right as the cylinders are 1234 on the left side of the engine seen from the front (that will say drivers side on a GT40 as they were right hand drive) and 5678 och the right side of the engine seen from the front. Many of the oil lines are routed strangely and comes from and goes to strange places on the engine and gearbox...some from the engine, engine oil cooler, gearbox are shown to be connected to the water cooling expansion tank on the firewall behind the drivers head...naah, that's not right, the oil cooler on the left side of the car is for the engine and the oil cooler on the right side is for the gearbox, the kit also don't have any oil filter housing or the part for a remote filter either..crucial for a FE as the main oil gallery goes out and in to the oil filter housing and back in the engine. And the oil tank for the dry sump oil system is marked to be the fuel tank in the instructions!?!?!!???...the fuel tankS are in the side pods on a GT40 for crying out loud, not under the front hood, and the fuel system from the tanks to the electric fuel pumps doesn't have any connection with the carburetor either. Much of the parts are crude, flat, angeled and has a lack of surface detail, so the "feel" is not there when you look at the parts. So the designers at Meng and Trumpeter has obviously not seen a GT40 Mk II or a FE engine in real life and obviously have designed the kits from photos and wild guesses instead of doing the research thoroughly and do a correct kit...wich isn't that hard to do with todays technology. Edited March 30 by Force 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanH Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 This will be an interesting build to follow as I have the same kit, the details you've added so far look great and should be an impressive model once complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Woodruff Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Following. Where's the popcorn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensar Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 Thanks for all the information posted about GT40s. I am certainly no expert on the subject and the pictures and information help a lot. I suspected that the oil lines and fuel lines shown in the Trumpeter kit are not 100% correct in their routing and Rex's (Vamach1) pictures are a great help. I was having trouble finding pictures detailed enough to use as references. Due to many inaccuracies in the kit, I am not replicating a GT40 MkII or MkIIb, but attempting to build a feasible vehicle and trying to correct some inaccuracies, being reasonable and patience willing! This also affords me the justification to use whatever colors and finishes I want. The engine and trans are not molded correctly to build an accurate FE engine, so there will be numerous compromises in accuracy. The show must go on! (Gotta bring yer own popcorn) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensar Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 Distributor I didn't have a 1/12 distributor, so I'll be making one, starting with the black part in the last picture I posted. Fortunately, the shape was pretty close to the basic shape of a distributor and the right size. Another complication is the plug leads are at 90 degrees coming off the distributor cap. First, I milled out slots for the posts. Then, glued in 0.035" styrene posts. The silver cylindrical part is a starter motor I made on the lathe. My plan going forward. I found some vinyl tubing about 0.035" ID x 0.050" OD. The spark plug leads are 0.030" wire. I cut 90 degree notches into the tubing, not cutting all the way through. I used a sharp scalpel for this as the blades are sharper than hobby knife blades. The plan is to press the tubing over the posts on the dist. cap, insert the plug wires in the other end, then place some CA glue in the notch and fold over the plug lead end into a 90 degree bend allowing the CA to set in this configuration. Should work. I'll be using the same tubing for the spark plug boots on the other end of the wires. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamach1 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) I found a few more pictures from 2020. Not a MKIIB but this car resides in the Simeone museum and is in very original condition. Edited March 30 by vamach1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugatti Fan Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Interesting build to follow. You would have thought that Trumpeter would have gone to great pains to get a prestige kit like this correct. It's not as though there are no prototype cars in existence to do the research. Marshall Buck at CMA (Creative Miniature Associates) has been developing the ultimate GT40 kit that seems to have been going on for ages. CMA's ethic is do it right or not do it at all. Looking on the CMA website the development of their multi medium kit looks absolutely breathtaking. Mind you it will be at a premium price, and I mean premium, I guess when it finally gets released. The GT40 is such an iconic Le Mans car that actually I am surprised that MFH has not done one in 1/12th scale already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamach1 Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) 19 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said: Interesting build to follow. You would have thought that Trumpeter would have gone to great pains to get a prestige kit like this correct. It's not as though there are no prototype cars in existence to do the research. Marshall Buck at CMA (Creative Miniature Associates) has been developing the ultimate GT40 kit that seems to have been going on for ages. CMA's ethic is do it right or not do it at all. Looking on the CMA website the development of their multi medium kit looks absolutely breathtaking. Mind you it will be at a premium price, and I mean premium, I guess when it finally gets released. The GT40 is such an iconic Le Mans car that actually I am surprised that MFH has not done one in 1/12th scale already. The CMA model looks amazing and of course very expensive and supposedly 98% towards being ready for molds. No mention of a kit version and $10k is out of my price range for a built version. I thinks some of those pictures go back 20 years so we shall see. There are very nice 1/12 diecast MKIIs that have been available from ACME/GMP for about $1k for several years. Perhaps they got the oil and radiator hoses and lines right - let’s hope so for that price. As for the Trumpeter engine - the more I look at this thing the more I become amazed at the errors. The front of the engine does not have a water pump which makes it pretty difficult to connect any hoses or pipes. Instead Trumpeter has large radiator pipes going into the bottom of the oil pan which of course is where the oil lines should be. So at point I am going to attempt to work with the various pictures I have and try to make this as correct as I can within reason for my own sanity and to perhaps encourage others that want to tackle this kit that following the kit directions is not the only option. So far I have scratch built the oil filter line adapter and added the distributor and plug wires. See below for pictures of the interior where you can see the front of the engine as it is being installed. As other club members in South Florida will be taking turns finishing the build when I pass it on in a week, I will start a new post and hopefully can add their progress pictures from across the country after I move this July to Arizona. The last two pics are one from the CMA site and a 1/12 diecast. Edited April 2 by vamach1 Added pics 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBorg Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugatti Fan Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 As I understand it, CMA will be offering the GT 40 as a kit too, but will most likely also be prohibitively expensive. I mentioned being surprised that MFH have not done it in 1/12th scale. But actually, I think that Tamiya would do well with this subject if they tackled it. Going bigger Agora or maybe the new Pocher (under Hornby) might come up with one in 1/8th scale. Who knows? Wishful thinking perhaps! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensar Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 Keep the reference pics coming, guys. I see I will have to go totally rogue on the plumbing. Trying to piece together the cooling system, I think the coolant comes out of the top of the engine block, up to the water tank, then out to the radiator, comes back to the pump on the lower side, out of the pump through the two tubes into the block. Anyone know if this is right? Then there's the oil system. Out of the bottom front of the block to the oil cooler, then to the filter, then back into the block next to the outlet pipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I'm in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Here is a couple of öpictures of the cooling system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamach1 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Force said: Here is a couple of öpictures of the cooling system. Thanks so much for posting. I was going to search online for a diagram like this so see if one existed. You would think companies that make models would do the same. I had already started modifying the kits to make it appear the radiator hoses will go from the water pump and block up to the front of the car where the radiator is mounted. I do not plan on running them the entire length as a large portion is hidden by the tunnel between the seats. I found a link (below) to a build of the MENG kit which has some nice diagrams also. https://www.themodellingnews.com/2021/06/build-review-ptii-mengs-12th-scale-ford.htm Edited April 2 by vamach1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensar Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 May the Force be with us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) Here is the oil system. The scavenge pump wich suck the oil from the pan is at the front, the forward outlet goes to the oil tank and the rear is where the oil from the tank gets back to the engine through the standard oil pump, the filter housing is not used and replaced with an adaptor for remote filter and oil cooler. Here is the adaptor for the remote oil filter and oil cooler and back into the oil gallery in the engine, one out one in, the brass piece is the oil pressure sensor for the oil lamp and the outlet for the oil pressure gauge. Edited April 2 by Force 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamach1 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Thanks again. The Force is with us. 😉 Here is one more picture but a diagram in this case is worth dozens of pictures. We have the best of both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 You are welcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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