Views on contest classes and 3d printing

[NOBLNG]

I don’t intend to ever get competitive but here’s my take on it. If the model (or a substantial portion of it) can be reproduced with the touch of a button then it is not scratch built and should have its own category.

[peteski]

5 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

I don’t intend to ever get competitive but here’s my take on it. If the model (or a substantial portion of it) can be reproduced with the touch of a button then it is not scratch built and should have its own category.

Assuming that the model in question was actually designed by the individual entering the contest, the fact that he spend as much time designing it on the computer screen as it would have making it from physical materials, and that they had too learn the CAD skills to be able to design the model in the first place doesn't count?

Anyways, none of this likely matters all that much  because 3D models are entered in the same contest categories as standard factory-molded model kits.  My club's annual contest and other contests I have attended or participated in did not have "Scratchbuilt" category.    I am curious which model contest actually have "Scratchbuilt" category.

But when judging models my club uses a point system and one of the judging categories is "difficulty level".  A scratchbuilt model will score much higher than a typical injection molded styrene kit. 

Edited Monday at 03:23 AM by peteski

[niteowl7710]

4 hours ago, peteski said:

Assuming that the model in question was actually designed by the individual entering the contest, the fact that he spend as much time designing it on the computer screen as it would have making it from physical materials, and that they had too learn the CAD skills to be able to design the model in the first place doesn't count?

Anyways, none of this likely matters all that much  because 3D models are entered in the same contest categories as standard factory-molded model kits.  My club's annual contest and other contests I have attended or participated in did not have "Scratchbuilt" category.    I am curious which model contest actually have "Scratchbuilt" category.

But when judging models my club uses a point system and one of the judging categories is "difficulty level".  A scratchbuilt model will score much higher than a typical injection molded styrene kit. 

The only shows that I know that have/had a dedicated "Scratchbuilt" category/categories were GSL (with the If I had Designed It class) and IPMS Nationals.  Some Regional and Invitational IPMS contests have or have had Scratchbuilt classes included if the previous contests demonstrated enough entries to justify them.

[niteowl7710]

7 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I think that 3-D printing is a wonderful thing, but I also feel that as these things become more and more readily available, there should be some mechanism to insure that the individual who goes to the extremes to try to compete with assemblies that can be simply purchased and installed, is still recognized for his effort.

This argument about "checkbook modeling" has been in the hobby for entire time I've been old enough to be aware of it - so 35+ years (out of the 40 I've been building models).  Back then it was resin, p/e, turned metal and pre-wired distributors.  Just because you can buy something doesn't mean you can actually use it effectively.  Making a model into a blingatron shrine to the aftermarket means nothing if it's not executed properly.  Very little 3D modeling is done to be model-specific, and even what is still isn't exactly plug and play.

[Ace-Garageguy]

31 minutes ago, niteowl7710 said:

This argument about "checkbook modeling" has been in the hobby for entire time I've been old enough to be aware of it ...

Real-car building too. 

Dumping boxcar loads of cash to win contests is nothing new there either.

Very few guys working in their garages are going to be able to turn out Ridler or AMBR quality, but there are maybe one in a billion.  

Back to the topic: to date, Mr. Cunningham's models are the only mostly-3D-printed work I've seen that's truly game-changing-spectacular, so I really don't think most of us have much to worry about.

And being personally acquainted with him and having an idea of the massive effort and time in experimentation and re-dos he's expended to achieve what he has, I sincerely doubt we'll encounter that level of quality soon, if ever, on contest tables everywhere.  

Edited Monday at 05:11 AM by Ace-Garageguy

[Spex84]

I find this conversation interesting.
I'm currently working on cleaning up some 3D printed parts that I designed myself. I could scratchbuild them using traditional techniques, but it would take me forever and a half. With 3D modeling and printing, the "hard work" was done digitally, and now I just have to fill,prime,paint and assemble....just like a box-stock kit. It's a huge relief to build model where all the engineering has been resolved already, versus the knotty challenges inherent in kitbashing/scratchbuilding. I personally think that traditional scratchbuilding is the province of masters; just about anyone can paint a model and then glue it together. Heck, I still probably won't even do a very good job of it, which would be a problem if I was competing. 

I find that all questions of skill, detail, authenticity, etc etc can be resolved by deleting the concept of competition as a valid model for evaluating the relative merits of a scale model. Remove the competition, and there are only two types of modelers: the ones who have enjoyed the challenge of building a model, and the ones who need a new hobby. 

 

 

 

 

[W-409]

To me as a builder, 3D printed parts are just another form on aftermarket parts, just like a traditional resin part, but produced with a different technique. They are often very good, other than the printing texture that they often have, and that's often very tricky to remove because the parts are fiddly. With that said, I'm not a huge fan of 3D parts in general, so if I'm looking for a certain part and I can choose between a 3D printed part and a resin cast part, I will go with the resin cast version all day. But in many cases the 3D parts are only ones that are available and I don't have a problem using them on my builds if I'm not able to source the parts from anywhere else or scratchbuild them.

As far as the Box Stock discussion goes, I don't build box stock models so basically I don't care... However, in my opinion a 3D printed model should not be allowed in that category as I think it's the same as a resin kit, which I don't think would fit in box stock either.

 

I appreciate the work needed to design the 3D parts (and that's something I would never be able to do on a computer). For the builder that uses those printed parts on their model, they're just like any other aftermarket or resin cast parts. But personally, I appreciate the most anyone who can build the same parts using kit sources and / or scratchbuilding. Maybe it's because that's the technique that I understand and use myself, but that's just me. 

3D parts are nice, but they have their ups and downs, just like any other aftermarket parts. 

[bobss396]

On 9/20/2025 at 1:52 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Well, there’s that, and then sometimes I wonder if it’s just a case of whether or not some of the people that are judging really have any idea of what they’re looking at.

I like to think that it’s more of just a case of inexperience rather than bias, but I’ve absolutely seen the results of one, or possibly both.

Steve

From what I have seen, when it comes time to judge a contest, it is hard to come up with enough "qualified" people to get it done in an orderly fashion.

I've heard of some really bad things at our own show over the years with some well known modelers getting skunked despite excellent entries. 

We used to have judging clinics at meetings. This is also a good way to lock in a good judge line up for upcoming shows. The last one I recall was the month prior to the show.

[bobss396]

16 hours ago, meechum68 said:

As one who uses resin to enhance kits I am working on, I wouldn't mind seeing something like: 

Modified builds using resin.

1/2 resin builds.

Full resin Builds. 

 

Of course those are just a very basic classes, they could be expanded upon with more solidification. 

And I love this topic as others have stated.  So many well thought out ideas and points. 

Oh and this is why I love this forum, the great thought building and great tips.

 

Then the category numbers get out of hand. Plus you may only have 1, 2 or no entries in one of those 3. The money to buy those trophies is wasted.

We try to keep it down to around 27 classes, not counting best-of packages. There are discussions most years, what classes can be eliminated, what can be added. It goes up to a club vote.

With a total of close to 100 awards being given out, we recognize about 1/3 of the entries.

Edit: I looked for a flyer for our show with no luck. The back has the contest rules.

I believe that it had on it, that 60% of any entry had to come from a model "kit". Going forward to today, the word "kit" would have to be defined.

One local craftsman brought in 100% scratch-built airplane engines in scale that ran on gasoline. He did start one up at a show. They were all masterpieces, everything machined from metals.

IIRC, these entries went into the miscellaneous category.

Edited Monday at 11:47 AM by bobss396

[Beans]

In the end it's skill and time that give the best results, no matter what the "advantage" in parts may be.  I can get the best 3D printed parts and photo etched detail up sets and still make a giant mess of them.  It's just a skill I have.  

 

That being said, the judging does matter.  Are models judged on quality of build or detail of build?  Does the amount of overall effort the builder put into the model factor higher than the overall look of the finished model? I honestly don't know.  

There will always be consternation between people competing in any way.  When I was involved in shooting sports it was the same way.  Those who spent their money on top of the line speed equipment were labeled as "gamers" who's efforts and practice time were devalued by the average shooters who made due with base model equipment.  

Building excellent models takes skill no matter what parts are used.  If the judging is based on the skills then what was used shouldn't matter. (shouldn't being the important work there)

 

[bobss396]

I think we will have to see how it plays out in upcoming shows. 

If anyone has contest rules pertinent to the subject matter, please chime in.