why do some people insist on details?

[martinfan5]

Build to suit your fancy. The key to modeling is plain old HAVE FUN! Besides If I dont build some kits box stock I will never live to see the day I finish up my Hoard!

Oh know, you said the F word, thats not allowed in our hobby , we are to take it seriously all the time

[southpier]

To people not in the hobby or new to the hobby, the level of detail is what is impressive. Oh boy, look there is a little cd stuck in the cd player! Oh boy, there is a pair of dice hanging from the rear view mirror! These things are perfectly fine and do add to the model - if executed well. But many of us have come to learn the real skill of model building is elsewhere. It's been said a million times, but what's important is having fun. If you enjoy the finished product, then it's a success. My first first models were absolutely awful. But at that time I was way more proud of what I had done. I wanted to show those models off. Now that my models are pretty good, I'm almost embarrassed by them. Well, the paint isn't absolutely perfect. Or some other minor imperfection makes you hate the whole thing. You think you've done something great until you see that some guy out there in another state has done something more amazing than you can imagine. And all of a sudden your very good model looks pretty ordinary. For you golfers out there I'll make a comparison. I am a professional. (Not on the tour, but in the business) I see a lot of golfers who are scratch players or mid 70's players, and think they are hot stuff because they beat all their friends. But those of us that can really play are generally a humble bunch because we only compare ourselves to the best players in the world. If I go out and shoot 69, I guarantee I had no more enjoyment (if anything less) than the guy who shot 92. When I analyze my round, I will only think about the little mistakes. The guy who shoots 92 will proudly remember the 5 fantastic shots he hit.

this is a good analogy

[CadillacPat]

Just like anything I do, the more fun it is the more seriously I enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unlike some I don't believe that Fun is diametrically opposite to being Serious about your work.

The more you like doing something it only supports the fact that you are serious about it.

It is amazing that anyone could oppose adding more detail to a project.

If you want your's plain then build it plain.

If you want to go the distance then do whatever you like.

Does anyone really build a Model with other opinions in mind? Who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!

CadillacPat

[Skip]

I build for myself. The two model contests that I have ever entered were way back in the seventh grade when our Jr-Hi had a model car contest, then the county fair that same year which would have been like 1968. There was so much whining and backstabbing in both contests that I have never and will never enter a model contest of any kind again. The contest at school was probably 50 - 75 model cars from 7th - 9th graders. The county fair at least 40 - 50 models or more.

The model that I built for that contest was an (then) aftermarket Revell Parts Pack (Kent Fuller style) Dragster Frame (the red one) at a whopping .79 cents, the Dragster Parts Pack chrome stuff at an additional .79 cents the motor was a completely stock Olds from one of the original Skipper's Critter Anglia kits, the rear slicks came from that kit as well. Front tires and scatter shield came from a TV Tommy Ivo dragster that I traded the seats from the Anglia for. The engine wire was thread, fuel line from tank was bell telephone wire, straight aluminum tubing headers slipped onto the stubs of the Anglia headers, the seat came from a couple of the custom front seats out of the Revell '56 Chevy. For a 12 - 13 year old kid it wasn't too bad of a model, blue paint wasn't that great, but it wasn't a glue bomb. (I had an uncle and older brother who passed down a lot of tricks, we all read Car Model and Model Car Science magazines cover to cover.)

Ok with that description you know what the fellow contestants major complaint in both contests were? (1.) The Dragster was not a kit, just (an aftermarket) frame. OK that was true. (2.) The "material used to make the ignition wires headers and fuel line wasn't part of a kit. (??) (3.) The whole model wasn't based on one kit but many. (??) Those were the complaints from fellow competitors. No one else added detailing items of any kind to their models other than paint. The Judges, the school librarian (car guy), vice principal (drove a '62 'Vette daily driver) and a local AA/F dragster driver (Herm Petersen, look him up). My model won first place at school, then a blue ribbon at the county fair with an invitation to the state fair.

What I hear when others either complain or point out the use of or excessive use of aftermarket details photo etch, machined bits... are those same Jr-Hi kids whining "my model didn't win"! That's all it was, just winning (and whining). None of the guys who built models traded building techniqes or formed a club as the sponsors hoped. Everyone was too busy trashing each other to gain anything good from it. (To add insult to the experience the First Prize - Lindberg Bobtail T was sealed and incomplete given by an unknown donor, so it couldn't be returned.) It's all laughable now.

if it makes you happy building a box stock model do it, if you need to superdetail it with add on bits and bobs go for it. Build what makes you happy! Just build. Have a great time while you build and build what you like.

[Casey]

Unlike some I don't believe that Fun is diametrically opposite to being Serious about your work.

Shades of Wheelman in that reply. The attitude against people who do[/ take their work seriously was something Mike was very passionate about, and I tend to agree. I don't see anything wrong with taking this hobby seriously, either, and if someone builds for the sole purpose of competing and winning trophies, more power to them. A perfectly polished out paint job and loads of aftermarket sourced parts may not be your or my thing, but there's room for everyone in this hobby, regardless of what, why, or how you build.

[martinfan5]

Shades of Wheelman in that reply. The attitude against people who do[/ take their work seriously was something Mike was very passionate about, and I tend to agree. I don't see anything wrong with taking this hobby seriously, either, and if someone builds for the sole purpose of competing and winning trophies, more power to them. A perfectly polished out paint job and loads of aftermarket sourced parts may not be your or my thing, but there's room for everyone in this hobby, regardless of what, why, or how you build.

[southpier]

I build for myself. The two model contests that I have ever entered were way back in the seventh grade when our Jr-Hi had a model car contest, then the county fair that same year which would have been like 1968. There was so much whining and backstabbing in both contests that I have never and will never enter a model contest of any kind again. The contest at school was probably 50 - 75 model cars from 7th - 9th graders. The county fair at least 40 - 50 models or more.

The model that I built for that contest was an (then) aftermarket Revell Parts Pack (Kent Fuller style) Dragster Frame (the red one) at a whopping .79 cents, the Dragster Parts Pack chrome stuff at an additional .79 cents the motor was a completely stock Olds from one of the original Skipper's Critter Anglia kits, the rear slicks came from that kit as well. Front tires and scatter shield came from a TV Tommy Ivo dragster that I traded the seats from the Anglia for. The engine wire was thread, fuel line from tank was bell telephone wire, straight aluminum tubing headers slipped onto the stubs of the Anglia headers, the seat came from a couple of the custom front seats out of the Revell '56 Chevy. For a 12 - 13 year old kid it wasn't too bad of a model, blue paint wasn't that great, but it wasn't a glue bomb. (I had an uncle and older brother who passed down a lot of tricks, we all read Car Model and Model Car Science magazines cover to cover.)

Ok with that description you know what the fellow contestants major complaint in both contests were? (1.) The Dragster was not a kit, just (an aftermarket) frame. OK that was true. (2.) The "material used to make the ignition wires headers and fuel line wasn't part of a kit. (??) (3.) The whole model wasn't based on one kit but many. (??) Those were the complaints from fellow competitors. No one else added detailing items of any kind to their models other than paint. The Judges, the school librarian (car guy), vice principal (drove a '62 'Vette daily driver) and a local AA/F dragster driver (Herm Petersen, look him up). My model won first place at school, then a blue ribbon at the county fair with an invitation to the state fair.

What I hear when others either complain or point out the use of or excessive use of aftermarket details photo etch, machined bits... are those same Jr-Hi kids whining "my model didn't win"! That's all it was, just winning (and whining). None of the guys who built models traded building techniqes or formed a club as the sponsors hoped. Everyone was too busy trashing each other to gain anything good from it. (To add insult to the experience the First Prize - Lindberg Bobtail T was sealed and incomplete given by an unknown donor, so it couldn't be returned.) It's all laughable now.

if it makes you happy building a box stock model do it, if you need to superdetail it with add on bits and bobs go for it. Build what makes you happy! Just build. Have a great time while you build and build what you like.

holy smokes. if winning leaves this kind of scars, what are the losers going through!

[Skip]

holy smokes. if winning leaves this kind of scars, what are the losers going through!

Actually it was a rather longwinded way of pointing out that those same complaints about the P-E, machined storebought bits are nothing new.

[martinfan5]

if it makes you happy building a box stock model do it, if you need to superdetail it with add on bits and bobs go for it. Build what makes you happy! Just build. Have a great time while you build and build what you like.

Thats all that really needs to be said, well said

[Skip]

Talked to a co-worker, car-guy, best bud at work about this today. He's also a casual car modeler as well. He pointed out the fact that we both have big cars that we take to shows how some of the people who bring cars which range from sorta stock to some full tilt hot Hot Rods. His point was that there are guys who show up at any given car show with one thing on their mind. Win that Trophy, Plaque!!! Win, Win, WIN,WIN,Win,win!!!! We hear the same droning whine all the time how so and so's car shouldn't be in such and such catagory it's not stock, it's not a hot rod, it's not a real Cobra, how dare they do that to a real Corvette, it's not a '67 - '69 Camaro, the Mustang badge is a little crooked or has wax residue..... If you can think of it someone's sniveled about it at a car show! You want to see some people get really wacked out go to an all British Field Meet, (in the states) they take their English Cars very seriously would be an understatement!

Both he and I have had show winners (and losers), Muscle Cars, Camaro's, GTO's, 'Vette's, Hot Rods, Bug's, Truck's... (He's had more cars than I've ever thought about having!) Point is we've both had our share of nice cars and been around car shows for a long time. Our families have hung out together at a lot of these events and always had a great time doing so.

He made the statement that hit me in the gut, fits this discussion to a T. "When I stop having a good time just hanging out with other people who think cars are as cool and worth preserving as I do now, it's time to sell it and quit because it's become work not a hobby!"

[Tye Brown]

Just build what you want/how to build man. It's all for fun In saying that thou man. I have noticed on this site if you don't build award winning cars or your not in a certain circle of people you get very little replys to your builds man. It makes you want to give up sometimes dude

[martinfan5]

Just build what you want/how to build man. It's all for fun

Agreed 100%, I would add more, but it would just end up getting me in trouble I think

[2002p51]

holy smokes. if winning leaves this kind of scars, what are the losers going through!

I was once the judge of the automotive class in a local IPMS show. Being IPMS, they had a point system in place for judging with a maximum possible point total of 100. It was a very specific set of criteria and left little room for subjective opinion. The car that won the class and Best Car in the show scored 98 points. For comparison, the second place car scored a mere 57 points, and the rest of the class went down from there. The winning car was clearly head and shoulders above the competition and just may have been the best model I've ever seen.

After the awards were presented we were all standing around when the builder of the winning car came up to me and was absolutely irate! I thought he was ready to fight. He demanded to know why he didn't get the full 100 points he felt he deserved and was almost screaming at me wanting to know why I didn't see this feature on his model or that one and didn't I know how much he had to rework a certain part to make it look better, and on and on!

Here was a guy who won everything he could've in dominating fashion and wasn't happy.

It takes all kinds!

[John Pol]

Personally I find the aftermarket stuff is great .Be here today gone tomorrow I`m old school try to scratchbuild I buy the odd thing aftermarket but don`t depend on them.I fill sorry for the people that depend on the aftermarket.Are the people going to do if that item you use alot closes up shop what are the guys going to do than.Quit building because they can`t get those aftermarket parts no more. There are alot of people that depend on them once they are gone.I think alot of guys would quit building.

John Pol

[tubbs]

It takes all kinds!

nuff said !!!

[CadillacPat]

Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

CadillacPat, on 02 Jan 2013 - 15:52, said:

Unlike some I don't believe that Fun is diametrically opposite to being Serious about your work.

Shades of Wheelman in that reply. The attitude against people who do[/ take their work seriously was something Mike was very passionate about, and I tend to agree. I don't see anything wrong with taking this hobby seriously, either, and if someone builds for the sole purpose of competing and winning trophies, more power to them. A perfectly polished out paint job and loads of aftermarket sourced parts may not be your or my thing, but there's room for everyone in this hobby, regardless of what, why, or how you build.

Casey I don't know who Wheelman is but it appears we have some thoughts in common about being serious and passionate about this Art.

Just build what you want/how to build man. It's all for fun In saying that thou man. I have noticed on this site if you don't build award winning cars or your not in a certain circle of people you get very little replys to your builds man. It makes you want to give up sometimes dude

HippieDude, don't give replies a second thought. Their fine for the social part of a Forum or for those who feel they must rreply to each and every thread,

But,

Many serious Modelers and Hobbyists choose to view or read, and not play.

I sell what I build so I never think about comments even when I post the work.

Just let them all look, then build some more and post it up too.

Emoticons and attaboys don't mean much to me.

There's always a clique or circle on any site. Just let your work speak for itself. Some replies aren't worth the bandwidth it takes to display them.

CadillacPat

http://route66customs.com/

http://purplepassioncustoms.com/

[James2]

Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

[Gramps2u]

"When I stop having a good time just hanging out with other people who think cars are as cool and worth preserving as I do now, it's time to sell it and quit because it's become work not a hobby!"

Well said

[Jantrix]

I do just a few local contests. And happily, I have yet to experience any issue with mega detailed builds beating one that had superior craftsmanship.

I have been invited to judge at the one IPMS show I do and they put me with the most experienced judges to train me how to do it. They taught me to look for the following.

1. Cleanliness- Mold lines, flash, ejector marks, visible glue.

2. Fit - does everything fit right? Four wheels touching ground?

3. Finish- is the painting done well and appropriate for the model?

Thats about it. If the models are a tie after those three points, then we can add points for modifications. If you are at a contest where they do not judge that way, then don't go back. When builders stop coming they will get the message.

My contest peeve is when the entire contest is judged by popular vote. But that is a rant for another thread.

[Terry Sumner]

I was once the judge of the automotive class in a local IPMS show. Being IPMS, they had a point system in place for judging with a maximum possible point total of 100. It was a very specific set of criteria and left little room for subjective opinion. The car that won the class and Best Car in the show scored 98 points. For comparison, the second place car scored a mere 57 points, and the rest of the class went down from there. The winning car was clearly head and shoulders above the competition and just may have been the best model I've ever seen.

After the awards were presented we were all standing around when the builder of the winning car came up to me and was absolutely irate! I thought he was ready to fight. He demanded to know why he didn't get the full 100 points he felt he deserved and was almost screaming at me wanting to know why I didn't see this feature on his model or that one and didn't I know how much he had to rework a certain part to make it look better, and on and on!

Here was a guy who won everything he could've in dominating fashion and wasn't happy.

It takes all kinds!

Just out of curiosity Drew...what WAS wrong with that model that cost him his "perfect score?" And after you pointed out his flaw, what was his reaction to that flaw?

[sjordan2]

One minor piece of aftermarket detail that makes a lot of difference to me is mesh grille screen for the types of cars that I build - old sports cars and classics. Looks a lot better than the molded-in kit grille patterns. Simple to use for many kits, after sanding away the kit grille mesh from behind. Lots of different sizes available.

[Ace-Garageguy]

One minor piece of aftermarket detail that makes a lot of difference to me is mesh grille screen for the types of cars that I build - old sports cars and classics. Looks a lot better than the molded-in kit grille patterns. Simple to use for many kits, after sanding away the kit grille mesh from behind. Lots of different sizes available.

I agree with Skip in principle, in that a FEW well-chosen aftermarket details do a lot more to enhance a model than festooning it with everything available, especially when some of said excessive details might be poorly applied, inaccurate, or inappropriate for the model.

I've seen models loaded down with fuel and coolant hoses going every wrong which-way, impossible throttle linkages, plug wires as fat as sausages, etc. The stuff is great when it's done right, but if you want to do it, try to make it accurate. Mindless sticking-stuff-on doesn't make a better model.

[dodgefever]

I haven't waded through all five pages, but one thing that I wonder about is why people use certain aftermarket distributors i.e. those which are merely an aluminium tube with a bunch of wires coming out of the middle. Adding plug wires can do a lot for an engine, but those things just look ridiculous.

[2002p51]

Just out of curiosity Drew...what WAS wrong with that model that cost him his "perfect score?" And after you pointed out his flaw, what was his reaction to that flaw?

If I remember correctly there was a visible mold seam on a chrome part. This was in the days before Alclad.

And that was his claim, no way to remove the seam without destroying the chrome.

[Tom Geiger]

If I remember correctly there was a visible mold seam on a chrome part. This was in the days before Alclad.

And that was his claim, no way to remove the seam without destroying the chrome.

To have the 100 point car, one would send the chrome out to get done in those days! He should've!