What Irked You Today?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Today is day 49 that a local (very high rated) body shop has had our wife's FJ Cruiser in the shop 

I can NOT imagine how anyone could take that long to do anything, short of rebuilding a total that was wadded up like a ball of tinfoil. I've owned and run body shops, and that time frame is INSANE. Most insurance companies will only pick up rentals for a very well defined period of time, and there's no way in hell they'd cover 49 days. Every shop I've ever run (or even worked in) has made a priority of quick turnaround. You really don't make any money if cars are tied up for that long, the parts get lost, the techs forget where they were in the project...it's just not the way you do business.

Of course, it's not the way you do business IF YOU HAVE A BRAIN. I keep forgetting...we're firmly entrenched in the idocracy now, and it's just getting worse and worse.

[Harry P.]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone who works as a dealership mechanic, but I really don't like the way dealerships charge for a repair based on the "book," not on reality.

This happened to me several years ago. The outside rear-view mirror on our minivan got broken off, so I headed to the local Dodge dealer. Once I saw the minivan had been taken into the service area, I sort of hung around the showroom, looking at the new cars. I went outside after about 20 minutes or so to check out the new cars that were out in the lot. That's when I saw my wife's minivan, mirror already replaced, sitting in a back part of the service area (I could see it through the window). I was surprised to see the van had already been fixed, so I went back inside to wait until they called my name on the PA.

Well, they didn't call my name. Some time passed, and I was getting curious. I figured I would just hang out and see how things unfolded, because I had a feeling what was going on. Had a cup of coffee, checked out more new cars in the showroom, etc. About two hours passed before they called my name and told me my van was ready.

Obviously they billed me for two hours worth of repair time (at that time they were charging I think $80/hr labor). That was the "book" time for that specific job. The actual time was about 15 minutes.

I didn't say anything, because I knew it would be pointless to argue. But that was literally the last time I have ever taken a car back to the dealer for repairs (unless it was under factory warranty). Out of warranty, I will never take another car to a dealer for repairs. I found a good local, independent shop with an owner who has served the community for 35 years. His reputation is his lifeblood, and he treats his customers fairly and honestly. I even buy my tires and batteries through him instead of the chain stores. Dealerships are nothing but ripoff joints.

[Olskoolrodder]

I can NOT imagine how anyone could take that long to do anything, short of rebuilding a total that was wadded up like a ball of tinfoil. I've owned and run body shops, and that time frame is INSANE. Most insurance companies will only pick up rentals for a very well defined period of time, and there's no way in hell they'd cover 49 days. Every shop I've ever run (or even worked in) has made a priority of quick turnaround. You really don't make any money if cars are tied up for that long, the parts get lost, the techs forget where they were in the project...it's just not the way you do business.

Of course, it's not the way you do business IF YOU HAVE A BRAIN. I keep forgetting...we're firmly entrenched in the idocracy now, and it's just getting worse and worse.

LOL,yeah,I know exactly what you mean,SMH

Harry P. ,man...you were more calm about it that day with the mirror than I would have been. They would not have been paid for 2 hours labor,and I wouldn't have waited,LOL,I woulda been like "Hey,is my van finished?",and if they lied and said "not yet",I woulda called them on it. That's completely theft of your hard earned $,a direct and intentional overcharging (which is illegal in this state,BTW). Props for keeping your cool,my friend

[redneckrigger]

Just opened my insurance bill for the next 6 months, it's gone up around $100?!  If my June payment follows this one, that'll make my yearly bill over $1400.00 for two vehicles, one of which will literally be 18 years old next month!

OUCH!!! That's expensive! I have a 2011 Toyota, a 2012 Silverado, a 2000 Harley Ultra Classic, and a 1991 Mustang GT hotrod all insured with collision here in Vermont for under 1000$ per year. Of course, we don't have the traffic you have where you live. Been there, like VT better!

[redneckrigger]

I hope this doesn't offend anyone who works as a dealership mechanic, but I really don't like the way dealerships charge for a repair based on the "book," not on reality.

This happened to me several years ago. The outside rear-view mirror on our minivan got broken off, so I headed to the local Dodge dealer. Once I saw the minivan had been taken into the service area, I sort of hung around the showroom, looking at the new cars. I went outside after about 20 minutes or so to check out the new cars that were out in the lot. That's when I saw my wife's minivan, mirror already replaced, sitting in a back part of the service area (I could see it through the window). I was surprised to see the van had already been fixed, so I went back inside to wait until they called my name on the PA.

Well, they didn't call my name. Some time passed, and I was getting curious. I figured I would just hang out and see how things unfolded, because I had a feeling what was going on. Had a cup of coffee, checked out more new cars in the showroom, etc. About two hours passed before they called my name and told me my van was ready.

Obviously they billed me for two hours worth of repair time (at that time they were charging I think $80/hr labor). That was the "book" time for that specific job. The actual time was about 15 minutes.

I didn't say anything, because I knew it would be pointless to argue. But that was literally the last time I have ever taken a car back to the dealer for repairs (unless it was under factory warranty). Out of warranty, I will never take another car to a dealer for repairs. I found a good local, independent shop with an owner who has served the community for 35 years. His reputation is his lifeblood, and he treats his customers fairly and honestly. I even buy my tires and batteries through him instead of the chain stores. Dealerships are nothing but ripoff joints.

That dealer ran a flat rate shop. They charge by the Motor's Flat Rate labor book regardless of the time it takes. That is how they make their money, besides the high rates. Body shops do the same thing. A collision job may say a fender takes 5 hours to remove, replace and paint. If the body technician gets it done in 3.5 hours, the shop gets paid for the 5 and the tech gets a bonus on the hours saved. Your decision to use the local guy is a GOOD one!

[Tom Geiger]

That dealer ran a flat rate shop. They charge by the Motor's Flat Rate labor book regardless of the time it takes. That is how they make their money, besides the high rates. Body shops do the same thing. A collision job may say a fender takes 5 hours to remove, replace and paint. If the body technician gets it done in 3.5 hours, the shop gets paid for the 5 and the tech gets a bonus on the hours saved. Your decision to use the local guy is a GOOD one!

Yup, dealer gets three hours flat rate to change a starter on a Dodge 2.4 engine.  I changed it myself in about 45 minutes and I had never done that one before!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Bashing dealerships is always good sport, and I do it too...they're usually overpriced and incompetent, especially today. But that $100/hr you're paying is NOT for good mechanics to work on your car. You're paying for a big clean new shiny showroom and shop, and a lot of managers who generate zero income. 

Thing is though, because of the flat-rate system, a really smokin' mechanic used to be able make a 6-figure income (when $100k was still some money) by "beating the book" consistently. 

The flat "rates" in the book were determined by what it actually took a competent mechanic to do the operation on a new, undamaged vehicle. They weren't just random greedy numbers pulled out of someone's backside. But every year, they seem to bear less and less similarity to reality. Creeping idiocracy again. (And I won't even get started on what the insurance business has done to the body-repair industry in the last 10 years...but it's almost criminal how bad consumers AND body shops are getting screwed)

Many dealership shops around here no longer hire real mechanics because they have to pay them. They'd rather hire iPhone-obsessed mouth-breather 18-year olds who will "work" for $10 per hour, generally have no clue as to 'what makes a car go', and if the computer-diagnostics can't pinpoint the problem, they're helpless as naked babes in a blizzard.

Find an old fart who actually understands cars, and feel free to pay him what he's worth. He's a dying breed.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

 Find an old fart who actually understands cars, and feel free to pay him what he's worth. He's a dying breed.

I found one. And he's not at a dealership. He's the owner/operator of his own independent shop.

[dieseldawg142]

......

Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142

[Harry P.]

well, their not called "stealerships" for nothing...

No kidding. They operate as highly organized customer rip-off centers. I really don't like being played for a sap, like when they charged me for eight times the actual time spent replacing that broken mirror on the wife's minivan. That's why no dealer will ever see my business again unless the car is still under factory warranty. Out of warranty? No freaking way would I ever again take my car to a dealer for service.

[Harry P.]

Speaking of dealers... got a recall notice in the mail regarding the driver side airbag that may go off at any time without warning.

No choice this time but to go to the dealer... but at least the repair won't cost me anything, aside from the inconvenience and hassle of actually going there and getting the darn thing replaced.

[dieseldawg142]

..........

 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142

[Tom Geiger]

Even when I brought cars in for warranty work or recalls, the dealer always tried to sell me something! "Your Caravan is gonna need brakes someday, might as well get them done now!"

my sisters husband was a dealership mechanic and said that the service managers would arbitrarily come up with sales targets like " no car leaves here for less than $800 this week" and pressure mechanics to dream up repairs. The final straw for him was when the Chevy dealer he worked for stopped paying flat rate, still charging customers for it and pushing mechanics to work faster, but only paying them by the hour.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Even when I brought cars in for warranty work or recalls, the dealer always tried to sell me something! "Your Caravan is gonna need brakes someday, might as well get them done now!"

my sisters husband was a dealership mechanic and said that the service managers would arbitrarily come up with sales targets like " no car leaves here for less than $800 this week" and pressure mechanics to dream up repairs. The final straw for him was when the Chevy dealer he worked for stopped paying flat rate, still charging customers for it and pushing mechanics to work faster, but only paying them by the hour.

Yup. You got both the big profit-center strategies at most dealerships today. Screw the customer, screw the "techs". 

Your "final straw" remark above is exactly what I was referring to in my earlier post, about why many dealerships no longer hire "real" mechanics, and prefer to pay cheap kids who know almost nothing except how to hook up the diagnostic tools and read codes...if you can get them to stop texting long enough to do even that.

After working as an apprentice doing PDIs for a dealership in the '70s, progressing to the commission side and then going to several independent shops as a mechanic, I worked for a while as a service-writer. The policy I encountered at most dealer and chain shops was to sell sell sell as much as possible, whether the work was actually needed or not, and the more ignorant the customer the easier to screw them. 

And unfortunately, the old pay-the-mechanic-flat-rate system could easily be exploited by hack-job "mechanics" to boost their incomes by "beating the book". I have an ex-friend who did things like removing the plastic HVAC box from a Honda with a big pry-bar, breaking off all the mounting tabs rather than removing the fasteners. He put it back together with hot-glue. I know another guy who took a cutting-torch to an old Jag to get the trans out without having to pull the engine, then did a bodged stick-weld job putting it back in. 

"Hey man, it's just business. Gotta make a profit".

I refused to do business that way, and went on my own. Proved conclusively to myself it just isn't necessary to be a thief, a hack, and a liar to make a comfortable living...if you're actually a competent mechanic and diagnose problems correctly the first time, charge fairly for the work, communicate honestly with your clients, explain things to them in terms they can understand, and work up a sweat occasionally.

Unfortunately, most people still don't know enough about their cars to know if they're being bent over and reamed...whether by a dealership OR an independent shop. A good friend of 30 years who's retired but works part-time as a driver for a major parts chain (and knows the business from the inside, having been a real mechanic in the '60s and '70s) is amazed that most of the shops he delivers to can stay in business. He tells me they're predominantly idiots, technically ignorant, poorly organized morons. I believe him. 

 

 

[Harry P.]

Even when I brought cars in for warranty work or recalls, the dealer always tried to sell me something! "Your Caravan is gonna need brakes someday, might as well get them done now!"

Those muffler bearings look pretty beat, too, and your Johnson Rod has about had it. Not to mention it's way past time for your glove box alignment...

[Tom Geiger]

Those muffler bearings look pretty beat, too, and your Johnson Rod has about had it. Not to mention it's way past time for your glove box alignment...

Leave my Johnson Rod out of it!       But I do need the air in my tires changed.

[Deano]

Leave my Johnson Rod out of it!       But I do need the air in my tires changed.

You haven't changed to Winter Air yet?   Wassa matta u?

[Joe Handley]

Could just need to rotate the air in the tires.

[blunc]

and replacing the piston return springs when your compression gets low...

a failed "free floating pinion retainer" can cause your wheel to fall off, better get that replaced also.

too much flish in your carb really gums it up, better rebuild it... no, really, there's one of those on your "FI" motor also, it helps the injectors work more efficiently.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

It's better to have your AC serviced in the winter because it's easier to capture enough cold to release during the summer months, so you don't run out when it's really hot.

You should have the orbits of the planetary gears in your transmission adjusted semi-annually too, because if they get out of geosynchronization...well, let's just say it'll be expensive.

[Rob Hall]

And if your car is British, check the wiring harness for smoke leaks.

[blunc]

And if your car is British, check the wiring harness for smoke leaks.

there is replacement wiring harness smoke for Lucas electrical systems.

[cobraman]

Wow ! I haven't done any of that to my car yet ! : )

[Ace-Garageguy]

Wow ! I haven't done any of that to my car yet ! : )

Whatsamatter Ray? You wanna be stranded on the side of the road?

I bet you're still running on your original kniffler pins too, and if you are, your framislator bearings are definitely shot.

If those pins and bearings seize up, you can just forget about getting them out without having to pull the engine. Better get them done soon, son. 

Better get the photon reservoir for your headlights replaced too. I've seen cars with bad photon reservoirs get dimmer and dimmer headlights as they get older. Could certainly cause an accident at night.   

Edited December 26, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[cobraman]