Jon Haigwood Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Can't seem to find any kits for 50's/60's Sport Sedans aka Four Door Hardtops. Having owned at least two 1:1 cars with four doors and no post I just noticed a lack of kits for these. My first being a 57 Chev (that I bought for a penny from a friend that said he would never give anything away, hence the 1 penny price). As I remember it had a straight body, nice red paint and a white top. It had all the chrome and gold trim and fair interior. There was no title, engine or trans. We chopped it up with a axe and hacksaw and sold it for scrap. If only Second car was 58 Pontiac Chieftain I had for a short while, I think I traded it in on a new 67 Merc Comet. Just thought it would be fun to build something a bit different.
Casey Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Can't seem to find any kits for 50's/60's Sport Sedans aka Four Door Hardtops. There probably will never be any in kit form, but there are aftermarket options to get what you want, or at least close to it.
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 There are a lot of old Johan/X-EL promos & kits in 4-door hardtop form. Just gotta find them. In my collection I have a'57 & '59 Olds, a '58 Caddy, and a '59 Desoto. Probably a few others I'm not thinking of. All of the Johan Cadillac & Oldsmobile kits produced between '59 & '61 were 4 doors with the exception of the '60 Olds. Hubley & Revell also made a few from the early 60s. They're out there, just may take a little searching. Steve
Longbox55 Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Johan also did a '56 Pontiac Star Chief and an Oldsmobile 88 as 4 door hardtops.
MrObsessive Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Revell did the '57 Eldorado Brougham. However that kit needs MAJOR work to correct a lot of its shortcomings. It is a four door hardtop though.......... Unfortunately as Casey said, don't hold your breath for any kitmaker to tool up a new four door hardtop kit. For a lot of builders, I guess they just don't have the "cool" factor a two door or other sporty variant would have. Heck, I'd love to see more modern day four door sedans period! Pontiac G8, Cadillac CTS (current ones, and last version), current Dodge Charger to name a few.
Zarana-X Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 The only 4-door kits from American companies I can think of are police cars.
disabled modeler Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Me I love 4doors and wagons of the late 50s through mid 80s body styles...kits of promos.
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 This is one of those grand old Johan Oldsmobiles that I came across, that I hope to be re-building in the not too distant future. Steve
Erik Smith Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 This is one of those grand old Johan Oldsmobiles that I came across, that I hope to be re-building in the not too distant future. Steve That things awesome Steve!
Phirewriter Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The 1962 Olds from Johan was also a 4 door hardtop. Nice kit but really difficult to find. I have a nicely built one I picked up at the Toledo show 20 some years ago and have never come across another.
StevenGuthmiller Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The 1962 Olds from Johan was also a 4 door hardtop. Nice kit but really difficult to find. I have a nicely built one I picked up at the Toledo show 20 some years ago and have never come across another. I do see a '62 come across the block on ebay occasionally, but you're right, They're very hard to come by! Steve
disabled modeler Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have... 61 Pontiac Tempest 4door sedan 61? Olds 4door HT? and others Steve....That old Olds is sweet!
ChrisBcritter Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) PMC (or AMT?) did a '58 Chevy Bel Air four-door hardtop promo (later knocked off as a much cheaper Fire Chief and Police car that was a weird amalgam of Impala roof and tail with Bel Air sides). Revell's '62 Dodge and Imperial were four-door hardtops as well, along with the Revell/AMT '55 and '56 Buick Century. Last Jo-Han four-door Caddy was the '62 Fleetwood. Probably the last stock four-door hardtop issued was the AMT '70 LTD which became the four-door Galaxie cop car. (Wonder why the '70 LTD wasn't done as a coupe like all the previous ones?) Edited January 20, 2015 by ChrisBcritter
disabled modeler Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) PMC (or AMT?) did a '58 Chevy Bel Air four-door hardtop promo (later knocked off as a much cheaper Fire Chief and Police car that was a weird amalgam of Impala roof and tail with Bel Air sides). Revell's '62 Dodge and Imperial were four-door hardtops as well, along with the Revell/AMT '55 and '56 Buick Century. Last Jo-Han four-door Caddy was the '62 Fleetwood. Probably the last stock four-door hardtop issued was the AMT '70 LTD which became the four-door Galaxie cop car. (Wonder why the '70 LTD wasn't done as a coupe like all the previous ones?) Id be happy with the LTD door HT....it looks much better than the Galaxie 4door sedan did to me. Two others I have a re the Johan 59 and 62 Cadillac 4doors. Edited January 20, 2015 by disabled modeler
gtx6970 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I personally would love to see something produced where I could make a replica of my old car . I am not a ford guy but there is a small part of me that would like to have this car back. 1998 Contour SVT 200 hp 5 spd made this car a blast to drive.
Nitro Neil Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I would love to see a kit of a four-door GM flat top from 1959.
Foxer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) So far, I don't see any car mentioned in this thread as a "sports sedan". Edited January 20, 2015 by Foxer
Joe Handley Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 So far, I don't see any car mentioned in this thread as a "sports sedan". Outside of the mentioned Contour SVT and Charger, me neither.
Greg Myers Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Jon, looking at what you did to the two 1:1 cars you owned , I'd say you have your answer. Edited January 20, 2015 by Greg Myers
John Goschke Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 So far, I don't see any car mentioned in this thread as a "sports sedan". "Sport Sedan" was a term used by a number of manufacturers in the '50s and '60s to differentiate their four-door hardtops from their four-door sedans. Today "Sport Sedan" seems to mean a sedan, two-door or four-door, with upgraded performance and handling (probably a more accurate use of the term!) '59 Olds 98 Holiday Sport Sedan (aka four-door hardtop)... '59 Olds 98 Celebrity Four-Door Sedan
unclescott58 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Okay, there are a few people blogging here that do not seem to understand what a 4-door hardtop, a.k.a. "Sport Sedan" is. I assume these are younger guys, under the age of 35 or so, that were not around when this body style was being produced and popular. First the defining of a "4-door hardtop." This is a 4-door body style with no "B" pillar. So when you roll down all of the side windows, there is nothing between left between the windshield pillar ("A" pillar) and the sail panel (a.k.a. "C" pillar). There are no standing door frames or center pillars when the windows are rolled down. The '55 Buick Special and Century 4-door Riviera sedans are credited as being the first cars to popularize this style. Oldsmobile following close behind with their '55 88 and Super 88 4-door Holiday sedans. For 1956 most American car manufacturers started offering 4-door hardtops. Including Buick in their Roadmaster and Super lines, and Olds in their 98. But just as Buick called their hardtops Rivieras. And Olds called theirs Holidays. Other companies used other names. And mainly Chevrolet used the term "Sport Sedans" for their 4-door hardtops (Plymouth used it at times too). And since Chevrolet wa number 1 in sale back then, several people will end up referring to 4-door hardtops as "Sport Sedans." So this is the type of "Sport Sedans" Jon was talking about when he started with thread. Not just any 4-door. Or a "sport sedan" in the modern use of the term. I too love 4-door hardtops. Next to a "true" 4-door convertible (a 4-door folding top car with roll down side windows), it's my second favorite body style. Followed by the 2-door convertible. The hardtop wagon. 2-door hardtops. Coupes. And regular wagons, roadsters, phaetons, and sedans. Pretty much that order. As far as models go, there were several promos of 4-door hardtops offered mainly back in the 1950's. Including Chevrolet Sport Sedan promos offered by PMC for 1956, 1957, and 1958. By the way, as noted, other companies used other names used for hardtops. Originally Chevrolet called their 2-door hardtop the Bel Air. When Chevrolet turned Bel Air into a model line in '53 with other body types, they then called their 2-door hardtops "Sport Coupes." Ford dusted off the name Victoria for their early hardtops. When Mercury introduced their 4-door hardtops, they refered to them as Phaetons. Which they were not. DeSoto called their's Sportsmans. Chrysler called their's Newports, before expanding that into a model line in 1961. Dodges were Diplomats, then Lancers (though the Lancer name was also used on their convertibles at the time too). Hudson, Hollywood. Nash/Rambler, Country Club. Cadillac, DeVille. Imperial, Southampton. Plus there are others I can not remember off the top of my head right here now. Right now. This can be very confusing. But, I hope this helps clarify a few things, so we all end up to talking about the same thing here. Scott Edited January 20, 2015 by unclescott58
Foxer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Okay, there are a few people blogging here that do not seem to understand what a 4-door hardtop, a.k.a. "Sport Sedan" is. I assume these are younger guys, under the age of 35 or so, that were not around under the age of 35 or so, that were not around when this body style was being produced and popular. Scott I guess I'm the one that started this .. and I appreciate the definition, Scott. I didn't mean to offend or start a row here .. was just being a little sarcastic. I still don't see any of these as Sports Sedans .. only the marketers would. I'm surprised anyone would actually call these ill handling cars "sports". So .. I'm 68 years old. I did grow up with these and was an extreme car nut since I could speak. I could name every car on the road from a very young age. I stated building model cars in 1958 when AMT started with one piece bodies and custom parts. I think I lost my endearment of American cars when I got my drivers license and drove my fathers '65 Ford Galaxy .. here a teen with license and I refused to ever drive that ill handling behemoth ever! It was dangerous if you even had to take a corner .. at ANY speed. I AM happy to report that there are now true Sports Sedans being produced by American companies! Please cal them what they are .. 4-door Sedans, NOT Sports Sedans .. as the marketers want you to do. Look up BMW for a true 60's Sports Sedan .. or any number of other European makes. All in good nature, guys .. Edited January 20, 2015 by Foxer
unclescott58 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Please cal them what they are .. 4-door Sedans, NOT Sports Sedans .. as the marketers want you to do. Look up BMW for a true 60's Sports Sedan .. or any number of other European makes. All in good nature, guys .. Not only were they not "sport sedans." They were not true sedans. They are hardtops. Sometimes called hardtop sedans. But, they will never be just "4-door sedans" to me. Sedans have "B" pillars. Hardtops do not. A true hardtop, 2-door or 4, will always look better to me than any 2-door or 4-door sedan, or coupe to for that matter, to me. Scott
Jon Haigwood Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Greg Back in the day 4drhdtps were very common and no Car guy would ever have a 4dr anything, in fact a 4dr Charger would be laughed off the street and would be relegated to secretaries and nurses to drive I admit to the shame of chopping up a nice 57 for $50 in scrap metal and fear many other nice cars fell to this fate. I tried to do some research on the names of car styles over the years and just found it more confusing than when I started . I referenced to the term "Sport Sedan" because that is what Chevrolet did in57. Some define a Sedan as having a pillar and a Hardtop as having no pillar. This makes Sports Sedan a confusing term. I have always called them four door hard tops. I sometimes reminisce the "old days" when a you could buy a slightly used 67 Camaro SS350 for $1,900 and a new muscle car for about $3,000. Next time I post a similar question I will try and consider the younger builders to avoid confusion. Originally Hard Tops was the term used for cars build with a Hard Top as a apposed Soft Cloth Top. Using those terms a Hard Top could have a post between the side windows. I see were the Mini Cooper refer to their four door as a "Four Door Hard Top" when in fact there is a pillar. These terms change over the years as do others Thanks for the replies, they told me a lot. Edited January 20, 2015 by Jon Haigwood
Jon Haigwood Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 More confusion here you have a automobile referred to as a "Convertible, Hardtop and a Sedan"
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