Airplane Engines in Autos

[checkmate]

Rod Hadfield's '55 Chev, built in Australia and later taken to America and sold.

[Crazy Ed]

Then there's the Qual Al with it's 4 Allison Engines.

[Pat Minarick]

Here's one in a VW.

http://itwhotrods.com/images/photos/2014_Rat_Hard/1-Bugly%201%20week%20before%20competion.jpg

http://itwhotrods.com/images/photos/2014_Rat_Hard/1-Bugly%20engine%20building.jpg

Edited January 24, 2015 by Pat Minarick

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/24/2015 at 11:04 AM, Art Anderson said:

And then, there were the legendary "Chitty-Chitty Bang Bang" cars of the early 1920's, all of which were former pre-WWI Mercedes GP cars, with stretched frames, and Various WW-I aircraft engines up front!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitty_Bang_Bang

Art

Oh yes...wild and crazy stuff. The "Babs" LSR car in post #8 began life as Chitty #4.

[Ace-Garageguy]

And "Big Al", an Allison-powered '34 Ford built by the same guy who built the 4-engined Fiat above...

Or how about a BMW Isetta with an Allison?

[Greg Myers]

Model A banger in a plane

[Greg Myers]

SBC ?

[unclescott58]

How about AMT's old Allison Thunderland funny car model kit? I built one about year ago, and posted photos on this site. Built the model just because it used the cool motor.

Scott

[Greg Myers]

[Greg Myers]

How many aircraft engines are actually kitted in 1/25th (1/24th) ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/24/2015 at 4:19 PM, Greg Myers said:

How many aircraft engines are actually kitted in 1/25th (1/24th) ?

There are Merlins, Daimler-Benz V-12s, and a radial or two in the Airfix (and other) 1/24 warbird kits.

[sjordan2]

The Rolls Phantom III had a Merlin-based V12.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/24/2015 at 5:14 PM, sjordan2 said:

The Rolls Phantom III had a Merlin-based V12.

How can this be, when the Merlin started life as a 27 liter SOHC engine (2 cams, one per cylinder bank), and the unit in the Phantom III was only around 7 liters, with a pushrod valvetrain, single cam-in-block ?

Edited January 24, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[GLMFAA1]

Jet turbines - Airfix Harrier kit, Monogram Huey kit

Radials in FW 190, Japanese Zero, Betty and Jane kits from Trumpeteer

V12's in P51, Spitfire, Hurricaine, Two in Mosquito, Stuka, Me109

!/20th scale Air cooled 6 - GMark Bell 47 and Aerosubaru, Turbine engine in Hughes 500

add to the list if you can think of others, my mind just melted,

greg

[sjordan2]

  On 1/24/2015 at 5:32 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

How can this be, when the Merlin started life as a 27 liter SOHC engine (2 cams, one per cylinder bank), and the unit in the Phantom III was only around 7 liters, with a pushrod valvetrain, single cam-in-block ?

My source for that statement appears to have been less precise than it should have been and could refer to a restored car. Here's more detail from RM Auctions.

By the time the Phantom II ended its limited production run, plans were already well underway at Rolls-Royce for development of newer military aircraft engines. Initially designated PV-12, the Merlin aero engine was Henry Royce’s final design before his passing in 1933, and was originally intended to fill the gap between the company’s upper and lower horsepower extremes. Over a period of various tests and modifications, early issues with reliability were resolved to produce one of the most successful military engines of all time and, quite possibly, the most important engine of World War II.

The massive V12 engine displaced nearly 1,650 cubic inches and, fitted with a two-stage supercharger, produced well over 1,400 horsepower. A contract with Packard yielded a Merlin-powered P-51 Mustang, which, alongside the nimble British Spitfires were partly responsible for turning the tide of the Second World War. Over 160,000 Merlin engines were produced and fitted into a wide variety of aircraft and continue to be highly sought after by enthusiasts.

While Rolls-Royce’s fabled Merlins have found various, limited marine and automotive applications after the 1940s, few have been as attractive and astonishing as this 1931 Rolls-Royce Phantom II. Fitted with a Merlin I engine that produces approximately 1,100 horsepower sans supercharger, this particular Phantom II is truly one of a kind. In fact, the only comparable automobile is a Phantom III, likewise fitted with such an engine and presently in the esteemed collection of comedian and auto enthusiast Jay Leno. Chassis 64GX did indeed begin its life as a Phantom II and was eventually owned by one Mr. Stephen J. Langton of England before its sale in the late 1970s to Nicholas Harley in London. In 2000, it was sold by an enthusiast in Oklahoma to the Wiseman Collection, where it has remained ever since.

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=199181

According to copy on the 1/16 Revell kit, "Royce equipped this car with a massive V-12 engine, taking it directly from the company's successful airplane engines."

Edited January 24, 2015 by sjordan2

[LDO]

I have read that the Merlin in the Airfix 1/24 P-51D/K is more detailed than Trumpeter's much newer version.

Tamiya's 1/32 P-51D has gotten great reviews. Its engine looks great, but the price is pretty steep. About $170 in hobby shops. I have one of those Merlins, but I got it from a guy who built the plane without it.

TDR offer a 3-D printed Allison in 1/8, but it is $282.50, IIRC. Quad Al would be wild in 1/8, but I wouldn't want to pay for it.

Jim Lytle, builder of Big Al, the Isetta, and Quad Al, also built a White 3000 truck powered by an Allison. Its engine was exposed, behind the cab. That could be done fairly easily in 1/24 or 1/32. Maybe even 1/48. I believe Revell did a fuel truck in 1/48 with a White tractor.

[Art Anderson]

  On 1/24/2015 at 5:32 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

How can this be, when the Merlin started life as a 27 liter SOHC engine (2 cams, one per cylinder bank), and the unit in the Phantom III was only around 7 liters, with a pushrod valvetrain, single cam-in-block ?

Not to mention that Phantom III came into being before the Merlin.

Art

[FordRodnKustom]

[Ace-Garageguy]

I wonder if it had a backup-beeper.

[sjordan2]

Royce did the basic engineering for the V-12, ready when he died in 1933. The first aircraft use was in 1936.

The Rolls Phantom III, produced from 1936-1939, used a variant of the design in its protoypes, code name Spectre.

All sources, including the original Phantom III sales brochure, say the car's powerplant was based on the V-12 technology developed for aircraft and marine use. To me, that's related to this topic.

Edited January 24, 2015 by sjordan2

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 1/24/2015 at 9:33 PM, sjordan2 said:

Royce did the basic engineering for the V-12, ready when he died in 1933. The first aircraft use was in 1936.

The Rolls Phantom III, produced from 1936-1939, used a variant of the design in its protoypes, code name Spectre.

That may very well be, but it would be quite unusual to think of a 7 liter pushrod engine as a variant of a 27 liter SOHC engine. There also appear to be other significant differences between the designs, one major one being that the Phantom engine had a one-piece block while the Merlin's was two-piece, split on the horizontal crankshaft centerline. These sound like very different engines indeed, though both are V12s with wet cast-iron cylinder liners.

It may be accurate to say the Phantom III engine was a scaled-down and entirely reworked design very loosely based on the Merlin.

Do you have sources? I'm not being argumentative...I'd just like to know the whole story here.

[PatW]

I've been looking for sometime at aerosans, vehicles for crossing ice or snow with small four cylinder or radial aero engines with a propeller for forward thrust.....................

The Russians have been prime movers in building these since the 1920's onwards.

This is a model of one used during the second World War used on the Russian Front................

Edited January 24, 2015 by PatW

[gbdolfans]

The first time I went to a drag race,I was 15.So that would be in 1967.It was a match race between Terry's Seaton Super Shaker and a car with an Allison in it.Can't remember the name.The Allison car did a burnout and it dug a groove in the track.I could not race that night.This happened at the now gone Miami-Hollywood Speedway Park.I would love to see if anyone can name the car.

[sjordan2]

  On 1/24/2015 at 9:59 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

That may very well be, but it would be quite unusual to think of a 7 liter pushrod engine as a variant of a 27 liter SOHC engine. There also appear to be other significant differences between the designs, one major one being that the Phantom engine had a one-piece block while the Merlin's was two-piece, split on the horizontal crankshaft centerline. These sound like very different engines indeed, though both are V12s with wet cast-iron cylinder liners.

It may be accurate to say the Phantom III engine was a scaled-down and entirely reworked design very loosely based on the Merlin.

Do you have sources? I'm not being argumentative...I'd just like to know the whole story here.

I have provided my sources. Some of them come from Wikipedia, others from the original sales brochure and the Phantom II / III book by Whitaker and Stuckey. I think I've submitted plenty of text here from these sources. If you want to say NO, it's not an actual, pur sang Merlin engine, you may be right, but it's definitely a direct descendant based on that technology and nothing Rolls had ever done. You may be able to list a zillion exceptions just to prove your argument, but most auto technology is evolutionary. Edited January 24, 2015 by sjordan2

[jbwelda]

could i ask a question and pardon me if its already been mentioned in this thread but when you say:

"a 27 liter SOHC engine (2 cams, one per cylinder bank),"

you literally mean a twenty seven litre (like REALLY HUGE) engine? just wanted to make sure as that's pretty darn huge, like 1500 to 2000 cubic inches (offhand and undoubtedly way off calculation)?

and this "SOHC" part...to me that has always meant single over head camshaft, but what you are describing sounds to me like a DOHC: dual over head camshaft. is this something unique to aeronautic nomenclature, the camshaft for one bank of cylinders defining the difference?

jb