Fiat/Chrysler won't build cars in the US anymore

[Mike999]

IIRC, those are built for the Middle Eastern Market, all we get here are the stamped steel parts to convert the 4dr Wranglers into their 2dr Pickup J8 built for Military use.

Sounds right. The new Jeeps I saw in Egypt were all the smaller version. I think it was the one sold as the "Liberty" in the U.S. at the time. The older, bigger Jeep Cherokees were still very popular as staff cars for high-ranking Egyptian military officers. Usually tricked out with curtains in the interior, big bull-bars on the front and other custom touches.

For lower-ranking officers, the most popular staff car was the Lada Niva - the little Lada SUV.  One day I saw an officer heading toward his Niva, and noticed his enlisted-man driver fiddling around under the dash. Looked closer and the Niva didn't have a key - the driver was hot-wiring it to start it up. I sorta wondered about that...

[Richard Bartrop]

It is good for Canada, and it's not like a lot of what's considered "American Iron" isn't already being built there.

[blunc]

I say it's bad for the USA.

While other jobs are getting created in other countries, the USA is losing more of it's industry.

I wonder if anyone in the USA (who might actually care about American workers) has calculated the tipping point where the USA will become only a "service industry" rather than a manufacturing industry.

Five years ago while I was observing the decline of my then current employer, I watched message boards at one of the companies asian plants, I was amazed at the nepotism, favoritism and the fact that the plant manager had to shut the message board down after he was called foul names in a forum which could be considered a company record. Rumors of workers leaving their jobs to work anywhere else for a penny more an hour...

 

[Tom Geiger]

The Fiats don't sell in the U.S. so Marchionne is taking his ball and going home!!

Fiat - Fix It Again Tony. 

The Fiats are selling just fine and the quality is good as any modern car.  My daughter bought a Fiat 500 convertible new three years ago.  The dealer network was sparse so she had to come from NJ to PA near my house where there is a dealer.  The car has better than 60,000 miles on it and has never been back to the dealer. No issues, no problems. Only routine maintenance.  She loves the car.

[MrObsessive]

Fiat, or anyone else for that matter cannot afford to make "bad" cars in this day and age. Of course, every car will have its little faults and issues, but the Fiat of today is nothing like what it was back in the early '80's when they were practically chased out of the country.

I like 'em as far as it goes------------just waaaaay too small for me!

[MeatMan]

 

The Fiats are selling just fine and the quality is good as any modern car.  My daughter bought a Fiat 500 convertible new three years ago.  The dealer network was sparse so she had to come from NJ to PA near my house where there is a dealer.  The car has better than 60,000 miles on it and has never been back to the dealer. No issues, no problems. Only routine maintenance.  She loves the car.

Just quoting what I recently read in Businessweek! They are not selling just fine.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Jeez. Everybody loves to bash poor old Fiat.

First off, there was nothing inherently WRONG with the old Fiats. They kept Europe moving just fine for decades, thank you.

The PROBLEM is that, being tiny little somewhat overstressed things, they DID require more routine maintenance than Americans used to big ol' slow revving V8 and L6 engines that would go for 100,000 miles on one oil change would pony up for. The upkeep got ignored over here, the cars failed. Easy correlation, eh? (I've owned many Fiats over the years. All ran fine and always got me there if I took reasonable care of them).

Fiat's bad rap over here (really unfairly earned and due to poor maintenance, plain and simple) is probably still dogging them and trashing sales, as so many people just love to keep dumping on them.

Fiats of many styles were SCCA national class champions for years, with significant strings of wins from the 1950s through the late 1970s. "Bad cars" don't win that many races. Period.

http://www.velocetoday.com/the-racing-fiats-tiremarks-on-america-piii/

 

 

[sjordan2]

Earlier this year, Consumer Reports rated the Fiat 500L the least reliable subcompact car sold in America.

Edited July 31, 2016 by sjordan2

[Ace-Garageguy]

The real problem isn't that a foreign-owned Chrysler may not be building cars in the US.

The real disgrace is that American "business" has elected to sell-off American institutions like Chrysler and Continental (aircraft engines) in a fast-buck, no-effort strategy to de-industrialize the US and turn us into a third-world country dependent on others for what WE need.

Ford building a billion-dollar plus plant in Mexico is just another cut-the-balls-off-of-America move by bean counters.

I wonder what Henry would think of that idea. He was the guy, by the way, who was ridiculed by the financial and business "experts" of the time when he instituted the $5 work day for most of his production employees. Everyone called him crazy, yet that one move had a lasting effect on creating a comfortable middle class in this country. Rather than trying to squeeze every last nickel out of every worker (as in...getting Mexicans who work a lot cheaper in Mexico to build the damm cars), he thought it might be nice if the people who worked building the cars could aspire to actually BUY one of what they made. What a concept.

 

Edited July 31, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rob Hall]

Earlier this year, Consumer Reports rated the Fiat 500 sedan the least reliable car sold in America.

When my sister was car shopping last year, I went with her and test drove the 500 and 500L...she wasn't impressed by the Consumer Reports reviews, ended up getting a Chevy Trax.  She's happy with it, though I think Fiats had more interesting interior designs.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Rob Hall

[Ace-Garageguy]

Earlier this year, Consumer Reports rated the Fiat 500 sedan the least reliable car sold in America.

You believe everything Consumer Reports says? They have their fair share of "expert" idiots.

What systems were reported on, specifically? How was "reliability" data compiled? What is the frequency of failures compared to all the other makes available here? 

Incomplete information is as useful as NO information, and can be much more damaging when everyone who reads a negative article written by a fool becomes an instant authority.

[Tom Geiger]

Just quoting what I recently read in Businessweek! They are not selling just fine.

Against whose measure?  I always liked the articles that said "in the first year, Mustang outsold Barracuda three to one."   Why?  Because Ford had more manufacturing capacity than Chrysler, and Chrysler beat their sales targets.   There was a waiting list for the new Barracuda in 1964.  Screwed up history interpreted by modern guys who look only at sales figures without knowing the market of the day.

So Businessweek, not known for it's car sense reports what?  

Here's real numbers for the year 2015:

21,773 2-door Mini hardtops and convertibles sold so far this year in America.

Fiat  500 including the 2-door/convertible total with 23,583.

That's head on competitors.  Both designs are getting old so we'll see what the future holds.

 

You believe everything Consumer Reports says? They have their fair share of "expert" idiots.

What systems were reported on, specifically? How was "reliability" data compiled? What is the frequency of failures compared to all the other makes available here? 

Incomplete information is as useful as NO information, and can be much more damaging when everyone who reads a negative article written by a fool becomes an instant authority.

I've never been a fan of Consumer Reports. Sheeple take what they say as gospel.  American Cars Bad -   Honda good.  

[Mark]

Against whose measure?  I always liked the articles that said "in the first year, Mustang outsold Barracuda three to one."   Why?  Because Ford had more manufacturing capacity than Chrysler, and Chrysler beat their sales targets.   There was a waiting list for the new Barracuda in 1964.  Screwed up history interpreted by modern guys who look only at sales figures without knowing the market of the day.

So Businessweek, not known for it's car sense reports what?  

Here's real numbers for the year 2015:

21,773 2-door Mini hardtops and convertibles sold so far this year in America.

Fiat  500 including the 2-door/convertible total with 23,583.

That's head on competitors.  Both designs are getting old so we'll see what the future holds.

 

 

The Mini isn't a good comparison.  It's an old design, and a combination of British "reliability" and BMW parts/service prices.  Even the Mini fanboys know better than to buy them, they lease them and move on to the next "boutique" edition before the "reliability" kicks in.  The Business Week numbers are for the year 2015.  How far into the year were those reported numbers?

[Rob Hall]

The Mini isn't a good comparison.  It's an old design, and a combination of British "reliability" and BMW parts/service prices.  Even the Mini fanboys know better than to buy them, they lease them and move on to the next "boutique" edition before the "reliability" kicks in.  The Business Week numbers are for the year 2015.  How far into the year were those reported numbers?

Actually, the Mini was just redesigned for the 2014 model year, so it's newer than the 500 which dates to 2007.

[Longbox55]

The vast majority of Subaru's sold in the US are built in my hometown, Lafayette IN (and the plant was just doubled in size too--4,000 workers there).  

Art

Yup. I have a good friend that works there.

[sjordan2]

Anyone who doubts the integrity of Consumer Reports is invited to Google their methodology and their reviews.

Edited July 31, 2016 by sjordan2

[Ace-Garageguy]

Anyone who doubts the integrity of Consumer Reports is invited to Google their methodology and their reviews.

Watched the Fiat 500 video "road test" and just couldn't take it anymore when the "tester" started whining about having to use the shifter on the manual gearbox version to keep up speed while climbing hills. Duh. Guess he isn't enough of a "car guy" to realize the auto-box version does the same thing for you. Please mister, go back to reviewing Tupperware.

Also complains that the fuel figures aren't as good as you'd expect in a little car. Well fellas, when you make something the size of a tuna can that has to comply with US crash standards, it gets stupid heavy for what it is...and there goes the fuel economy.

You CAN'T get the detailed reliability info without logging in, and that requires subscribing...which requires sending money.

Nope.

Over the years, I've seen SO much DRIVEL written by supposed "experts" that I take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt, anyway.

One of my favorites was from Car and Driver (whose opinions I'd trust WAY before I'd be swayed by anything Consumer Reports had to say) who described the suspension system in the then-new Nissan 300ZX as "various rods and levers". Wow. Technical understanding and accuracy at its finest.

But to try to be fair, I'll look more into Consumer Reports methodology and the technical qualifications of their car reviewers. But collecting consumer complaints on dishwashers and pantyhose hardly puts a publication in a make-or-break credibility position when reviewing automobiles.

 

[SfanGoch]

But collecting consumer complaints on dishwashers and pantyhose hardly puts a publication in a make-or-break credibility position when reviewing automobiles.

Pantyhose make a great emergency alternator/fan belt.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

Pantyhose make a great emergency alternator/fan belt.  

It's great for tying up bothersome passengers in difficult situations, too.

[Richard Bartrop]

The real problem isn't that a foreign-owned Chrysler may not be building cars in the US.

The real disgrace is that American "business" has elected to sell-off American institutions like Chrysler and Continental (aircraft engines) in a fast-buck, no-effort strategy to de-industrialize the US and turn us into a third-world country dependent on others for what WE need.

Ford building a billion-dollar plus plant in Mexico is just another cut-the-balls-off-of-America move by bean counters.

I wonder what Henry would think of that idea. He was the guy, by the way, who was ridiculed by the financial and business "experts" of the time when he instituted the $5 work day for most of his production employees. Everyone called him crazy, yet that one move had a lasting effect on creating a comfortable middle class in this country. Rather than trying to squeeze every last nickel out of every worker (as in...getting Mexicans who work a lot cheaper in Mexico to build the damm cars), he thought it might be nice if the people who worked building the cars could aspire to actually BUY one of what they made. What a concept.

 

THe $5 work day was as much about reducing turnover in his plants as it was any love of the working man.   Ford built factories all over the world, including the Soviet Union.   So if he saw a way to build cars cheaper without having to deal with unions, I suspect he would think it's a great idea.

But yes, moving manufacturing out of the US is very bad for the country. 

[Tom Geiger]

The Mini isn't a good comparison.  It's an old design, and a combination of British "reliability" and BMW parts/service prices.  Even the Mini fanboys know better than to buy them, they lease them and move on to the next "boutique" edition before the "reliability" kicks in.  The Business Week numbers are for the year 2015.  How far into the year were those reported numbers?

Mini VS Fiat 500 is a good comparison since they are competitors.  No matter how old the design, they are cars people test against each other before buying a car this size.  In fact in Downingtown, PA  here you could walk between the Mini and Fiat dealers so we drove both on the same day. My daughter fell in love with the pearl white top of the line 500 convertible and bought it more on feeling than a rational point by point comparison. I think most people buying in this segment do.

As per reliability, as I said earlier in this thread this car has over 60,000 New Jersey stop and go commuter miles on it and has never been to the dealer.  Only routine maintenance done at my friend's garage.

And about those Consumer Reports reliability reports... these are reports by their customers,  who are mostly non car appliance type people. Like my wife's brother.  Years ago he had a Dodge Caravan.  I was at this house and we jumped into it for a beer run.  Right away I could hear the left front wheel bearing throbbing away.  I told him that it needed to be looked at, and he shrugged his shoulders,  "It's been doing that for a long time".   About a year later he's in the fast lane on the NJ Turnpike when the thing let loose.  He went flying into the shoulder and was fortunate he didn't hit anything or kill someone.   

And he will forever tell you a Dodge Caravan is a bad vehicle because one tried to kill him!

[Tom Geiger]

THe $5 work day was as much about reducing turnover in his plants as it was any love of the working man.  

No it was more the way Bill explained.  Henry realized if he wanted to sell a lot of cars, there had to be a large consumer base that could afford to buy them.  Henry was obsessed with social engineering and preached morals to is workers. Probably a bit too much.

Once they created the $5 work day, it was discovered that it actually cost less than the previous lower pay.  Employee turnover was greatly reduced, resulting in lower costs of recruiting and training people, along with the learning curve of the workers to full productivity.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

...Once they created the $5 work day, it was discovered that it actually cost less than the previous lower pay.  Employee turnover was greatly reduced, resulting in lower costs of recruiting and training people, along with the learning curve of the workers to full productivity.  

Which also went a long way towards insuring the quality of the finished product. A well-trained, stable work force who feel they're being adequately paid and can live in relative comfort do a better job in general. Unfortunately, the unions eventually priced their workers right out of the market, but that's another story.

Detroit as the symbol of the American automobile industry and the city itself have been systematically killed, gutted and left to rot by decades of mismanagement, short-sighted stupidity, and corruption...by just about everyone who could get a finger in the pie.

[Art Anderson]

No it was more the way Bill explained.  Henry realized if he wanted to sell a lot of cars, there had to be a large consumer base that could afford to buy them.  Henry was obsessed with social engineering and preached morals to is workers. Probably a bit too much.

Once they created the $5 work day, it was discovered that it actually cost less than the previous lower pay.  Employee turnover was greatly reduced, resulting in lower costs of recruiting and training people, along with the learning curve of the workers to full productivity.  

Actually, it was Henry Ford's desire to reduce the simply awful turnover rate at Ford.   The $5 day did do that--pretty well documented BTW.  It did have the additional benefit of being the start of the movement of factory workers into the middle class, income-wise as well.

[Dave Ambrose]

Fiat, or anyone else for that matter cannot afford to make "bad" cars in this day and age. Of course, every car will have its little faults and issues, but the Fiat of today is nothing like what it was back in the early '80's when they were practically chased out of the country.

I like 'em as far as it goes------------just waaaaay too small for me!

I bought a '78 FIAT 131. It was my first ever new car. Aside from the dealer cross threading a spark plug at its 1000 mile inspection, it needed only routine maintenance for the next 10 years, and 131K miles. They were actually good cars, but suffered from incompetent mechanics and indifferent dealerships.