Foiling issue

[bh1701]

I have been using Bare Metal foil on my last 2 models. I have noticed an issue and wonder if anyone can help me figure out what I am doing wrong.

Both kits were done with Tamiya spray paints ( a couple of coats of gray primer, a mist coat of body color and then 3 wet coats of body color, and 3 wet coats of clear). I did polish the kits before foiling. I am using a new #11 blade with each kit. The foil is applied, pushed down using my fingertip, and the edges are burnished using a toothpick prior to trimming,

I have noticed that when I pull the excess foil off that sometimes there will be spots where I can see a fine line next to the trim where the original white body color (or maybe the primer) is showing.

My thoughts are that I am burnishing too strongly, using too much pressure when cutting (although I feel like I am just dragging the blade lightly along the edges), or that Tamiya paint is just really thin (I like Tamiya for the range of colors and the smooth finish you can achieve, but have always felt that it can be easily chipped).

Suggestions?

Also wondering if there is a better clear coat (spray can variety) to use over Tamiya spray paint that creates a thicker and harder clear shell over the body color?

Appreciate your help!

Bart

[Fat Brian]

Yeah, it's possible you're getting through the finish somehow. Try using a Q-tip to burnish the foil down and when you cut it you only need a little more pressure than the weight of the knife. Try it one a spare body until you get the feel of it.

[Tom Geiger]

I agree with Brian. You don’t need any more pressure than if you were tracing the line with a pencil. Practice on a scrap body, as to how little pressure you can apply and still be able to pull the foil away 

[Plowboy]

Sounds like you're using too much pressure when you're trimming your foil. It takes very little to cut it. You basically want to slide your blade tip along the trim to cut. It's something that takes practice that you only get by doing it. Trust me. You will get better with each model. No one started out as a pro. We all had to learn.

Personally, I don't think there's a better clear coat than Tamiya straight from the can. Especially over Tamiya paint. If you're spraying three coats, that's about as much as you want. However, if you want it thicker, all you have to do is spray an additional coat.

[espo]

From your description it sounds like you're doing everything right. My only addition to what everyone else is saying is to look at the carrier for the Bare Metal Foil after you have removed a strip of foil. What sort of mark are you leaving on the paper. Is the mark faint or like you're cutting masking tape ? This might give you an idea how much pressure you're using. One additional note and not having to do with the cutting. Next time your getting supplies pickup some of the Tamiya Qtips. They have two sizes and either would work, I use the larger ones. Using these for burnishing your foil will let you work the foil into the finest of trim detail and less chance of tearing the foil. 

[NOBLNG]

I agree, these are great for burnishing foil. Also, hold the hobby knife at as shallow an angle as possible...less chance of ripping the foil and less pressure required.

Edited October 16, 2020 by NOBLNG

[bh1701]

Thanks for everyone's ideas.  I'll be heading out today to get some of the Tamiya Cotton Swabs that were suggested, and I will continue to work on applying as little pressure as needed from the blade!

Bart

[smellyfatdude]

I used to have much the same issue, and yes some paints are indeed more prone to chipping. Especially on builds that didn't get clear coated. So, this became my method. After pushing the foil down with my finger, I take a q-tip moistened slightly between my lips, and push the foil down some more with that first. Then I use the wide end of two flat toothpicks, a blunt one and a fine one. The blunt one on the left is one I picked out of the box 'cause it has a nicely rounded end and was just the right thickness. The fine one on the right has been trimmed with an xacto, to give the one corner a bit of an angle. Viewed from the side, you can see the difference in thickness. I use the blunt one lightly along the edges of what's being foiled. Then I run the fine one over the edge, and give it a good push down. Not hard enough to crack the toothpick, but because it's wood and not metal, it has a slight "give" to it. Going slowly and patiently along that edge, several times, believe it or not it will actually cut most of the foil, and a light pass with the blade does the rest. I use two xacto knives, one for cutting the foil from the sheet and the other strictly for trimming. As noted, a light pass with just slightly more pressure than the weight of the knife should do it. When I trim the foil away,  if I notice a few places where I cut slightly wide by a hair or two I simply run the fine toothpick over the edge again, slowly and that usually trims the stragglers away.

[peteski]

Like others have said - you are probably using too much pressure while cutting the foil, and you are nicking the paint too hard.

I like using #11 scalper blades - they seem to work better than standard hobby blades.  And don't be cheap - make sure the blade you use is brand new (sharp).  If you use sharp knife blade and a metal handle, the amount of pressure needed would be as little as the weight of the handle.

Also, when peeling the unwanted foil off the body, don't peel it straight up (perpendicular to the model's surface).  Peel it by folding it back on itself (almost parallel to the model's surface). And go slowly - don't peel the foil off to fast.

[bh1701]

Here's a sample of my foiling - using the tips and suggestions mentioned here. I think it looks pretty good! I appreciate the advice!

I used a much lighter touch with the blade - and only experienced one or two places where I cut down through the paint. These were all around the rear window, especially at or near the rounded corners. A little hard to keep the blade pretty flat when you have to round a corner. I touched up these spots with some black and a very fine paint brush. But, much better results than I was getting before.

The vent windows, letters on the hood and truck were hand painted.

Thanks,

Bart

[Fat Brian]

Well done, that one will look great on the shelf. This should give you a good foundation to build on.

[BlackSheep214]

I use Q-tips and use them often. It's not uncommon I use on average up to 10 Q-tips on a single kit when working with Bare Metal Foil. Save your money on Tamiya brand Q-tips. Buy a box of ordinary Q-tips at Walmart. They last longer supply-wise and cheaper too.

Also, buy those gold bladed Z series #11 Xacto blades. Walmart has them in the Arts & Crafts department or Hobby Lobby/Micheal's. They are extremely sharp and will cut BMF with ease. 

[TransAmMike]

Does anyone looking at this thread think the newer foil is thinner and harder to work with.  Curls up when strips are cut to put in place and seems to tear off  easier if  the knife cut  is not deep enough.

[peteski]

5 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Does anyone looking at this thread think the newer foil is thinner and harder to work with.  Curls up when strips are cut to put in place and seems to tear off  easier if  the knife cut  is not deep enough.

This is the regular "chrome", not the "ultra bright" stuff?  I hope that they didn't change the formula - that would be unthinkable!  The softness and pliability of the BMF foil is what makes it so good.

[TransAmMike]

Ya know, you may have a point there Peter,  the one I have is the ultra chrome and I am comparing to the older regular chrome. Hmmm.

[peteski]

10 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Ya know, you may have a point there Peter,  the one I have is the ultra chrome and I am comparing to the older regular chrome. Hmmm.

Totally different stuff.  Ultra chrome is just thin aluminum foil. Yes, very shiny but also very stiff. Sort of like the failed Detail Master chrome foil. I think BMF started making Ultra Chrome after Detail Master came out with theirs.

BMF regular chrome uses some sort of special alloy. It can be melted with a soldering iron, so it uses some soft low-melting-temperature metal alloy.  While not as shiny, it is extremely malleable. This is the good stuff.

[TransAmMike]

So if I understand you correctly Peter, The regular chrome is better to work with than the ultra chrome??  A couple hours ago I tried foiling the chrome side trim on the '57 Chevy model and it gave me fits. I did a much better job when I used on regular chrome on a previous '57.

[TransAmMike]

According to BMF website they now sell 001 Chrome and 004 Ultra Bright Chrome.   On Ebay many  of the listings say "new and improved" .  So what the heck is the original BMF??

[Fat Brian]

51 minutes ago, TransAmMike said:

According to BMF website they now sell 001 Chrome and 004 Ultra Bright Chrome.   On Ebay many  of the listings say "new and improved" .  So what the heck is the original BMF??

The ultra bright was the stuff they problems with years ago, I've stuck to the regular chrome since. 

[TransAmMike]

Good to know, but I'm wondering how the original 001 Chrome  differs from the "New and Improved" version.  Is the new and improved actually better!!!!!!

[Fat Brian]

15 minutes ago, TransAmMike said:

Good to know, but I'm wondering how the original 001 Chrome  differs from the "New and Improved" version.  Is the new and improved actually better!!!!!!

I haven't noticed a difference in the regular Chrome, those stickers started after they took some heat for the ultra bight line.

[TransAmMike]

Got it.  Thanks Brian.  Now I gotta buy a new sheet and quit using the ultra unless maybe for small details.

[espo]

I have to agree with everyone on the "New Improved Chrome" foil. This seems to be just like the original foil to me just slightly better shine. I also tried the Ultra Foil and like everyone else it just gave me fits trying to control it and it didn't lay down as well. Might work for a perfectly flat firewall or something but not body trim. As for cutting into the paint when trimming, the hardest part has to be any type of a curve such as around windows as others have said. The hardest part for myself is keeping the proper angle of the blade and of course when you get to some intricate moldings it just gets harder to do. I think if you're getting into the paint this may have to do with the angle of the blade as the natural tendency is to use the point of the blade rather than keeping the lower angle. This can also cause a couple of other issues.  Besides the cutting into the paint it becomes easer to cut the foil on the molding  its self or wonder off onto the body.   bh1701's black '64 Ford is a great example of what can be done. 

[crazyjim]

Save some money and go to Walgreens for their makeup applicators. One end is rounded and the other pointed.  They're great for burnishing.  A long time ago friend gave me a new tool.  It's a ice cream bar stick tapered and sharpened on end while the other is a flat taper.

[TransAmMike]

Glad you commented "espo" George, now I feel better about getting the "New imoproved" version.   I hate to mess up applications. My skills may not be all that great but I know I can do a better job foiling than with this ultra chrome stuff.

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