Not happy with my new Pace paint booth performance. Suggestions?

[Straightliner59]

Here's my setup. As a renter, it needs to be temporarily permanent. Although I plan to replace the flex across the top of the window with rigid pipe, it draws wonderfully, as it is. The only time I experience any lingering paint odors is when I need to change the filter. I can  remove the installation, and return everything to normal, in five minutes, or less. It's secure, as well. If anyone would like further details about the installation, please ask!

[Plowboy]

8 hours ago, Classicgas said:

 

I don't recommend it. Fan motor right in the airflow. Asking for trouble,  it takes very little spark to ignite flammable. Maybe if you only spay water base and clean with water. 

I did it for almost fifteen years without a problem. But, I only use spray cans.

[jchrisf]

13 hours ago, Aaronw said:

Those Pace booths use the bare minimum fans and poor motor placement (top mount is the least efficient) so good ducting is critical. Bigger ducting is also worthwhile, 5" can offer double the flow of 4" and 6" can be as much as 4x the flow of 4". Many people use the 4" because it is easy to find but that is meant for a dryer which usually has a short run and is just exhausting hot air so the flow is less critical.

They do make 5" and 6" flex ducting if you need to stick to the flex style, but rigid ducting causes less restriction, so maybe you can run as much rigid as possible and then make up the difference with flex. Also avoid hard bends if possible, a hard 90 can cause as much as 4x the restriction of airflow and a gentle 90 of some distance. This is where flex hose can start to even out with rigid pipe. Flex inherently causes a loss of flow, but flex that can follow a generally straight path may be equal to or better than a rigid set up with many sharp bends. In your case with the odd angles needed using 5 or 6" with flex line at each end and a straight piece of rigid pipe in the middle may be your best option. 

Sounds like you know your stuff.  Are you saying I could use a larger hose with my 4" motor or I need to upgrade my motor?  If I can use the 5/6" with what I have how is the best way to attach it?  

I was thinking if I had bigger hoses it should allow it to escape the booth faster/easier since trying it without a hose at all worked so well.

[Classicgas]

12 hours ago, Plowboy said:

I did it for almost fifteen years without a problem. But, I only use spray cans.

Not saying its going to ignite, but it's possible, and it's not a risk I would be willing to take. My family and property are more important. I've been in the painting industry since 1986, and I've seen a few things over the years. I believe safety is #1. You all can do whatever you want, but I would never suggest a unsafe practice to someone to do in their home.

[Aaronw]

16 hours ago, jchrisf said:

Sounds like you know your stuff.  Are you saying I could use a larger hose with my 4" motor or I need to upgrade my motor?  If I can use the 5/6" with what I have how is the best way to attach it?  

I was thinking if I had bigger hoses it should allow it to escape the booth faster/easier since trying it without a hose at all worked so well.

 

I just read a lot when I built my booth. The more I read the more I found that the Pace booths are fairly marginal in choice of fan output, although this is not surprising since the blower is the most expensive part of the booth. 

Yes I would suggest trying a bigger duct, if it works it is a cheap fix, and if you end up putting a bigger fan on there you will still want a bigger duct for it, 4" is very restrictive. 

[Zippi]

I thought about getting a spray booth some time back but never did due to a lot of cons about the fans not doing a very good job.  When I was doing my research it seemed like all the standard size booths had a 25 watt fan which doesn't seem to cut the mustard.  Your fan on top of your booth looks much bigger and looks like it should do the job.  What size motor is it?  

[jchrisf]

5 hours ago, Aaronw said:

 

I just read a lot when I built my booth. The more I read the more I found that the Pace booths are fairly marginal in choice of fan output, although this is not surprising since the blower is the most expensive part of the booth. 

Yes I would suggest trying a bigger duct, if it works it is a cheap fix, and if you end up putting a bigger fan on there you will still want a bigger duct for it, 4" is very restrictive. 

Yes, it is only marginal.  I wish I would have found this one first because it has 2x the cfm and built in LEDs.. 

 

[jchrisf]

16 minutes ago, Zippi said:

I thought about getting a spray booth some time back but never did due to a lot of cons about the fans not doing a very good job.  When I was doing my research it seemed like all the standard size booths had a 25 watt fan which doesn't seem to cut the mustard.  Your fan on top of your booth looks much bigger and looks like it should do the job.  What size motor is it?  

Not sure on the motor size.  I had to get a paint booth to paint inside because the humidity here in FL was killing my clear coats.  However, I have recently hung out with a paint and body guy at his shop and he taught me how to setup airflow in my garage with fans and said that using 2K with a slow hardener would prevent the blushing.

There is no way I am spraying 2K in the house unless I have a paint booth that will really suck out fumes.  DT and Clay Kemp have a homemade paint booth that looks like it would do it.  I think they are using a 6" hydroponics fan attached to a plastic storage bin.

 

[Zen]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:38 AM, jchrisf said:

Nice setup.. is that the stock fan?  Yours looks different and more powerful.  When mine gets any paint on the filter it doesn't pull much air at all.

Stock fan that came from Pace. It will actually suck the filter in when turned on. Only thing I did to it was rotate the fan to push out the back.

[Tom Geiger]

1 hour ago, Zen said:

Stock fan that came from Pace. It will actually suck the filter in when turned on. Only thing I did to it was rotate the fan to push out the back.

Amen!  I find the set up in my Pace booth more than acceptable. I originally was concerned because I mainly use spray cans. People who actually own the booths assured me it was fine. 

Here’s the specs right from their website. The 24” units both use the same setup. The 36” unit has a 265 CFM fan.

What drives me crazy in these threads is the people who don’t own the unit and probably never even saw one in person giving disparaging advice.  

 

[Aaronw]

16 hours ago, jchrisf said:

Yes, it is only marginal.  I wish I would have found this one first because it has 2x the cfm and built in LEDs.. 

 

 Mine is 24" wide so about the same size as the pace mini but I put a 465 cfm blower on it, Pace uses a 148cfm blower. I considered one of the Pace booths, but after pricing materials I was able to build one for about 1/2 what they wanted. Mine is made from plywood so it is heavy but it lives over in its corner and doesn't need to move.  They look like a well made booth so it is a shame that they use such a small blower, it would only add another $30 to go to a 265cfm, and probably less since they would be buying in bulk. Maybe they assume people will just use an airbrush with it.

[Aaronw]

12 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

Amen!  I find the set up in my Pace booth more than acceptable. I originally was concerned because I mainly use spray cans. People who actually own the booths assured me it was fine. 

Here’s the specs right from their website. The 24” units both use the same setup. The 36” unit has a 265 CFM fan.

What drives me crazy in these threads is the people who don’t own the unit and probably never even saw one in person giving disparaging advice.  

 

 

I've found both. When I was looking for a booth, I looked hard at Pace, and very nearly bought one. I talked to quite a few people who had them on several model sites. A lot of people were happy with theirs, but I also ran across a fair number who were disappointed in its performance.

I suspect being satisfied or not largely comes down to the exhaust, the size, distance, material and how straight it is. 3 feet straight out the window probably works ok, buying a 30 foot piece of flex hose and leaving the whole 30 feet laying willy nilly between the booth and the exit, is going to result in terrible flow. Looking at recommendations for a booth the size of the pace mini (24x14" opening) ideally should have a 235cfm fan on the low end, so with only 148cfm it needs all the help it can get. Looking at your set up it appears you and the OP have a similar run but you have rigid ducting, and possibly larger ducting (5"?) vs 4" flex duct on his. 

The info on air flow, and friction loss of ducting is readily available to look up. 

[Skip]

Contact the manufacturer, tell them your concerns.  They probably have real engineering into the development of their products and can likely solve most end user issues or at the very least inform you that you are overtaxing the limits of their product.  Pace has probably invested tons of R & D into their paint booths so they’ve dealt with many scenarios that the end user could too.  I think from an engineering standpoint you are going to get a better answer from the manufacturer than you will here or anywhere else because Pace has a vested interest in their own product.

[ACR-E Doug]

I was worried about my booth when I built it a few years back, I have a cage blower the is rated at 275cfm.  I was some what happy with it but thought it should pull better than it did, so I thought about my dryer flex hose might be causing some problems.  I removed the hose and turned on the fan and holy cow it was light night and day, I took a peace of paper and held it in front of the filter and it sucked it right up tight.  I then put the hose back on and tried it again and it was like half the suction.  So I then replaced the flex hose with 5in solid ducting and what a change it maid. So you might just try and remove the hose and hold up paper and see if it helps, you will then know if your flex hose is your problem.  BTW was hose was only about 5 feet total with two 90's.

[Tom Geiger]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:39 PM, Skip said:

Contact the manufacturer, tell them your concerns.  They probably have real engineering into the development of their products and can likely solve most end user issues or at the very least inform you that you are overtaxing the limits of their product.  Pace has probably invested tons of R & D into their paint booths so they’ve dealt with many scenarios…

Bob Pace is an HVAC engineer and his company fabricated ductwork etc.  and he designed a paint booth and that business took off. 

When you look at his products they are all HVAC quality metal and fabrication.  The larger 36” booth has a larger fan, no doubt based on the face area of the filter.  Someone on one of these boards felt he wanted a stronger fan so he talked with Bob and got a bigger fan as an upgrade. 

I has inquired both with Pace and unit owners before I bought mine since I mainly use spray cans. Every said I’d be fine and I’ve been pleased. Partly because I understood how exhaust runs and bought new rigid ductwork. It exits through a louver (like a dryer) and when I go outside the exhaust pressure has them fully open. And that’s proper ventilation.  I also use the pleated filters they recommend. Pace also sells the filters. 
 
Test yours by putting in a new filter. Turn in your fan and spray some colored paint into the booth.  Is your filter now that color?  Do you not smell paint fumes? Then the booth is working!

Back when I had my home made booth I had to take it outside about once a year, take it all apart and vacuum out the ductwork, motor assembly etc. It was always caked with dried paint. I’ve had the Pace a year and opened it up.. nothing past the filter. Complete clean and I’m using spray cans.

 

[Dreamalpha]

On 7/17/2021 at 6:26 PM, Straightliner59 said:

Here's my setup. As a renter, it needs to be temporarily permanent. Although I plan to replace the flex across the top of the window with rigid pipe, it draws wonderfully, as it is. The only time I experience any lingering paint odors is when I need to change the filter. I can  remove the installation, and return everything to normal, in five minutes, or less. It's secure, as well. If anyone would like further details about the installation, please ask!

Wow this is what I need ! How you set up the foam on the window ? Thank you!!