Copycat automotive design.

[SfanGoch]

 

[Brudda]

Cool topic! Learned a lot on copy design. Did not realize so many were out there. 

[peteski]

5 hours ago, Brudda said:

Cool topic! Learned a lot on copy design. Did not realize so many were out there. 

Just look around you today and see just  how may cars/trucks/SUVs from various manufacturers look alike (sometimes  almost identical).  As it has been said in this thread several times, more often than not, those are not copycat designs, but designs dictated by the automotive design trends of the time.  A lot of it has been dictated by aerodynamics.  This is especially true after the 1980s (the soap-bar design that still continues today).  To have low drag, car bodies need have that soap-bar look.

[stitchdup]

I saw one of the 2022 hyundai ioniq 5 in the supermarket carpark today. It stood out from the other cars without having to put an ugly grille on the front. It was quite an attractive futuristic looking car and even in gray like every other car it stood out for the right reason imo. I had to go online to find out what it was when i got home. obviously this is just my opinion but its been a long time since a car stood out for looking good different or even just standing out

[tim boyd]

15 hours ago, peteski said:

Just look around you today and see just  how may cars/trucks/SUVs from various manufacturers look alike (sometimes  almost identical).  As it has been said in this thread several times, more often than not, those are not copycat designs, but designs dictated by the automotive design trends of the time.  A lot of it has been dictated by aerodynamics.  This is especially true after the 1980s (the soap-bar design that still continues today).  To have low drag, car bodies need have that soap-bar look.

To build on Pete's comments, today's designs are heavily influenced by governmental regulations, and not just in one country, either. 

One key example?  The lower front bumper "jowl forward" look that is so prominent today is a direct result of Pedestrian Impact legislation originally enacted in Europe, and later adopted by Asian countries.  Even though it is not legislated in the US, it has such a fundamental impact on the car's design and engineering that any global car manufacturer has to use it across the board, even in countries where it is not required.  This legislation required that automakers take actions to reduce the injuries to pedestrians who are hit by cars, including "knee blockers" which are design to break a leg below the knee, rather than at the knee if the impact is great enough to break bones, and add hood crush zones, which either require hoods to be raised well above the top of the engines (so that when a pedestrian hits a hood, it can crush inward before hitting the relatively immovable engine), or require hood explosive devices (at considerable extra cost) to immediately push the hood upward if there is a pedestrian impact, again creating a cushion for the wayward pedestrian.  One can debate all day long the relative societal benefits of these legislative requirements, but the reality is they are law and cars must be engineered/designed to comply.    

There are many other legislative requirements, involving safety, fuel economy, emissions et al (often one directly at cross purposes with another) that drive today's automotive design considerations.  And then there's NGO's - non-governmental organizations who publicize ever stricter requirements for whatever angle they are pushing, often to the detriment of design flexibility and individuality.   

Given all these constraints, it is a minor miracle that cars have the individuality they in today's world.  

Bottom line?  If you want to bemoan car design, the very first place to look is not the designers or car makers, is it the people we elect, the government bureaucrats they enable, and the NGO's and their political agendas that have the biggest impact.  Understandably, not what you wanted to hear, but this is the reality today, folks.  TIM 

[keyser]

@tim boyd Agree.
I am not huge fan of huge grilles and squinty HL though. Grille takes a parking lot tap or traffic tap first. Nice headlights out of way, but not all stylish hl are good hl. 
BMW’s need to put huge grilles on everything, even their electrics, is dumb. 
Upside, I always did like the Olds waterfall grilles, so they can use the hood when they run out of room. 🤔🤣

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, tim boyd said:

To build on Pete's comments, today's designs are heavily influenced by governmental regulations, and not just in one country, either...

...One can debate all day long the relative societal benefits of these legislative requirements, but the reality is they are law and cars must be engineered/designed to comply.    

There are many other legislative requirements, involving safety, fuel economy, emissions et al (often one directly at cross purposes with another) that drive today's automotive design considerations.  And then there's NGO's - non-governmental organizations who publicize ever stricter requirements for whatever angle they are pushing, often to the detriment of design flexibility and individuality.   

Given all these constraints, it is a minor miracle that cars have the individuality they in today's world.  

Bottom line?  If you want to bemoan car design, the very first place to look is not the designers or car makers, is it the people we elect, the government bureaucrats they enable, and the NGO's and their political agendas that have the biggest impact.  Understandably, not what you wanted to hear, but this is the reality today, folks.  TIM 

Exactly, and I'd like to respond in depth to these thoughts, but anything I would say would certainly go way beyond the bounds of oblique references to "politics".

As an aside, I do think it's rather ironic how the more enlightened motoring press of the late '60s and '70s tended to bemoan Detroit's styling tendencies embracing "tortured sheet-metal" and useless ornamentation, when today, those are about all that visually differentiate one brand from another.

[SfanGoch]

Chalk it up to the Lemming Effect, Bill.

[Reegs]

"... or require hood explosive devices (at considerable extra cost) to immediately push the hood upward if there is a pedestrian impact, again creating a cushion for the wayward pedestrian."

Like the reactive armor on a tank?

[espo]

A little off subject but. Why are the rules governing exterior vehicle body shapes and designs not to mention numerus operating functions on new cars to compensate for drivers' inability to safely operate their motor vehicle, but nothing is being done to make the operator more aware of their responsibility as a driver? 

[keyser]

Because stupid? Beauty only skin deep, but dumb goes clear to the bone. 
Even with autonomous/semiautonomous cars, people nap, whatever else. Ever seen anyone pulled over for inattention? 🤦🏻‍♂️

[JollySipper]

48 minutes ago, espo said:

nothing is being done to make the operator more aware of their responsibility as a driver?

I read in a magazine column some time back that driving instructors no longer teach kids how to avoid an accident....... They just tell them to drop their arms and wait for impact. I guess the airbags and such are more responsible for driver safety than the drivers themselves.....

[Joe Handley]

8 hours ago, espo said:

A little off subject but. Why are the rules governing exterior vehicle body shapes and designs not to mention numerus operating functions on new cars to compensate for drivers' inability to safely operate their motor vehicle, but nothing is being done to make the operator more aware of their responsibility as a driver? 

Probably easier to legislate safety  at the vehicle level than at the driver level, it’s one thing to train kids how to be better drivers (and should be demanded by parents and NGOs) but when it comes to existing drivers, autonomous cars will likely be here before that happens and be more effective at making roads safer on that front.

[Joe Handley]

9 hours ago, Reegs said:

"... or require hood explosive devices (at considerable extra cost) to immediately push the hood upward if there is a pedestrian impact, again creating a cushion for the wayward pedestrian."

Like the reactive armor on a tank?

This should explain it nicely 

Though I’d be ok if this was used in this manner on adults, but like the crossing arm on a bus for kids.

 

[stitchdup]

9 hours ago, espo said:

A little off subject but. Why are the rules governing exterior vehicle body shapes and designs not to mention numerus operating functions on new cars to compensate for drivers' inability to safely operate their motor vehicle, but nothing is being done to make the operator more aware of their responsibility as a driver? 

Its not so much about driver ability, how many times have you seen some idiot pedestrian paying more attention to their phone than surroundings end up one or two steps away from a darwin award. it doesn't matter how good a driver you are if someone steps out a couple of feet in front of you

[Oldcarfan27]

Maybe they should put airbags on the OUTSIDE of the car, along with padding on all the street curbs to prevent negligent pedestrian injury. 

Honestly, I see more and more people crossing streets at any place they feel like, anyplace but actual crosswalks. 

Like Les said, it's not all driver error. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

7 minutes ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

Maybe they should put airbags on the OUTSIDE of the car...

[espo]

23 hours ago, JollySipper said:

I read in a magazine column some time back that driving instructors no longer teach kids how to avoid an accident....... They just tell them to drop their arms and wait for impact. I guess the airbags and such are more responsible for driver safety than the drivers themselves.....

Taking your hand off the steering wheel while trying to avoid an accident? There used to be an old saying for that, "The bind leading the blind" or "Monkey see monkey do".  

[espo]

15 hours ago, Joe Handley said:

Probably easier to legislate safety  at the vehicle level than at the driver level, it’s one thing to train kids how to be better drivers (and should be demanded by parents and NGOs) but when it comes to existing drivers, autonomous cars will likely be here before that happens and be more effective at making roads safer on that front.

A lot of the bad and even dangerous drivers I see in our area aren't the young so much as the middle aged drivers.  Unfortunately their teen age children are observing their driving and start to think that is normal. This sort of driving perpetuates it's self.

[espo]

14 hours ago, stitchdup said:

Its not so much about driver ability, how many times have you seen some idiot pedestrian paying more attention to their phone than surroundings end up one or two steps away from a darwin award. it doesn't matter how good a driver you are if someone steps out a couple of feet in front of you

Around here you don't dare step out into the cross walk unless you have made eye contact with the on coming cars driver. Even then there is no guarantee that they are going to allow you to use the cross walk. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

24 minutes ago, espo said:

Around here you don't dare step out into the cross walk unless you have made eye contact with the on coming cars driver. Even then there is no guarantee that they are going to allow you to use the cross walk. 

Lotta the opposite around here. Entitled pedestrians just step out in traffic anydammwhere, expecting drivers to slam on their brakes to accommodate their whims. Guess their mommas never taught them to look both ways before crossing the street, or to cross at crosswalks if they're designated...and to wait for the lights.

[espo]

Just now, Ace-Garageguy said:

Lotta the opposite around here. Entitled pedestrians just step out in traffic anydammwhere, expecting drivers to slam on their brakes to accommodate their whims. Guess their mommas never taught them to look both ways before crossing the street, or to cross at crosswalks if they're designated...and to wait for the lights.

Sometimes called cleansing of the gene pool. 

[keyser]

First thing I taught kids was max braking. Early.  And steering while looking where you want to go. Minimize impact with glancing blow, and accordion braking, leaving exit room. Gas pedal last thing to learn, and wfo so they know how it feels when needed. 
Sedan looks like a Luigi Colani effort. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

I'm justa yearnin' for a rig like this...

[espo]

5 minutes ago, keyser said:

First thing I taught kids was max braking. Early.  And steering while looking where you want to go. Minimize impact with glancing blow, and accordion braking, leaving exit room. Gas pedal last thing to learn, and wfo so they know how it feels when needed. 
Sedan looks like a Luigi Colani effort. 

Sounds like your children will have a fighting chance to make you a grandfather someday. Far too few have the basic knowledge of vehicle dynamics that you have described.