A small rant.

[Straightliner59]

Again,  few ads is a small price to pay for the benefits gained from the information and interaction, here. There are tradeoffs, everywhere. "You don't get something for nothing." 

[ctruss53]

19 hours ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

I didn't say you can't complain, go for it. I'm sure you wouldn't mind that ad revenue in your pocket though. 

I said you can't complain.

There are free tools to avoid ads. If you choose to not use those tools, like the original poster, then you can't complain about seeing ads. You (they) are choosing to see them.

[Bugatti Fan]

This thread is starting to go around in circles now that arguments for and against pop ups have been made.

I think respective points of view have been aired enough now, and it is down to individual choice.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Bugatti Fan

[Xingu]

We don't force people to use or not to use ad blockers, it is a personal choice. Unlike what Chad thinks, the ad revenue is enough to help keep this site free. Please keep in mind that there is also a point where it isn't fiscally possible to continue to provide a service for free. Gregg (and others) have given a lot of time and money to keep the magazine and this site going, scrolling past a few ads isn't that bad. We let folks post when the ads get out of hand and start covering content (which is out of our control) and Dave does his best to reign them back in.

 

[Tom Geiger]

I have left the ads visible because the income is important to the site. 

Just remember there are folks you could feed free steak dinners, and they’d complain about it!
 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Tom Geiger said:

I have left the ads visible because the income is important to the site. 

Why don't you just send 'em $20?

There are several online providers of information I support with a monthly fee because "the income is important to the site", and I value what I receive from them enough to pay for it.

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tom Geiger]

12 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Why don't you just send 'em $20?

There are several online providers of information I support with a monthly fee because "the income is important to the site", and I value what I receive from them enough to pay for it.

 

Because they decline to accept payment!  I have voted with my wallet.  I am a magazine subscriber, unlike a lot of the complainers.

[Ace-Garageguy]

10 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

Because they decline to accept payment!  I have voted with my wallet.  I am a magazine subscriber, unlike a lot of the complainers.

I would suggest that management crunch a few easy numbers, work out how many $$ per member the ad revenue generates, and then establish a VOLUNTARY payment scheme so those of us who despise intrusive advertising and run adblockers can pay to play, without feeling guilty...at least those of us who have a functioning conscience.

Perhaps interestingly, the Photobucket debacle didn't affect me much at all, as after I started running an adblocker there, I also began paying for the service. It was only the freeloaders who lost their photos, or had them "ransomed".

What's kindof a shame is the number of people who seem to believe they're somehow entitled to free anything.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tabbysdaddy]

21 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Whet's kindof a shame is the number of people who seem to believe they're somehow entitled to free anything.

Unless there's some new tax I missed then I'm still entitled to free air to breathe.

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

Unless there's some new tax I missed then I'm still entitled to free air to breathe.

OK. I should have said "entitled to what somebody else's effort produced".

[iamsuperdan]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I would suggest that management crunch a few easy numbers, work out how many $$ per member the ad revenue generates, and then establish a VOLUNTARY payment scheme so those of us who despise intrusive advertising and run adblockers can pay to play, without feeling guilty...at least those of us who have a functioning conscience.

Perhaps interestingly, the Photobucket debacle didn't affect me much at all, as after I started running an adblocker there, I also began paying for the service. It was only the freeloaders who lost their photos, or had them "ransomed".

Whet's kind of a shame is the number of people who seem to believe they're somehow entitled to free anything.

 

In our weekly staff meetings, this has come up many times. And there are some definite benefits to having payment options available.

And what would it look like? Just a donation, like a charity? A one time thing, or monthly, like a Patreon or something? Would people get anything for their contribution? Would there be a normal, free membership like we all have now and then a premier membership that unlocks content or allows other things? How any levels of membership do we want? Etc.

And on the negative side, would people that contribute monetarily expect to be involved in how things are run? Would it turn into a class system? Where the people who pay feel they're better than the non-payers? Paying for the blue checkmark, so to speak, seems like a bad idea for the site.

 

But ultimately, regardless of the many pros and many cons, at this time we simply do not WANT to charge anyone for content or the use of the site. Models and supplies can get expensive, and with many of the users of the site/forum being older and on fixed incomes, we just don't want to go there. 

Will that change at some point in the future? Will we eventually get to the point where we need to charge in some way?

Possibly, maybe. But for now and the foreseeable future, the site and forum will be free to all users.

 

 

 

[ctruss53]

I would gladly pay a small annual fee to use a service, ad free.  I contibute annually to Wikipedia for just this reason.

However I see a big problem with asking people to pay to use a forum dedicated to scale modeling.....

The problem is a large portion of scale modelers seem to lack the understanding that things cost money. And that because of inflation things cost more and more every passing year. This is most noticable in all the pissing and moaning I see about how "expensive" model kits are these days. I have heard more times than I care to count, the stories about how models only used to cost a dollar.

Good luck getting all those people to pay anything to use this forum.

 

When you are ready and willing to accept annual donations, let me know. I'll gladly contribute.

[Bugatti Fan]

Guys, I think we all understand that things cost money.

However, some have much more in the way.of disposable income than others, and the cost of regular necessities like utilities, food, clothes, running a car have risen sharply. Whilst some can afford to buy MFH kits for example do not feel the effects so much, one has to remember that others have to watch the pennies and struggle to afford an inexpensive kit or two occasionally yet still enjoy our shared hobby.

I would not like this forum to go the way to becoming a two tier system where only paying subscribers who can afford it have access to all features and others who cannot afford it do not, creating an 'US and THEM' environment. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Bugatti Fan

[Tom Geiger]

14 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

And on the negative side, would people that contribute monetarily expect to be involved in how things are run? Would it turn into a class system? Where the people who pay feel they're better than the non-payers? Paying for the blue checkmark, so to speak, seems like a bad idea for the site.

 

But ultimately, regardless of the many pros and many cons, at this time we simply do not WANT to charge anyone for content or the use of the site. 

Bingo! This was the same response I got when I suggested charging a while back.

Last year a similar site for stamp collectors decided to charge a membership fee. They lost 3/4 of the members. 

The best thing you can do to support this site is to pay for a subscription to the magazine!  

[peteski]

How about displaying ads for free members, and no ads for paid membership?  That is a popular option for many online services.

[Bugatti Fan]

I think that we are losing sight of the fact that the admin of this site is done probably by unpaid volunteers.

The programming to change it to pay and non pay would probably be a bit onerous to expect an unpaid volunteer to do and set up a payment system.

It might be a popular option for many online services, but one has to remember that they are generally large commercial operations for example like free to view TV stations charging for an ad free service.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Exactly.

[Rattlecan Dan]

Dan Clark for President!

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

I think that we are losing sight of the fact that the admin of this site is done probably by unpaid volunteers.

The programming to change it to pay and non pay would probably be a bit onerous to expect an unpaid volunteer to do and set up a payment system.

It might be a popular option for many online services, but one has to remember that they are generally large commercial operations for example like free to view TV stations charging for an ad free service.

I support several one, two, and three-man information providers with $5 to $10 monthly payments via Patreon, because their content is routinely "demonetized" by YT for various politically-correct reasons. I, and many other regular supporters, value the effort they put forth to make factual information available. We value it enough to PAY for it.

Their content is still available free on YT to non-supporters, and nobody gets their little knickers in a knot because those who choose to help the producers defray their expenses might get access to private comment sections, etc...and in some cases the supporters get NOTHING other than the feeling of doing the right thing. But of course, I'm talking about responsible adults who aren't looking for something-for-nothing.

Still, I understand it's always easier, and pretty much SOP everywhere, to belabor the "reasons" something won't work than to just DO it.

Pretty odd old world when you can't get somebody to take money for something you value, but whatever. It's not my dog.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[Bugatti Fan]

Bill, you have a perfect right to financially support whatever sites you wish as you can afford it having mentioned that you pay for certain access to several sites.

Two posts back I was pointing out that many simply don't have such disposable income to be able to do so even if they wish.

Dan Clark's post has succinctly made it clear about MCM policy about keeping the site free to use for everyone.

OK. So we have to put up with a few ads to keep it free.  I'm quite happy with that so that everyone has full access regardless of their own financial status.     Let's not become an Elysium.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bugatti Fan

[ctruss53]

The limited disposable income is a hard pill to swallow here. Many sites only ask for $5 per year.

But since some are trying to circle this back around to the original topic. Lets circle back to that.

Ads.

Ads are generated by your internet search history and browsing activity. The admins do not select the ads you see. So if you search and use the internet for topics that would not be kosher here, you are going to see ads that don't belong here.

[Xingu]

15 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

Ads are generated by your internet search history and browsing activity. The admins do not select the ads you see. So if you search and use the internet for topics that would not be kosher here, you are going to see ads that don't belong here.

Blanket statements like this are not entirely true. Some ads are directed to individuals by their search habits, but a large number are directed to the site via bot searches of this board. The bots have a field day with key words like "Models" and "Drag Racing." Luckily, we are able to head off most of the really bad ads, but occasionally the ad companies force adult content thru by using extremely generic descriptions. Every few weeks the ad companies change how they deliver some of the ads, that is how we often get ads that cover content. It is a tiresome job for Dave to continually have to tweak the settings.

[ctruss53]

17 minutes ago, Xingu said:

Blanket statements like this are not entirely true. Some ads are directed to individuals by their search habits, but a large number are directed to the site via bot searches of this board. The bots have a field day with key words like "Models" and "Drag Racing." Luckily, we are able to head off most of the really bad ads, but occasionally the ad companies force adult content thru by using extremely generic descriptions. Every few weeks the ad companies change how they deliver some of the ads, that is how we often get ads that cover content. It is a tiresome job for Dave to continually have to tweak the settings.

Fair.

But OP is complaining about political ads. What part of this forum would trigger that?

[peteski]

14 hours ago, ctruss53 said:

Fair.

But OP is complaining about political ads. What part of this forum would trigger that?

Some political stuff does sneak into the forum.  I imagine that some keywords in the following post could trigger some political ads.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/181960-yesanother-usps-rant-why/?do=findComment&comment=2738326

Edited May 31, 2023 by peteski

[Bugatti Fan]

Just a fact of life that advertising media will try anything to circumvent stumbling blocks placed in their way. Also, unrelated advertising is generated by general browsing habits looking at other stuff so don't be surprised if ads for gardening items, clothes, cameras and so on keep appearing.

I think enough has been said already on this thread before a moderator locks it as it is going nowhere now!