Avoid the reissue Revell Ramcharger

[bubbaman]

thanks  i almost bought this at H.L. about a half hour ago

[slusher]

When addressing this, it might be wise to spring a few bucks and mail the bodies both back to Revell-O-Gram. This way, they can actually see what's up.

I would suggest putting the package to the attention of both the Quality Assurance and Customer Service departments so they can both review the product.

Charlie Larkin

That is a really good idea. I bet they may even reimburse you for it. That would help them to look into faster..

[Ace-Garageguy]

Kinda makes one wonder just what the QA people are doing for their money, as it's obviously not having much impact on QA.

[slusher]

Kinda makes one wonder just what the QA people are doing for their money, as it's obviously not having much impact on QA.

Sometimes the problem is out of hand before it gets to Q.A like everyone opening their kits and finding warped bodies. Human error or problem with material...

[mikemodeler]

Kinda makes one wonder just what the QA people are doing for their money, as it's obviously not having much impact on QA.

Assuming they utilize QA methods. Could be that once a few samples have been approved, no need to check others.

 

My bigger problem with this kit is the heavy sprue attachments at the bottom edge of the body, I cannot remember seeing anything like it before.

[Joe Handley]

The sprue attachment points on the bottom of the body are more of  a relic from when the kit was first engineered than this warpage issue is and that has improved over time when new kits get released.

[MrObsessive]

Assuming they utilize QA methods. Could be that once a few samples have been approved, no need to check others.

 

My bigger problem with this kit is the heavy sprue attachments at the bottom edge of the body, I cannot remember seeing anything like it before.

I've seen them on older releases as Joe mentioned. I just take my Dremel Moto Tool and grind those suckers down. Easy-Peasy!

[Snake45]

I've seen them on older releases as Joe mentioned. I just take my Dremel Moto Tool and grind those suckers down. Easy-Peasy!

I've been using a razor saw for part detachment for 30 or 40 years.

[MrObsessive]

I've been using a razor saw for part detachment for 30 or 40 years.

I think he's talking about the "humps" that are left inside the body after it's detached from the runner in the factory. Just a guess, but those I've found can impede how well the chassis/interior will fit later on. Much easier to grind those humps downs with a Moto-Tool if you have one.

[Snake45]

I think he's talking about the "humps" that are left inside the body after it's detached from the runner in the factory. Just a guess, but those I've found can impede how well the chassis/interior will fit later on. Much easier to grind those humps downs with a Moto-Tool if you have one.

Ah, okay. The only time I've ever had a problem with those was on a metal-body '68 Chevelle SS kit on which I was correcting the side window lines. My enlarged windows ran through a large "rib" running up both sides, so I too ground those out with a Dremel.

I think I've used my Dremel for model work maybe four times in the last 20 years. You don't need a Dremel often, but when you do, nothing else will do!

[Xingu]

Not sure how many kits get made in a day, but is it possible all the warpage issues are from a single batch or single day.

 

[Tom Geiger]

Here's your solution!   

Note that these kits were produced and probably packaged by a subcontractor to Revell.  As was said in this thread, you can probably straighten the body out by gluing the tailgate in place.  I don't have one of the new issues,  I still have two more of the old ones to build.

[mikemodeler]

Here's your solution!   

Note that these kits were produced and probably packaged by a subcontractor to Revell.  As was said in this thread, you can probably straighten the body out by gluing the tailgate in place.  I don't have one of the new issues,  I still have two more of the old ones to build.

Sorry Tom, but the twisted body in my kit is beyond the usual hot water tricks applied to a warped body. About all it is good for is practice painting.

[Joe Handley]

Not sure how many kits get made in a day, but is it possible all the warpage issues are from a single batch or single day.

 

That's a possibility, and it was both pretty hot and humid around that time in the Chicagoland area, wonder if the weather could have affected how the plastic cooled.

 

That said, I did do some poking around, we've got a got at least 6 or 7 molding facilities with in a mile from work, punch it out a couple miles more and then it goes up closer to a dozen, all in a mile or so radius from the Dupage County Airport!

Edited September 5, 2016 by Joe Handley

[Ace-Garageguy]

That's a possibility, and it was both pretty hot and humid around that time in the Chicagoland area, wonder if the weather could have affected how the plastic cooled.

Higher ambient temperatures can definitely have an effect on industrial processes, and very possibly on the time it takes for a part to cool for it to be sufficiently dimensionally stable to de-mold. It IS surprising that there isn't any QC guy on the line who looks for things like this, or at the very least, a temperature-probe that's tied in to the de-mold timing.

Remember that molds have to be heated to allow the molten plastic to flow properly during injection, and then have to be actively cooled to allow for de-molding without warping like we're seeing.

Some sources site the cooling-time may be as much as 95% of the cycle time, so short-cutting it can be seen as a profit maker...but not, obviously, if the molding contractor has to eat the rejects and returns.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Joe Handley]

I'm wondering if that maybe there was some fast and loose actions with the cooling times and lax QC during that time period when this happened in combination with the hot, humid weather.

[Tom Geiger]

 

That said, I did do some poking around, we've got a got at least 6 or 7 molding facilities with in a mile from work, punch it out a couple miles more and then it goes up closer to a dozen, all in a mile or so radius from the Dupage County Airport!

Okay so we have a plan. Joe is going to nose around, knock on doors and figure out who the culprit is.  Then he can yell at them for us!

[Joe Handley]

I actually know somebody who worked for a facility that is next door in St. Charles, but he said they weren't working on them.

[Skip]

Kinda makes one wonder just what the QA people are doing for their money, as it's obviously not having much impact on QA.

Statistical Process Control,  inspect 1 in 13, find no defect for next 26 lots, inspect 1 in 50,  no effects for XXXX, 1 in XXXX,,,  The Asian manufacturers bought into everything W. Edwards Deming had to say about quality, they thought Deming's 14 points were the thing the world revolves on, which includes greater and greater use of self inspection procedures.  Now couple that with a manufacturing facility in a country where workers are harshly punished for mistakes.  Think said worker is going to blow the whistle on themselves, yeah right.  Couple that with workers being paid piecework wages and you have a recipe for warped bodies!

Edited September 7, 2016 by Skip
wrong Deming

[Harry P.]

I'm wondering if that maybe there was some fast and loose actions with the cooling times and lax QC during that time period when this happened in combination with the hot, humid weather.

Wouldn't these manufacturing facilities be temperature controlled? As in AC in the summer and heated in the winter. Don't see how outdoor temp and/or humidity could have any impact on the manufacturing process. After all, the injection molding machines aren't outdoors!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Wouldn't these manufacturing facilities be temperature controlled? 

Not necessarily. Depends on the particular facility, the location, other factors. Mostly-automated process areas often don't need to be air-conditioned as long as there's sufficient ventilation to prevent heat build-up, and many processes generate sufficient heat so that winter environmental heating can be minimized as well. 

Modern injection-molding typically requires the molds to be internally heated prior to injection of the plastic, and then internally cooled before removal of the parts.

The equipment that performs the heating and cooling cycles is usually automated and should ideally be provided with temperature probes and logic that override any "set" timing cycle. Apparently this was not the case for the kit run being discussed here.

Several technologies are available to manage this.

Interesting article here: http://www.plasticsmachinerymagazine.com/technology/molds-tooling/rapid-mold-heating-cooling-technology-on-cutting-edge.html

And another one:   http://www.ptonline.com/articles/hot-cold-thermal-cycling-of-injection-molds-heats-up

Even if the plant is old and using dark-ages tech, rational process-management would dictate that the tools not be opened and parts de-molded above a specified mold temperature, even if the process was entirely performed by semi-skilled humans. If it's hotter in the plant on a particular day and the mold takes longer to cool to the required temperature, all the operator has to do is look at the temperature readout on the MOLD (assuming there IS one) to know if it's safe to de-mold without warping of the product.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[slusher]

Would some be warped at the time of packaging and could bring it to someone's attention ??

[Jantrix]

Would some be warped at the time of packaging and could bring it to someone's attention ??

Odds are they go from injection molding to bagging as some sort of automated system. They might never be touched by human hands before they are bagged. Once they are bagged, the warp could go unnoticed by casual inspection. I agree,  these look like they were ejected from the mold before the plastic was cool enough to hold it's shape. Odds are it's a cycle time issue. A manufacturer will always try to increase cycle time to get more done faster. Molds opened faster, pneumatic pickers move faster to take the parts as the ejector pins push the product out, conveyors move faster, etc, etc. Odds are some engineer cut corners and decided that the cycle times for that kit should work for this one. But the real failing here is with quality control. They are obviously not sampling enough product to detect these issues. I've sent a message to Revell customer service and linked this thread. We'll see if they respond.

[crazyjim]

I have the kit coming from IPMS to do a review.  Hope it won't be warped.

[Jantrix]

From Ed Sexton at Revell.

cservice <cservice@revell.com>

Dear Rob,

We have investigated this issue and could not find anything but perfect bodies. We saw the complaint on the message board and opened numerous kits from different lots. We did not find any warped or bent bodies.

If someone has a problem they can write to me personally and I will take care of it. Can things like this happen, sure they can. But we will do our best to make sure things come out right in the end.

 

Regards,

Ed Sexton

Revell, Inc.