Avoid the reissue Revell Ramcharger

[plastic trucker]

All that means is that all the warped bodies might have already been sent out and their going through an all new different batch that aren't warped. Or the warpage happened from the factory to the warehouse.

[Joe Handley]

I stopped by a HL after work today to get some paints and looked at one of these kits. Didn't mention West Chicago on the packaging, but did have a date from the time period in question stamped on the bottom of the box, plus some damage to the box, so it just got put back on the shelf.

[mikemodeler]

From Ed Sexton at Revell.

cservice <cservice@revell.com>

Dear Rob,

We have investigated this issue and could not find anything but perfect bodies. We saw the complaint on the message board and opened numerous kits from different lots. We did not find any warped or bent bodies.

If someone has a problem they can write to me personally and I will take care of it. Can things like this happen, sure they can. But we will do our best to make sure things come out right in the end.

 

Regards,

Ed Sexton

Revell, Inc.

 

This sounds great, but how does that explain the member who got a replacement body that was warped?

 

I am glad to have this kit available, but wonder how some of us got warped bodies and the stock at the Revell office is okay?

[unclescott58]

Ed Saxon from Revell is great. From what I've seen he will take care of the problem. He said to contact him personally if you have a problem, and he'll take care it. And he will.

 

[426-Hemi]

I bet its NOT "Revell" at all......... I BET that its the warehouse shipping them to Hobby Lobby, and the tight packing they do on the pallets! (GO buy one else where just to see if the body is in better shape!) Real hobby shops NOT "Craft Stores" don't pack in the volume in their trucks as I bet Hobby Lobby does!

I've already got 2 of these, NOT from the reissue, so. I'm good!

[charlie8575]

Statistical Process Control,  inspect 1 in 13, find no defect for next 26 lots, inspect 1 in 50,  no effects for XXXX, 1 in XXXX,,,  The Asian manufacturers bought into everything W. Edwards Deming had to say about quality, they thought Deming's 14 points were the thing the world revolves on, which includes greater and greater use of self inspection procedures.  Now couple that with a manufacturing facility in a country where workers are harshly punished for mistakes.  Think said worker is going to blow the whistle on themselves, yeah right.  Couple that with workers being paid piecework wages and you have a recipe for warped bodies!

Remember, those "harsh punishments" are in direct opposition to Deming's philosophy. Paraphrasing, one principle is "remove all threats from the workplace and instill joy in work."

The Chinese ethos hardly does that.

I've been writing a class that I plan to offer to some colleges on Deming and his philosophy in an attempt to humanize business education at the college level, and while I personally don't agree with all of his ideas, they're all worth discussing and studying.

Through the Crisis, which is one of his most important books, is available through Google Books and in print from MIT Press. It's a fascinating book, and very easy to read for anyone.

Charlie Larkin

[JTalmage]

I bought my Ramcharger from HobbyTown USA and it was warped. So it's not just hobby lobby. I'm going to try the hot water method before I contact Revell. 

[randyc]

I didn't read all 4 pages, but if you are returning a kit to replace, I would go to the service desk where I went to return the damaged one and open the kit in the store and check the body.  If it's warped, keep going til you find a good one or give up.  Be nice of course - not the employee's fault probably.   burn me once...  That is a lot of plastic in the Ramcharger body and it probably should have more cooling time before removing from the mold?  

I've only had a few warped/damaged bodies in my years that were unsalvageable.  It's a shame but things do happen..

And btw, who let the person that knows who Deming is in here???  LOL  I had to do a QA certification class and his stuff was good, but danged hard to grasp in our quickie class.  Ishikawa charts and the like as well.  

Randy

[Harry P.]

I bet its NOT "Revell" at all......... I BET that its the warehouse shipping them to Hobby Lobby, and the tight packing they do on the pallets! (GO buy one else where just to see if the body is in better shape!) Real hobby shops NOT "Craft Stores" don't pack in the volume in their trucks as I bet Hobby Lobby does!

Don't stores like Hobby Lobby and Hobbytown USA rely on outside shipping companies to deliver product to their stores? Hobby Lobby isn't packing the pallets. 

And besides, the boxes that contained the warped bodies weren't crushed, so it's not a matter of "overstuffed" pallets. It seems more likely that the parts were removed from the molds before they had cooled sufficiently to hold their shape. It's not a problem with shipping, it's a problem with manufacturing. Hobby Lobby has nothing to do with the warped bodies. That's like blaming the dealer if your car gets recalled. The dealer didn't build your car, the manufacturer did!

[Joe Handley]

Can't speak for HL, but I know Great Planes/Hobbico usually shipped to my HTUs with UPS. It does sound more like an issue with who ever molded and/or packaged the kits though.

[426-Hemi]

Don't stores like Hobby Lobby and Hobbytown USA rely on outside shipping companies to deliver product to their stores? Hobby Lobby isn't packing the pallets. 

And besides, the boxes that contained the warped bodies weren't crushed, so it's not a matter of "overstuffed" pallets. It seems more likely that the parts were removed from the molds before they had cooled sufficiently to hold their shape. It's not a problem with shipping, it's a problem with manufacturing. Hobby Lobby has nothing to do with the warped bodies. That's like blaming the dealer if your car gets recalled. The dealer didn't build your car, the manufacturer did!

It be the warehouse, and for that the box really doesn't need to be "crushed" to mal-form the body, pressure to one side or and other to make the box skewed would be all it need.... Heck the warehouse could have been storing them like that AND as I'm sure you know those warehouses aren't A/C'd in the storage areas, unless its a food needing to be cool. so, take it for what it is.... 

For what its worth, I bet there was a whole pallet of them that were like that specially in this case!

[1930fordpickup]

This is all in the processing and handling at the factory that made the kit. Time is money and the boss gets paid more if the press is running parts that go in the box. 

These should have all been put into the regrind bin not put in a box top sell. 

[Tom Geiger]

What would be prudent to do right about now...   those of you who have a warped body, post the kit information...  any lot or date information, any mention of plant origin.  Also, place purchased, city and state..  that's how you narrow down a problem.

Once we have a list it may be narrowed down to one lot or a single day of production.

Ed Sexton is a stand up guy and a real model guy.  He wants everything to be right.

[mikemodeler]

What would be prudent to do right about now...   those of you who have a warped body, post the kit information...  any lot or date information, any mention of plant origin.  Also, place purchased, city and state..  that's how you narrow down a problem.

Once we have a list it may be narrowed down to one lot or a single day of production.

Ed Sexton is a stand up guy and a real model guy.  He wants everything to be right.

I did just that when I sent my information to Revell thru their website. Hopefully they can identify when these kits were run and the defective batch(es).

My guess is that the warped bodies were part of an early run and they may have made some changes afterwards.Could be a new factory or vendor and not fully aware of the process?

[s10chevypu]

Hi all, after reading some of the things posted on this kit from revell, I could not wait to get this kit in my hands to check it out.I got it from model roundup before this post came out. Well it came today and I had to open it to see if the body or parts were warped, the date on the bottom of the box was 6/23/16. Well I got a good one, no warped body or parts to be found in my box. I have the gone fishing kit that came out some time ago. I still have the boat that came with it and wanted another truck kit. I glad this kit had no warped parts in it at all. could say I got lucky with this kit. I do hope revell takes care of this problem with all that got warped bodys or parts.      Joe

[Rob Hall]

I got one from Tower Hobbies last month... no warpage. 

[1930fordpickup]

Good to here that a few kits are ok. 

 

[Longbox55]

I bet its NOT "Revell" at all......... I BET that its the warehouse shipping them to Hobby Lobby, and the tight packing they do on the pallets! (GO buy one else where just to see if the body is in better shape!) Real hobby shops NOT "Craft Stores" don't pack in the volume in their trucks as I bet Hobby Lobby does!

I've already got 2 of these, NOT from the reissue, so. I'm good!

Good theory, and I can certainly speak from experience about warehouses doing just that from when I worked for a major retailers automotive department as a mechanic. Not only would merchandise be improperly stacked on the pallet, wrapped so tight that the boxes were warped, but they would stack tires on top of them, too! Lost track of how many times we got damaged merchandise we couldn't sell, not to mention broken oil bottles, partly from being crushed, partly from the driver throwing them off the truck because he didn't want to take the extra 5 seconds to carry it down to the doors to prevent damaging it.

However, as far as Hobby Lobby goes, we used to have one in the mall were the company I worked for was located, and was in there on an almost daily basis, usually early enough to see what was coming in before it went on the shelves. Their model shipments come in the same way that regular hobby shops do, always boxed inside a larger lot box, and mostly delivered by UPS.

[426-Hemi]

Good theory, and I can certainly speak from experience about warehouses doing just that from when I worked for a major retailers automotive department as a mechanic. Not only would merchandise be improperly stacked on the pallet, wrapped so tight that the boxes were warped, but they would stack tires on top of them, too! Lost track of how many times we got damaged merchandise we couldn't sell, not to mention broken oil bottles, partly from being crushed, partly from the driver throwing them off the truck because he didn't want to take the extra 5 seconds to carry it down to the doors to prevent damaging it.

However, as far as Hobby Lobby goes, we used to have one in the mall were the company I worked for was located, and was in there on an almost daily basis, usually early enough to see what was coming in before it went on the shelves. Their model shipments come in the same way that regular hobby shops do, always boxed inside a larger lot box, and mostly delivered by UPS.

I don't think its Hobby Looby or Revell at all......... the warehouses are terrible! I used to work at one and SEEN pallets of things going one place or another that were tipped off a forktruck, dropped from a loading dock, and all even ones SAT against a wall that were "wedged" where one side of the pallet was on the ground and the other side acoss from it UP THE WALL........ So, your not tellin' me anything at all on this!

 

I bet its the storage of the pallet that Revell shipped to the warehouse and then what was done from there is where the damage happened PLUS remember everyone these warehouses..............ARE NOT Air Conditioned! They get blistering hot in the spring & summer, you can FORM styrene plastic with a HAIR DRYER, much less a 115 degree warehouse with a jam packed pallet, improperly stored, or so tightly wound with shrink wrap its not funny....

So I'm not not 100% sure who is to blame, BUT you can bet, Revell did not PULL thousands of bodies out of the mold still hot..... This isn't done by hand guys, not the big companies! its done by machine.....  Its all timed to the set time of cool OR the machine itself, has a gauge to tell the temp of the plastic part to then know when to "de-mold" the part.... Its not done by hand, or by an actual "person"..... To big a company to have that to do.... Automated. Been there and done that too! -I used to OWN a plastic mold injection machine.... Which also had METAL mold injection parts to it.... VERY dangerous to own privately, they put out some serious fumes, (I had it for 5 years till health issues from it cropped up on me) And today those health issues are gone, but, not forgotten! Molding (molten) plastic is a killer in the air with a mask and an oxygen bottle to the mask it still gets to your lungs!

Believe me I have no part in Revell, but I do know, how these parts are made and what it takes, and for what happened to that Ramcharger body, isn't from pre-cure mold "de-molding". if that were the case, you'd see stretch marks and un-uniformity in the plastic...... What did this was poor storage, or poor handling possibly both. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

 

I bet its the storage of the pallet that Revell shipped to the warehouse and then what was done from there is where the damage happened PLUS remember everyone these warehouses..............ARE NOT Air Conditioned! They get blistering hot in the spring & summer, you can FORM styrene plastic with a HAIR DRYER, much less a 115 degree warehouse with a jam packed pallet, improperly stored, or so tightly wound with shrink wrap its not funny....

...Believe me I have no part in Revell, but I do know, how these parts are made and what it takes, and for what happened to that Ramcharger body, isn't from pre-cure mold "de-molding". if that were the case, you'd see stretch marks and un-uniformity in the plastic...... What did this was poor storage, or poor handling possibly both. 

All very interesting, I'm sure, but "early de-molding" is very often cited as the cause of damage like this within the industry, by engineers whose jobs it is to correct issues like this.

And...ummm...how do you reconcile your theory with the fact that NO damage to the boxes is being reported? No crushed or warped boxes mentioned. How do you suppose the contents are getting warped when the little ol' flimsy cardboard boxes aren't showing any damage whatsoever?

This is only one of many articles written about troubleshooting the "warpage" problem in the injection molding process: Plastic Injection Molding Troubleshooting Warpage Improves Production Performance

http://www.improve-your-injection-molding.com/plastic-injection-molding-troubleshooting.html

[426-Hemi]

Ace,

Buddy, in warehouses in HEAT the box doesn't have to be "crushed" just skewed enough to distort the parts inside..... Then once moved from the heat source, it "stays"... early removal from the molding process would cause what plastic thats injected to "stretch", as its NOT "elastic"..... From the pics of the OP, the plastic did not look "stretched" just merely skewed..... Skewing is from the storage in a hot warehouse NOT properly stored, where the whole row of shipment boxes got skewed, NOT those boxes (the ones the model kit boxes are put into for shipment to the warehouse probably took most if not all the damages!!!! This is why the warehouse shipped them, no signs of damage to the kit box! THAT IS if they were even checked at that point.... most times this is the stuff that goes unnoticed!

Let me paint you a picture..... You have a "row" of 4 foot pallets, OK? IN that row, your to have say 6 pallets lined up............ OK? The LAST pallet to go in that "row" in the hot warehouse, is slightly off, the last pallet doesn't fit as it should because the linement of all the rest is of just enough..... To not allow that last one to fit right.

These pallets, are wrapped with shrink wrap, TIGHTLY.... SO, having this the guy driving the fork truck merely "SHOVES" the pallet in place anyway, and continues on about his job (whether he's good at his job ain't in question) That pallet is squeezed, or skewed just enough to fit, which skews the boxes holding say 6 kits at a time.... OK?

In that hot warehouse, those kits sit, in a skewed pallet, NOW I know these pallets couldn't hold a second on top of it, BUT, being they're shrink wrapped to be then loaded into a truck or broken down to be shipped by mail, is the next step.... BUT if those kits on THAT pallet, is shipped as-is, that shrink wrap will hold them as it was till the pressure of it is released..... OK? 

Then you get the models to the shelves from THAT pallet, and because the pallet was initially jammed in-place, skewed, in heat, and shrink wrapped, then taken out of that said heat..... The shrink wrap if still in-place on THAT pallet remains to hold that skewed position, this all puts pressure on the kits and parts inside!

Then the consumers get them, and think its a manufacturing company..... Lets face it, did you LOOK at the parts box the kit comes in? WHERE are they MADE? I bet its NOT in the USA! They're SHIPPED HERE in planes, on a boat, but they're shipped, in BULK form, on pallets, that I can tell you, went through H E L L getting here, to the shelve we as the consumer take them from!

Now to give you a good one, my last job? I worked for the Liquor Commission that I reside in, and they have a local "warehouse" NOT in the heat the whole thing is almost refrigerated, is cool in there, I've seen THOUSANDS of bottles of say Jack Daniels, on 4 foot by 4 foot pallets where the cases of liquor is stacked interlocked boxes, OK? shrink wrapped to keep the cases from toppling off the pallet when lifted, if the pallet gets skewed at ALL ALL those cases of liquor boxes shift, and the pallet then looks like a leaning tower, I've seen the top corner of one pallet being so skewed it was over a FOOT past the edge of the pallet is sat on! WHEN it was loaded, on the truck to make the delivery, they cut the shrink wrap, and 3 cases of Jack Daniels hit the trailers floor, (yes what a smell that was!) BUT the boxes these bottles were in? showed NO damage! On those that were shipped, Now we know glass bottles do no "warp", BUT, styrene plastic does! 

I've also drove truck, 18 wheeler, loaded trailers MYSELF in certain loads, but seen how things get done when others load YOUR truck, I've seen trailers split in half cause the loading guy from the warehouse wound up putting ALL the pallets in a 53 foot box trailer all on one side! I've seen pallets that should have NEVER left the warehouse for store delivery leave the warehouse for store delivery, that should have been put on a truck BACK to the place of origin due to damages, BUT instead, stuck in the delivery truck and shipped, because that "order" would have not been filled otherwise!

Honestly? This is where these companies should have ON SITE Quality Control personnel at the warehouses looking over their product! As I BET this type thing wouldn't happen! BUT when your shipment of product (in this case) is coming from China, its difficult to "ship it back" to its origin, and made right.

[drummerdad]

It might be the way they are packaging them. I have removed a kit from the box, and repacked it, and couldnt get the lid back on. The boxes are typically just big enough to get the kit in. If you dont stack the parts right, it could cause pressure, even without a crushed box. 

I recently bought an old 1/16 Lamborghini Countach (my dream car). I had been waiting for a good deal, and found one. The box was damaged, but not crushed. I pulled the kit out, and the parts are so warped, I dont know if I can build it. All the parts could have fit in one box, but it was loosely packaged in two large boxes, then another even larger box. All the parts seem to be warped....doors, body, tub, everything. So, I dont know what happened.

[JTalmage]

So... if I threw the receipt away before I even unsealed the box.... how do I go about proving my purchase/obtaining a replacement body?

[crazyjim]

Don't need it Jesse.  Just go here - -  http://www.revell.com/support/parts-request.php

[Luc Janssens]

What would be prudent to do right about now...   those of you who have a warped body, post the kit information...  any lot or date information, any mention of plant origin.  Also, place purchased, city and state..  that's how you narrow down a problem.

Once we have a list it may be narrowed down to one lot or a single day of production.

Ed Sexton is a stand up guy and a real model guy.  He wants everything to be right.

Indeed Tom, that is problem solving, trying to find the root cause, through tracking...

About injection molding cycle time, is it something that is adjustable by the operator, or is it a fixed setting by a molding expert or the company who contracted them with the work...