Poor quality BMF

[Snake45]

3 hours ago, jchrisf said:

It doesn't match the chrome on the bumper but neither does the real car.  I think it looks great and just like the real thing.  Perfect execution.

What is the recipe for your homebrew liquid mask?  That turned out to be a perfect masking job.

The client was pleased with it. 

Big squirt of Elmer's Glue in a small bottle (I use a plastic 35mm film can, but a pill bottle or old paint bottle would work just as well), thinned with HOT water to whatever consistency you want--and it will take much LESS hot water to thin the stuff than you'd think, trust me--a few drops will do. If you get it too thin, squirt in some more Elmers and keep stirring. When you have it where you want it (I like a brushable gel), stir in one or two drops of dishwashing liquid to break the surface tension it will have when go to use it. Dawn works well. The soap also seems to promote easy, troublefree removal of the mask when you're done. Finally, a few drops of food coloring (I use red) can help you keep track of where you have the stuff, and where you might need more. This homebrew works FAR better than ANY liquid mask I've ever paid cash money for. 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Snake45

[jchrisf]

Thanks Snake.. I'll give that a try!

[Tom Geiger]

I'm going to agree with Steve.  I don't have issues applying BMF.  In fact I find it is the one single thing you can do to a model that drastically improves it instantly.  I find it relaxing.  The only symptom of old BMF... as in very old 10 years plus half sheet I found in the bottom of a drawer... was that it refused to come off the carrier sheet.  So that's more like  adhering too good than not at all.

A few of my observations...  where most people mess up with BMF is being too stingy with the product.  When you buy 1:1 carpet, you order 25-30% more because there is that much waste in the installation.  BMF is like that, but more like up to 50% waste.  So you don't try to save little scraps.  Those are the ones you will have issues with.

A few of my rules-

Cut a piece 3 times the width of that side trim. Center it and press down ONCE.  Do not lift it back off the model and re position it.  The glue is now tainted.  

Cut off those two sides to get a clean edge on your chrome strip.  Lift off the excess foil and THROW IT AWAY.  Do not return it to the carrier sheet to use again. It is tainted.

Cut your strips long enough so you can position it by holding onto it with your fingers on either edge.  The strip should be longer than needed so that you cut off and throw away the parts where your fingers touched the glue.  Once your fingers touch the glue... it's tainted, throw it away.

So the basic rule is that the BMF only touches the body ONCE.  If your fingers or anything else have touched that glue, it's tainted and needs to be thrown away.  It doesn't matter how attractive that removed piece is to you, it will come back to bite you later.

And BMF is one of the most forgiving modeling tasks.  If your chrome strip doesn't look right, pull it off  THROW IT AWAY  and try again with a fresh piece.  There is no reason to accept a wrinkle or other deformity.

Knife pressure-  Use a new number 11 blade.  You do not press down with the knife. The foil is very thin and will cut with the slight pressure.  Put your knife in the groove you are following (like edge of a chrome strip) and just trace it like you are tracing lightly with a pencil.  That should do it.

Set a reasonable goal for how much BMF to attempt in one sitting.  Don't over tire yourself, it just leads to mistakes.  And once you are frustrated and lost patience, get up and walk away! It will look a whole lot better tomorrow! 

Figure that you will get 2 models out of an $8 sheet of BMF.  Most of the mistakes I see are people not following the above set of rules.  People trying to cut the strip the exact width of the chrome strip,  touching and repositioning the strip several times, etc.

And of course every time I post this, people debate me!  If you are willing to accept mediocre results, so be it. If you want contest quality results, you can do it!

 

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Tom Geiger

[MrObsessive]

To add what Tom said above, your BMF will only look as good as the surface underneath. If the chrome on your model is not rubbed out to be as smooth as possible, no amount of BMF will fix that.

Sooooo.........this means before you put on the BMF, get out your polishing cloths and or sanding sticks and make that surface as billiard table smooth as you can. I've seen really nice put together models only to have distracting crinkles and orange peel show where they didn't take the time to rub those surfaces out.

And yes, this all takes time! It's not unusual for me to foil a car the likes of a '58 Chevy for instance, taking the better part of a week to do so working an hour or so at a time. Yes, for me it takes that long considering how much chrome that car has, and doing what I've described above so the chrome can be the best it can be.

16 minutes ago, Tom Geiger said:

If you are willing to accept mediocre results, so be it. If you want contest quality results, you can do it!

This is the best advice that can be given! Having been a judge in contests in the past, I've seen cars knocked out of first place due to the reasons I've shown above. One car while very nicely put together, the builder didn't take the time to make that BMF as good as it could have been, while an identical car built by a different builder, got the first place trophy because they did take the time and effort.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Tom Geiger said:

 

There is nothing that I can disagree with in this post.

Everything you said is spot on!

The only thing that I might add is, it's not as complicated as it sounds.

It's not rocket science.

Common sense will take you a long way, as well as a little practice.

It also puzzles me a bit when people talk about the expense of BMF as if it's made of platinum or something!

Yet people seem to have few issues with spending loads of money on all sorts of detail items from custom wheels & tires, to PE parts, but for some reason, for some people, that $8.00 is just a bridge too far for a product that is going to make a large difference on whether your build looks like a model, or something closer to 1:1, which I was under the impression is what we strive for.

So if I have to throw away a half of a sheet of BMF because of whatever issue, that $3.00 or $4.00, (barely enough to buy a bottle of beer in a restaurant by the way) is not really going to break the bank!

And as a side note, I can usually manage at least 3 or 4 pretty heavily chrome laden kits out of one sheet.

So, at a couple of dollars per build, it hardly registers as an expense at all to me.

I spend a lot more than that on primer, paint and clear coat!

 

Steve

Edited June 10, 2018 by StevenGuthmiller

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, Snake45 said:

It's Testor Chrome Silver, airbrushed BEFORE the main paint and masked with my homebrew liquid mask, applied by hand with a brush. Seemed like the best way to do this particular job. 

I thought it did a pretty good job of portraying the trim on the real car, which wasn't SUPER bright chrome. 

 

It did work fine & looks correct for a more aged look as on a car like this, but if you're shooting for something closer to what the car would have originally looked like, the stainless trim, (I'm assuming that the '56 Chevy was mostly stainless) it would have been nearly indistinguishable from chrome plating.

Furthermore, the masking technique you speak of would work well for a build like this where you're only shooting a very limited amount of paint over your mask.

If you were going to paint the trim, mask it and then spray several coats of color and clear over the top, I don't think you would end up with a very clean looking edge on the trim.

But, as I said, whatever floats your boat is good with me.

Personally, I would rather have a system that I can use on every build that I do.

Changing things up as I go from project to project has never worked for me.

I feel that when you find a regime that works under every circumstance, you should stick with it.

Just my personal observation.

 

Steve

 

 

This is more along the lines of how the trim should have looked originally.

 

[peteski]

Like already mentioned, if the model is waxed before applying BMF, that can affect its adhesion.  Especially if it is a silicone-based wax.  BMF should be applied ether to clean bare (polished) plastic surface, or to glossy painted surface.

I have some BMF that is around 20+ years old and the adhesive still works (well, it did when I used it couple of years ago).

I should add that my experience is almost exclusively with the "Original Chrome" foil.  Well, I did also use a small piece of the gold foil for foiling a Chevy bow tie emblem.  That worked ok. I did try the BMF bright chrome foil and I found it unusable (similar to the thankfully gone Detail Master foil).  It was too stiff and not stretchy enough to conform to complex curves.  I never tried using the black foil either.

Here are few of my 1:32 scale Gunze Sangyo models I built in the early '90s.  These were my first attempts of using BMF (with the Blue Caddy was my first BMF job).  And that light blue '57 Chevy photo you see on the BMF envelopes is also from this series of kits (and build and photographed by me). I was honored when El (BMF's original proprietor) asked if he could use my model for advertising.

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by peteski

[89AKurt]

I've had issues too.  One sheet of the flat aluminum had no adhesive to speak of.  I used the original version on a pickup cover, on diamond plate, it has wrinkled up over time, need to redo.  Not convinced with Molotov pens, you need to do it right the first time, never touch up.

[fiatboy]

Well I guess I will put my 2 cents in:  previously in this thread, I said that I had severe adhesion problems with a brand-new sheet of BMF New Improved Chrome.  So, I tried the Microscale Micro Metal Foil Adhesive, and it worked just great!  However, it is true that I have not had that much experience with BMF.

[StevenGuthmiller]

7 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

I've had issues too.  One sheet of the flat aluminum had no adhesive to speak of.  I used the original version on a pickup cover, on diamond plate, it has wrinkled up over time, need to redo.  Not convinced with Molotov pens, you need to do it right the first time, never touch up.

I have also had some adhesion problems with the aluminum BMF, as well as the black chrome.

This seems to be pretty common with the other variants of BMF, but the regular, (New Improved) is generally good, at least it always has been for me.

 

Steve

[Tom Geiger]

47 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

This seems to be pretty common with the other variants of BMF, but the regular, (New Improved) is generally good, at least it always has been for me.

As we’ve said, buy the regular BMF and follow the advise in this thread, and you should be good.

We have a new member in our club this month who had BMF questions. We promised to do a demonstration at our next meeting. Anyone who can be in Perth Amboy NJ on Saturday August 11 is welcome to attend.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Tom Geiger

[crowe-t]

I had a sheet of BMF New and Improved Chrome for about 6 years and kept it in a bag in the refrigerator and never had any problems with adhesion.    

A few months ago I bought a new sheet of BMF New and Improved Chrome and it doesn't stick as well as the old stuff I had for years.  

[StevenGuthmiller]

Here's a nice little adhesion story for you.

A few days ago, I dug out an old Modelhaus 1956 Cadillac that had been painted with enamel & partially foiled possibly as long as 20 years ago.

I decided that a fresh start was required so I dropped it in the purple pond for a few hours to strip it.

Here's where the fun starts!

All of the paint and primer just rinsed right off, except for where the foil was!!

I had to get out the heavy artillery to scrape off the foil!

It was literally fused to the paint & the body!

Once I scraped off all of the foil, the paint underneath rinsed away after another half hour in the purple stuff.

I don't think there were any adhesion issues there!

The foil was stuck down tighter than the paint!

 

Steve

[High octane]

My first BMF job was in the early 80's and it still looks good today. I guess I got lucky?

[Brutalform]

On 6/7/2018 at 1:01 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

I still don't have much faith in the Molotow chrome for external trim.

Nobody really knows how well it will hold up over time, especially if used on areas of the model that get some handling.

I use it for touch up & things like interior parts that are not easily foiled, but I would like someone to explain to me how you can get a nice clean, straight line on something like a side spear without masking it all off.

BMF was invented as a much more realistic & easier alternative to painting trim.

When using the Molotow pens, you're basically going back to "painting" your trim with a shinier paint.

I asked for some photos a while back on a different thread of some side spears or other long trim on a model done with the pens & an explanation of how it was done & have never received a response.

Seems to me that you would need a perfectly steady hand to get a perfectly straight line with these pens, just as you did back in the days of Testors chrome silver paint.

 

Steve

I agree. I tried the pens on a few cars, and I am all for BMF. The chrome pens work in a few instances, but for me not for doing the entire car with them instead of BMF.

[MrObsessive]

I built this Mustang Shelby racer in 1995. With the little BMF I had to use on it-----it's still just as bright and shiny as it was the day I put it on pushing 25 years ago now. It's one of the oldest I have in my built-up collection, and I have to say it's held up pretty well.

On 6/25/2018 at 8:56 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Here's a nice little adhesion story for you.

A few days ago, I dug out an old Modelhaus 1956 Cadillac that had been painted with enamel & partially foiled possibly as long as 20 years ago.

I decided that a fresh start was required so I dropped it in the purple pond for a few hours to strip it.

Here's where the fun starts!

All of the paint and primer just rinsed right off, except for where the foil was!!

I had to get out the heavy artillery to scrape off the foil!

It was literally fused to the paint & the body!

Once I scraped off all of the foil, the paint underneath rinsed away after another half hour in the purple stuff.

I don't think there were any adhesion issues there!

The foil was stuck down tighter than the paint!

 

Steve

I bet I'd have the same issue with the Shelby if I ever had to do that! BMF can be tough as nails when it's on long enough!

[Tom Geiger]

My first BMF job done some 30 years ago, still looks as good as it did the day I did it!

[Harpo]

It's interesting to find this thread.  I got back into the hobby recently, and BMF was new to me.  I purchased a sheet each of "Improved Chrome" and "Matte Aluminum", and no matter how well I prep, this stuff won't stick at all. 

Started using Molotow, very pleased.

[Snake45]

2 hours ago, Harpo said:

It's interesting to find this thread.  I got back into the hobby recently, and BMF was new to me.  I purchased a sheet each of "Improved Chrome" and "Matte Aluminum", and no matter how well I prep, this stuff won't stick at all. 

Yup. When I feel like gambling with $10 these days, I buy five Powerball tickets. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

23 hours ago, Snake45 said:

Yup. When I feel like gambling with $10 these days, I buy five Powerball tickets. 

I think the Molotow pen used for exterior trim is just as big, if not a larger gamble.

Who knows what will happen to this stuff a few years down the road.

 

Steve

[Snake45]

3 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I think the Molotow pen used for exterior trim is just as big, if not a larger gamble.

Who knows what will happen to this stuff a few years down the road.

 

Steve

You could be right. 

I haven't used mine that much, but I've been very happy with the results so far. Latest thing I did with it was "rechrome" a set of Cragars on a glue bomb. If I didn't tell you they were redone, you probably wouldn't notice. 

[crowe-t]

I contacted the Bare Metal Foil company and explained the problem I'm having with the adhesion of the BMF I have and they never responded.  I just contacted them on Facebook and got an immediate response.  Facebook seems to be the way to go. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by crowe-t

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, crowe-t said:

I contacted the Bare Metal Foil company and explained the problem I'm having with the adhesion of the BMF I have and they never responded.  I just contacted them on Facebook and got an immediate response.  Facebook seems to be the way to go. 

It's becoming that way with everything.

I sent 2 emails in the past few months to George at Kustom Krome & have never received a response.

Luckily I was able to find the information that I needed from him through other avenues because I don't even have a Facebook account.

 

Steve

[gtx6970]

On 7/29/2018 at 5:51 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

I think the Molotow pen used for exterior trim is just as big, if not a larger gamble.

Who knows what will happen to this stuff a few years down the road.

 

Steve

I built a few thunderbolts going on close to 2 years ago. One of them all the trim is the pen. On a 2nd one only part of the trim is the pen. Problem is I cant remember which one is which. and All are packed up at the moment and will be for the foreseeable  immediate  future . When I boxed them up a few weeks back, all still looked great

[Tom Geiger]

17 minutes ago, gtx6970 said:

Nice set!  I guess you must know this kit pretty darn well by now!