Ala Kart a la carte: Part TWO, Compare and Contrast (Nov. 2018)

[Ace-Garageguy]

For those who are interested and would like easy access to Part One, or who missed it entirely, click here:

It's been a while. But here are more shots of the parts of the two kits, compared. 

Original issue tires above, "new tool" tires below. The new versions are nice, with insert whitewalls. They also appear to be scaled to 14" rims, while the early ones were 15"

Original issue wheels on the left, new-tool on right. Again, the new-tool parts appear to represent 14" rims.

Rear axles, original to the left. The newer part looks a little better, but it fails to render the diff center section correctly.

Front suspension wishbones and steering linkage, original on the right. The newer parts are probably preferable here too, but they need some work.

There are pretty significant proportion differences on the top. I tend to think (without measuring yet) that somewhere between the two is correct. There are differences in the trim stitching as well. New tool part on the right.

 

The original frame is on the left, new-tool on right. Pretty similar. I don't honestly know if the real car has a chromed rear crossmember. Need to look into that.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

New-tool windshield on the left. Fairly similar in proportion and height.

Old tool firewall on the left here. It represents the original car more correctly IIRC.

Now for the real insect in the ointment. The new-tool valve cover is on the left, and is ridiculously under-scale. This has been debated endlessly, but the original Dodge Red-Ram valve covers are scaled almost dead on the money.

Tiny little heads to match, in the new-tool kit.

The new-tool block (bottom part in gray plastic) is also under-scale, but the trans is about right. Go figure that one out. The gearbox in the old kit is actually one of the best early Ford gearboxes ever mastered.

And the really odd part: there IS sufficient room in the engine bay of the new-tool kit to fit the correctly-scaled engine. Yes, it's very tight, but it is on the real car too.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Can-Con]

I can't open the original post Bill. When I try I get this message,,

Sorry, there is a problem

This content can no longer be edited. It may have been moved or deleted, or too much time may have passed since it was posted for it to be edited.

Error code: 2F173/E

 

 

[1930fordpickup]

Bill just make the new tool kit engine an ultra rare early v6 hemi. 

[chris chabre]

8 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

I can't open the original post Bill. When I try I get this message,,

 

same here

 

 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

18 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

I can't open the original post Bill. When I try I get this message,,

Sorry, there is a problem

This content can no longer be edited. It may have been moved or deleted, or too much time may have passed since it was posted for it to be edited.

Error code: 2F173/E

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, chris chabre said:

 

Hmmmmm... I bumped the original thread to the top of this section, and it opens. Let me see if I can replace the link that's not working. Hmmmm...

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

It's working for me. I can see every excellent pic. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Snake45

[Ace-Garageguy]

I think I fixed the problem...

[chris chabre]

yep, got it now, Thanks Bill for doing this!!!

[Ace-Garageguy]

A note on engine sizes: The real Dodge Red Ram hemi engine was chosen for the Ala Kart because it was the smallest (exterior dimensions as well as displacement) of the Chrysler corporate hemi engines available at the time, and could be made to fit in the engine bay. 

A REAL Red Ram measures approximately 27" from the rear face of the block to the front face of the crank pulley.

The ORIGINAL Ala Kart kit gets this almost exactly right.

The "new tool" kit is embarrassingly under-scale, for no good reason.

By the way...the big Chrysler Firepower hemi was 32" long, and 2" wider across the heads than the Red Ram

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dennis Lacy]

Nice post, Bill. 

Yes, the original full scale Ala Kart does have a chromed rear cross member.

[bisc63]

So glad you brought this back. Many thanks; and love it, hate it, or care less, it is an important piece of custom auto history.

[Lordmodelbuilder]

I just picked up a badly built & painted original kit from Ebay for cheap.These 2 threads will really help with my planned rebuild. Thanks Bill !

[magicmustang]

Bill, I just found your thread on Ala Kart Part Two (don't know how I missed it as I have been watching for it ). Have read your analysis and Dave Darby's. Am I right to conclude that a "better" Ala Kart can be made using the following combination of parts. From the new release: tires , wheels, front and rear suspension?, and chassis.  From the original release: engine, fenders, nose, hood, body tub parts and pickup box (lowering the box cover in side the top lip).  Will need a set of Cady decals. Would this be a fair assumption? Please advise.  

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by magicmustang

[Howard Cohen]

When I first saw the late AMT version, I thought they had used the Howdy Ledbetter clone, Howli-Kart, his tribute to the original car, as shown at the 50th GNRS in 1999. Howdy told me that it took his shop a full week to copy the nose piece that Sam built in one day...think about that one. Here are some photographs that I took 20 years ago of the Howli-Kart. FYI...the paint and scallops were done the same way as the original and Howdy had Dean Jeffries paint the scallops.  

[Howard Cohen]

Then the original Ala Kart appeared at the Detroit Autorama in 2009, fully restored, again  

Now add these to your comparison. 

[iBorg]

I can see why replicating the nose would take so long. Not only are you trying to make the part but you're also constrained by making it as close in shape and size as the original, often without measurements and other details except their best guesses from photos. For example take two AMT Riveras, a reasonable common kit. Chop one then from pictures only chop the other one identically. Bet that's a challenge.

[Chuck Most]

The period of time which spawned wasn't a great time for AMT kits with correctly-scaled engines. If I recall, the American Graffiti T-Bird and '58 Edsel also had undersized engines. It's a shame too- the Edsel and Ala Cart mills are nicely detailed, but too small. The T-bird engine was junk though. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 3/23/2019 at 6:37 PM, magicmustang said:

Bill, I just found your thread on Ala Kart Part Two (don't know how I missed it as I have been watching for it ). Have read your analysis and Dave Darby's. Am I right to conclude that a "better" Ala Kart can be made using the following combination of parts. From the new release: tires , wheels, front and rear suspension?, and chassis.  From the original release: engine, fenders, nose, hood, body tub parts and pickup box (lowering the box cover in side the top lip).  Will need a set of Cady decals. Would this be a fair assumption? Please advise.  

I think you're on the right track. The end of this series was to have combined the best of the parts...not complete, but through final mockup...based on very careful measurement and study of photos of the original car. I'll get to it someday, but time constraints right now make it a back-burner project.

At this point, i'm inclined to believe that the original body parts are the more accurate, as you surmise. Definitely use the old engine/gearbox.

Just getting the stance right with the new-kit running gear and wheels/tires would go a LONG way towards achieving the right look, though. The original sits wrong.

Another improvement would be to use the rear end from one of the OLD Revell model-A kits too. They are correctly represented with the axle housing "bells" separate from the center section.

[stavanzer]

Oooh! I'm glad I found this thread. Great Comparo Pics!

[Modelbuilder Mark]

On 11/25/2018 at 6:57 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

Now for the real insect in the ointment. The new-tool valve cover is on the left, and is ridiculously under-scale. This has been debated endlessly, but the original Dodge Red-Ram valve covers are scaled almost dead on the money.

Tiny little heads to match, in the new-tool kit.

The new-tool block (bottom part in gray plastic) is also under-scale, but the trans is about right. Go figure that one out. The gearbox in the old kit is actually one of the best early Ford gearboxes ever mastered.

And the really odd part: there IS sufficient room in the engine bay of the new-tool kit to fit the correctly-scaled engine. Yes, it's very tight, but it is on the real car too.

 

 

Having heard this in the past, I used the smaller new kit motor in a 1/32 '32 Ford back in 2016, and it looked pretty scale correct for 1/32.

I am really glad to see you are are still ongoing with this project of yours. 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 5/28/2019 at 2:42 AM, Modelbuilder Mark said:

Having heard this in the past, I used the smaller new kit motor in a 1/32 '32 Ford back in 2016, and it looked pretty scale correct for 1/32.

I am really glad to see you are are still ongoing with this project of yours. 

Thanks for your interest and comment. Your little '32 looks great with that engine. Perfect recipient for it. 

[Force]

The engine in the Ala Kart is a Dodge and one have to remember that a Dodge Hemi is smaller than both DeSoto and Chrysler Hemi, so it should be a bit on the tiny side...but not as tiny as the engine in the new kit.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Force