Max 2K Clearcoat Gone Wrong

[gijoe]

4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The "two-part" clear in question isn't. It's a pre-mixed rattlecan product that contains the same isocyanates used in hardeners in real two-part products that have to be mixed prior to application.

The problems the OP has in his photos look very much like a reaction to surface contamination in some places, almost mimicking the dreaded "fisheyes" you get when you have contamination from silicone, wax, or in some cases, even skin oils.

I think it looks like surface contamination as well (at least in some spots).  Was the body cleaned after the decals were applied?  I don't know the clear coat that was used, so I can't rule out that it was at least partially responsible, but it looks to me like you sprayed an oily body.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, gman said:

 

It suggests there is a separate compartment in the can that has to be activated after initial shaking to mix the separated components (the hardener part) inside the can for use. I was trying to post a link to the user .pdf from the manufacturer's website, but it posts as an image of the page header.

spraymax.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Downloads/Produkte/Prospekte/992466-SprayMax-Produktfolder_USA.pdf

^^ try this with "www." inserted in front of the text to read manufacturer's instructions

I stand corrected. It is indeed a true "two-part" aerosol product.    Thank you.

The reason I discounted this is because the market has been previously awash with products labeled "2K" or some such that clearly were not, and were only cashing in on the term as a marketing ploy. The text below is copied directly from the user instructions:

"Definition SprayMax 2-Component technology • SprayMax 2-component technology means 2 components, paint and hardener, in one spray paint can • The hardener is integrated in a separate container • The hardener is activated or released with the push of a button and mixed with the paint material • The SprayMax 2K technology guarantees highest product and work quality just like with a spray gun in a paint shop 2K Operating Instructions

1. Check the item. Determine, whether you have the right product. If you accidently activate the wrong product, the can is useless if you do not use it or after the pot life expires.

2. Before activating, shake the can vigorously for 2 min., starting from the time you first hear the mixing balls.

3. Take the red pressure button from the cap and place it on the pin on the bottom of the can without jamming. Place the can with the cap on the bottom on firm, level ground.

4. Activate the can. Activate the can with even, vertical pressure. Listen for the clicking sound. Only push once.

5. Immediately dispose of the red activation button so you know which can has already been activated when you use several cans.

6. Write the activation date and time in the “activated on“ field on the can. The pot life indicated on the Technical Data Sheets applies to 68°F (20°C) ambient tempera- ture. The pot life varies depending on the ambient temperature. Lower temperatures increase, higher temperatures decrease the pot life.

7. Shake the can vigorously for 2 min., starting from the time you first hear the mixing balls.

8. Do a test spray pattern and check the product. Ensure that the nozzle is clean and sprays evenly during test spraying. Check the color if you use color tone cans.

9. Clean the valve. When you are finished working you must empty the valve with the spray head pointing downwards. Spray until only propellant leaves the nozzle."

Edited May 6, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[peteski]

That is some fancy spray can!  I wonder if the results we see is the hardener not properly mixing with the paint as it leaves the nozzle?  Too fancy for me.

[gman]

It IS a fancy spray can.

One night I was perusing youtube airbrushing and painting videos, and there were a few 2K clear two-part paints in a can (like this one) being talked about. I am intrigued by the possibility, but after OP's pictures am a little leery to put all of that work into a model to have the product not perform properly. 

[Oldcarfan27]

WORD OF CAUTION TO ALL!

2 part catalyzed paints are for professional use only and as such they MUST be used with a breathing respirator!!!

If this paint dries hard as a rock on the car, imagine what it can do to your lungs if you breathe it in. And you can't use brake fluid to remove it, either. 

I've heard of people developing breathing problems, emphysema or WORSE? due to using these kind of paints without proper protection. And never spray them indoors or in an enclosed area.

Be smart - be safe!

Edited May 8, 2019 by Oldcarfan27

[StevenGuthmiller]

28 minutes ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

WORD OF CAUTION TO ALL!

2 part catalyzed paints are for professional use only and as such they MUST be used with a breathing respirator!!!

If this paint dries hard as a rock on the car, imagine what it can do to your lungs if you breathe it in. And you can't use brake fluid to remove it, either. 

I've heard of people developing breathing problems, emphysema or WORSE? due to using these kind of paints without proper protection. And never spray them indoors or in an enclosed area.

Be smart - be safe!

That clinches it for me.

Not worth it.

There are other clears available.

 

 

Steve

[Matt Bacon]

I'd second the part about protecting yourself. I airbrush 2K clear, and it requires a spray booth, respirator and protective gloves. IMHO, it's worth the hassle for the quality of finish you get. It may be a clever can, but since 90% of the hassle in using 2K is protecting yourself and your environment, it doesn't seem to be worth having in a can, since you lose all the subtle control you have with an airbrush to get that glass like finish. And secondly, once the two parts of the clear are mixed, you have a pretty short window (maybe 20-30 minutes) when it's usable. I guess the can somehow mixes the components as they spray, but even so once they've started to come into contact, I can't believe an activated and part-used can has much of a shelf life...

best,

M.

[69NovaYenko]

On 5/6/2019 at 4:00 PM, gijoe said:

I think it looks like surface contamination as well (at least in some spots).  Was the body cleaned after the decals were applied?

Yes, the body was washed and sety aside tio dry for 72 hours before clear-coat was applied.

[Len Woodruff]

91% Alcohol will remove urethane clears.

[Dave G.]

2 part catalyzed paints are why I got out of painting 1/1, when we had to start wearing suits and pressurized fresh air masks, actually helmets really. I decided this is really the limit, I'm done. We were warned to not even trust face respirators because if this stuff gets in your lungs it catalyzes there just as well as on the finished vehicle. And this is minus talking about just chemicals absorbed through skin.  So no thanks for me, I'm not dragging  that stuff home and you couldn't pay me enough to spray it.  I already quit that habit. To me old fashioned enamel is the limit now and really acrylic model paints are getting better all the time so I don't shoot much enamel either.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Dave G.

[Harpo]

There doesn't seem to be a lot about troubleshooting Spray Max 2k on the net, but I did find a similar failure in this post on a pinball machine forum.  There are a couple other fails in the same thread, but no one seems have any definitive answers.  Best guesses are temperature and surface prep.

I understand why some folks want to use these products, but personally part of the attraction of car modeling for me is acrylic paints I can spray indoors.  I've had very good success with Createx 5604 Gloss Top Coat, both with and without 4030 Mix Additive.  It's a little slow to dry (dehydrator helps a lot), but it's nearly impossible to run and once dry can be sanded/recoated/polished easily.  I use Meguiar's PlastX for the final polish, overall gloss and depth are excellent in my opinion.

I feel your pain, I've had some finish failures that made me want to chuck the whole kit in the bin.  That's another reason I'm a big fan of water-based products, they tend to be very forgiving.  I have yet to screw anything up beyond repair using the Createx products mentioned above.

 

 

[Bill J]

Scalefinishes has two main types of paint, one is lacquer that dries dull and the other is an acrylic enamel that dries glossy. Some colors are offered in both paint choices, some are only in one or the other. Both the paints are full size automotive paints. Naturally the enamel takes longer to cure, although usually not at all like the model enamel paints, which cure very slowly. There are some factors to all paints and that is age, amount of thinner mixed in and of course, the paint itself. I prefer not to clear coat, in my experience it gives you one more chance to ruin the paint job. I am sure we have all had this happen on occasion.

My first hand experience with a common clear coat over a Scalefinishes enamel is not as drastic as the OP's Charger but I did get some weird cracking in the clear. The Scalefinishes enamel had been left alone for at least 3 weeks and then polished with Novus polishes. All was fine. I applied some laser printed decals and felt the need to clear coat over them, both to protect and to add a glossy finish. The clear went on fine and only developed a cracked look after about a day. The car was a 2-tone, one paint was Tamiya lacquer and the other was the Scalefinishes acrylic enamel. There was no reaction to the Tamiya paint and a cracking above the Scalefinishes paint.

I have to add that I really like the Scalefinishes paint, the acrylic enamel. I rarely apply any clear coats to any paint job and usually test using a plastic spoon or some spare plastic. I have had trouble with every clear coating and I have had good results with clear coating. Hit or miss, pretty much. I had a fine spider webbing all over a car that was painted with Testor's enamel and cured for 5+ YEARS, then cleared with Tamiya TS-13 and it spider webbed.

Testing is the answer to avoid problems. Always expect enamel to cure slowly and try not to use clears that are 'hotter" than the paint below. I also suggest asking the vender that makes the paint what the best cleat coat would be.

[eksine]

On 5/8/2019 at 12:57 PM, Len Woodruff said:

91% Alcohol will remove urethane clears.

No it won't 2K clear has an activator, alcohol will do very little to this type of clearcoat

[eksine]

I've been learning about painting cars for a while so I know the basics. There's a lot of misinformation here. #1 yes this is for professional use so anybody who didn't know you need an organic vapor rated respirator with unexpired cartridges should not be using 2K paint. Those cartridges DO HAVE a limited number of hours of use depending on your climate. put it in a ziplock when not in use to extend the life. The clearcoat will enter your lungs and will cause massive damage. That's not the worst of it, 2K paint has a chemical in it (I forgot the name) but it's basically like radiation, if you breath in those fumes enough without proper ventilation or filtration you will literally drop dead from accumulation. And yes you need proper ventilation as well as you should have a proper spray booth to minimize the dust on the finish, but for modeling I don't know if you can get away with not using one. 

Anyways the problem looks like an adverse chemical reaction from whatever basecoat was underneath the clearcoat. Spray Max 2k is the only spray can I've heard of that's equal to real 2K paint from the automotive paint store. it's always smart to create a test panel, go to any hardware store and take some sample paint color cards or get some from the auto paint store. you could also use any magazine or packaging that has graphics on it because they usually have colored ink on it that would work, you don't want to use anything porous like printer paper, something flat textured and non-porous would work. also 2K has a finishing step where you wet sand the clearcoat with a high grit like say 800-3000 grit and using a polishing cream like meguiars. there's also a flattener you can mix with it to get a flatter finish. Anyways please don't mess with this stuff unless you do proper research. I think 2K should be superior to whatever you guys use normally at least for  metallics because unlike your normal paints 2K has metallic flakes in some paints and the hardness is harder. 2K also has the option for candy which is just the basecoat and clear mixed, but I'm sure you could do that with normal paint. actually the metal flakes are sold separately too so maybe you can mix the flakes in with your lacquers or acrylic paints you guys use.

also you could have stripped the whole thing using "aircraft stripper" , the hardware store also has strippers that will work but I have tried many and only a couple are able to actually strip 2K . the best one I remember was from "kleen strip" I think it was called

Edited June 28, 2021 by eksine

[eksine]

On 5/8/2019 at 7:02 AM, Matt Bacon said:

I'd second the part about protecting yourself. I airbrush 2K clear, and it requires a spray booth, respirator and protective gloves. IMHO, it's worth the hassle for the quality of finish you get. It may be a clever can, but since 90% of the hassle in using 2K is protecting yourself and your environment, it doesn't seem to be worth having in a can, since you lose all the subtle control you have with an airbrush to get that glass like finish. And secondly, once the two parts of the clear are mixed, you have a pretty short window (maybe 20-30 minutes) when it's usable. I guess the can somehow mixes the components as they spray, but even so once they've started to come into contact, I can't believe an activated and part-used can has much of a shelf life...

best,

M.

30 minutes seems too little to me even for the spray can, but just to clarify if you guys use regular 1 gallon 2K clearcoat it costs about $100-150 for the cheaper stuff and has a shelf life of I think a few hours, maybe 2-3, but yes for the most part use it within an hour would be better. if you thin it ,which some people do not know about, you can thin it ,however I wasted several thousands of dollars on bad advice from the ignorant sales lady at the paint store. there is a brand in a yellow can which has a chemical in it like paint stripper, it causes adverse reactions to other paint brands if you use it. this was a problem that spanned several years so to make it short, try to use valspar or other quality brands. also if you can do not use PPG basecoat and for clearcoat the best deal is tamco paint. their clearcoat is like 2-4 times cheaper than any one else's but the same high quality

also the thinner used needs to be in the same brand line, you simply use the reducer, the same product used for the basecoat reducer

Edited June 28, 2021 by eksine

[peteski]

2 hours ago, eksine said:

also you could have stripped the whole thing using "aircraft stripper" , the hardware store also has strippers that will work but I have tried many and only a couple are able to actually strip 2K . the best one I remember was from "kleen strip" I think it was called

That will work if the model is a metal diecast, but  I'm pretty sure that if the model is plastic or resin, Aircraft Stripper will melt the body!  Only plastic safe strippers should be used on plastic, and resin might be even more troublesome.

[Rick L]

That is an extremely unusual looking reaction you have there. I’m sorry to hear of all the prep work you did to see this happen. There are many options here for a fix but I think we need to look at the cause of the problem. I remember years ago we had a novice employee paint a finished architectural model after eating a pizza and it looked a lot like your model. So may I ask if you had by chance handled it with something greasy or polish before topcoat? 
  

[StevenGuthmiller]

8 hours ago, eksine said:

I've been learning about painting cars for a while so I know the basics. There's a lot of misinformation here. #1 yes this is for professional use so anybody who didn't know you need an organic vapor rated respirator with unexpired cartridges should not be using 2K paint. Those cartridges DO HAVE a limited number of hours of use depending on your climate. put it in a ziplock when not in use to extend the life. The clearcoat will enter your lungs and will cause massive damage. That's not the worst of it, 2K paint has a chemical in it (I forgot the name) but it's basically like radiation, if you breath in those fumes enough without proper ventilation or filtration you will literally drop dead from accumulation. And yes you need proper ventilation as well as you should have a proper spray booth to minimize the dust on the finish, but for modeling I don't know if you can get away with not using one.

Sounds like a perfect reason to stay away from 2K clear altogether.

Thank you!

That's all that I needed to hear.

 

 

 

Steve