THarrison351 Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Casey said: What is the reasoning behind them? Ground clearance for damage prevention from poorly maintained dirt tracks? 180 headers optimize the exhaust pulse from the cylinders. The headers allow you to match to an exhaust port that is in a better position of the power/exhaust cycle to help "scavenge", meaning to help pull forward the exhaust gasses from the opposing cylinder which in turn creates a cleaner, more HP producing combustion in the next cycle. The reason they run over top of the engine is two things. First as you can see, the pipes have to run side to side in order to get the exhaust to meet the opposite 180 degree collector. Second, If they ran under the engine the engine would be raised, giving a higher CG and screwing up the handling. Some NASCAR teams experimented with 180 degree headers and all the early Monogram NASCAR GM cars had these on them. The NASCAR cars can get away with running the pipes under the the engine because of the dry sump oil pan.
Rusty92 Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, THarrison351 said: 180 headers optimize the exhaust pulse from the cylinders. The headers allow you to match to an exhaust port that is in a better position of the power/exhaust cycle to help "scavenge", meaning to help pull forward the exhaust gasses from the opposing cylinder which in turn creates a cleaner, more HP producing combustion in the next cycle. The reason they run over top of the engine is two things. First as you can see, the pipes have to run side to side in order to get the exhaust to meet the opposite 180 degree collector. Second, If they ran under the engine the engine would be raised, giving a higher CG and screwing up the handling. Some NASCAR teams experimented with 180 degree headers and all the early Monogram NASCAR GM cars had these on them. The NASCAR cars can get away with running the pipes under the the engine because of the dry sump oil pan. This was some excellent information. Thank you for sharing. 1
kermn8r Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, THarrison351 said: 180 headers optimize the exhaust pulse from the cylinders. The headers allow you to match to an exhaust port that is in a better position of the power/exhaust cycle to help "scavenge", meaning to help pull forward the exhaust gasses from the opposing cylinder which in turn creates a cleaner, more HP producing combustion in the next cycle. The reason they run over top of the engine is two things. First as you can see, the pipes have to run side to side in order to get the exhaust to meet the opposite 180 degree collector. Second, If they ran under the engine the engine would be raised, giving a higher CG and screwing up the handling. Some NASCAR teams experimented with 180 degree headers and all the early Monogram NASCAR GM cars had these on them. The NASCAR cars can get away with running the pipes under the the engine because of the dry sump oil pan. Sorry if this is getting off topic, but following the exhaust pipes on the GT40 "bundle of snakes" shows pipes from both cylinder banks routed to the same collector. Are these also 180 degree headers? Edited February 5, 2021 by kermn8r
afx Posted February 5, 2021 Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) Look closely at this set (posted earlier) and you will see that pipes from opposite sides connect to the same collector. The kit headers are not designed this way, I'm sure for simplicity. Edited February 5, 2021 by afx
THarrison351 Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 22 hours ago, kermn8r said: Sorry if this is getting off topic, but following the exhaust pipes on the GT40 "bundle of snakes" shows pipes from both cylinder banks routed to the same collector. Are these also 180 degree headers? If memory serves me correctly, yes. It also has something to do with the flat plane crankshaft better explained here.
R.J Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 Did all 4 of these kits have the same chassis in them or were they kit specific? Thanks.
Mark Posted February 6, 2021 Posted February 6, 2021 There were six kits in the series, all had the same chassis but some kits had one type of rear suspension while the rest had another type.
RickyD Posted February 19, 2021 Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) The great thing about the Super Stocker kits is that the chassis has an adjustable wheelbase and can be adapted to fit under just about any body that you'd care to use with it. Converting the 180-degree exhaust system to a conventional under-car one is extremely easy, too. Edited February 19, 2021 by RickyD
Dave Van Posted February 19, 2021 Posted February 19, 2021 42 minutes ago, RickyD said: The great thing about the Super Stocker kits is that the chassis has an adjustable wheelbase and can be adapted to fit under just about any body that you'd care to use with it. Converting the 180-degree exhaust system to a conventional under-car one is extremely easy, too. The Super Stockers do have a 2 part chassis but it is different, very different that the MPC 'CUP' chassis version. As stated it has leaf springs and trailing arms for the rear and a more modern roll cage. you can adapt standard headeers to the kit with a little work for a more conventional layout. 180 headers were not legal in any series that ran in the Carolinas in the 70's.
Run8Racing Posted March 16, 2021 Posted March 16, 2021 Absolutely LOVE these cars !!! I have all but the Barracuda waiting to be built. These are not cheap or easy to find. If you find one, get it...or I will !!! Paid $225 for the Mustang last month. For a little more info, cars that use these headers did not have a right side floor or firewall. These kits have a generic big block, as did the old MPC Cup cars. When I finally build 'em, I will fix that !!! The rear suspensions can be done a million ways. Do it "right", and the Camaro and Mustang will have leaf springs, Chevelle and Monte Carlo will have coils, etc. Of course, these are NOT stock chassis so you can change it up. Back then, some teams ran both. Someone mentioned using other bodies. I have a Nova, Ventura, and Cougar all waiting for one of my spare chassis. Definitely need to find a Javelin !!! Although these kits are dirt cars, some of the real ones were NOT !!! The Camaro and Mustang raced on pavement. The Chevelle was a dirt car, saw him race at Kankakee, Sycamore, and Fairbury, IL. The 'Cuda was a USAC team, they ran both. The GTO and Monte Carlo are not familiar to me. With aftermarket wheels and tires, you can go either way and be "right" !!! Mine will be dirt cars... because I said so !!! If you have never built one of these, you HAVE to get the GTO when it's available. I'm getting at least two, just to have the chassis !!!
TarheelRick Posted March 16, 2021 Posted March 16, 2021 One other thing that has not been mentioned about those 180 degree headers is their sound is undeniable. A full race program of those cars on the track at one time will make goose-bumps all over your body. Really an incredible sound.
Draggon Posted March 16, 2021 Posted March 16, 2021 1 hour ago, TarheelRick said: One other thing that has not been mentioned about those 180 degree headers is their sound is undeniable. A full race program of those cars on the track at one time will make goose-bumps all over your body. Really an incredible sound. That's for sure! More like the lovely flat sound of a Ferrari, nothing like a v8.
afx Posted March 16, 2021 Posted March 16, 2021 8 hours ago, Run8Racing said: Absolutely LOVE these cars !!! I have all but the Barracuda waiting to be built. These are not cheap or easy to find. If you find one, get it...or I will !!! Paid $225 for the Mustang last month. For a little more info, cars that use these headers did not have a right side floor or firewall. These kits have a generic big block, as did the old MPC Cup cars. When I finally build 'em, I will fix that !!! The rear suspensions can be done a million ways. Do it "right", and the Camaro and Mustang will have leaf springs, Chevelle and Monte Carlo will have coils, etc. Of course, these are NOT stock chassis so you can change it up. Back then, some teams ran both. Someone mentioned using other bodies. I have a Nova, Ventura, and Cougar all waiting for one of my spare chassis. Definitely need to find a Javelin !!! Although these kits are dirt cars, some of the real ones were NOT !!! The Camaro and Mustang raced on pavement. The Chevelle was a dirt car, saw him race at Kankakee, Sycamore, and Fairbury, IL. The 'Cuda was a USAC team, they ran both. The GTO and Monte Carlo are not familiar to me. With aftermarket wheels and tires, you can go either way and be "right" !!! Mine will be dirt cars... because I said so !!! If you have never built one of these, you HAVE to get the GTO when it's available. I'm getting at least two, just to have the chassis !!! PM sent.
Mr. Metallic Posted March 17, 2021 Posted March 17, 2021 Great, another kit series to be on the hunt for. When i've seen these kits in the past I didn't pay much attention to them because they don't fit in my typical area of interest. But after seeing that wild exhaust treatment, the overall good looking amount of detail, coupled with the aggressive stance and body mods I now will have to keep my eyes out for one. The price will probably keep me out (except the GTO or Monte) but if I had my choice I'd really like to have the Camaro out of all of them.
stavanzer Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 I wonder if Chris (HPI-Guy)will be getting one?
slusher Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 Is that the one where the headers run thru the inside of the car?
VW93 Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, slusher said: Is that the one where the headers run thru the inside of the car? Looks like they do. Pic from the Auto World store. Will have to get a couple of these. https://www.autoworldstore.com/products/pre-order-mpc-1970-pontiac-gto-super-stocker-1-25-scale-model-kit-due-march-2021 Edited March 20, 2021 by VW93 added link
ChrisBcritter Posted March 21, 2021 Posted March 21, 2021 18 hours ago, alexis said: I wonder if Chris (HPI-Guy)will be getting one? This other Chris will!
stavanzer Posted March 21, 2021 Posted March 21, 2021 Great Chris! You think you'll be able to post photos?
slusher Posted March 21, 2021 Posted March 21, 2021 23 hours ago, alexis said: I wonder if Chris (HPI-Guy)will be getting one? More then likely.
Casey Posted April 2, 2021 Author Posted April 2, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 10:16 AM, alexis said: I wonder if Chris (HPI-Guy)will be getting one? Wonder no more. ?
the other Mike S. Posted April 2, 2021 Posted April 2, 2021 Looking at that '70 GTO stocker makes me wonder what happened to the AMT/Ertl '70 GTO that was released back in the mid '80's. It had a separate front clip and could be built stock. After over 30+ years, I think it's ripe for a reissue IMHO.
Casey Posted April 2, 2021 Author Posted April 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, the other Mike S. said: Looking at that '70 GTO stocker makes me wonder what happened to the AMT/Ertl '70 GTO that was released back in the mid '80's. It had a separate front clip and could be built stock. After over 30+ years, I think it's ripe for a reissue IMHO. I hope someone starts a new topic for the MPC '70 GTO kits, and it's various and assorted iterations, as the details have been mentioned here on the forum, but they're scattered across multiple topics in different sections. It would be nice to have all the pertinent replies (mostly Mark B's) in one place for convenient reference.
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