'49 Merc - Engine?

[CountryJoe]

I'm building a '49 Merc that has been extensively modified. 

I was told that a 427 SOHC engine would be a good choice to fill the engine bay. I was fortunate enough to come across a "427 Boss" and a "427 fe". Now, since I know nothing about cars... i was wondering what the difference is and would one be a better choice over the other?

This is what I have so far on the Merc

 

[Dave G.]

Boss 427 is modern techno talk for a stroker Boss 351 done up as a 427. The 427 FE is one of the Ford factory legends but not a so called cammer, it's a push rod engine. Came in a few iterations and configurations.

[Bucky]

Either one should be a potent source of energy for the Merc. I'd say, if it fits in the engine bay, go for it. 

[CountryJoe]

Thanks guys... I've done enough work on this thing already -  I'll make it fit if it doesn't!!!!

[Dave G.]

2 minutes ago, CountryJoe said:

Thanks guys... I've done enough work on this thing already -  I'll make it fit if it doesn't!!!!

I imagine the biggest issue would be the front sump oil pan and Mercs cross member,steering links etc.. But if it helps plenty of FE engine builders in the day did a rear sump conversion just fwiw. Fe engines in heavy trucks too had a long pickup from the front oil pump more rearward reaching. I know I worked on enough of them. A big Part of keeping the performance FE alive was keeping it oiled. On my own Mustang with 390 FE I opted to go down with the front sump which added 3 quarts of oil. Then drop some holly carb jets in the rocker arm feeder holes to restrict oil flow up top ( 1970's trickery to keep the valve covers from robbing oil to cam and crank in a nose high launch at the track at 6200 rpm lol). 5800-6000 is safer but they still needed oil. These weren't 8000 rpm engines, bore to stroke ratio was wrong for that but they had tons of grunt for the launch for it's day.

[Zippi]

Good looking work on that Marc so far.

[CountryJoe]

Thanks Dave, I figure it's only a model so I can pretty much do as I please with it... not really concerned with how much oil it holds - but good information all the same

[CountryJoe]

Zippi, I can't even remember anymore what my initial intention was with this car... all I know is that it wasn't this. ?

Edited August 11, 2021 by CountryJoe

[EngineerBob]

CountryJoe, as DaveG mentioned a "boss 427" is a relatively modern Ford 351 small block engine stroked to 427 cu in while the 427 FE is a vintage big block engine which came in a number of different cu in sizes. If you have accurately scaled engines then the FE should be physically larger on the outside even though they are both 427 cu in. If you want a physically large Ford engine then consider a Boss 429 (the hemi-head version) or a 427 SOHC, they both have big blocks but very large heads. Or if you really want to be large and different then try a vintage 331 hemi with six carbs on a log manifold.

[Rodent]

I am not sure that a Boss 429 or a 427 SOHC would fit in a 49 Merc without some major changes to the frame and front suspension, in 1:1 or 1 25th scale. The stock upper control arms are pretty close together and I don't think there would be room for headers/manifolds. I attempted to fit a Coyote into an AMT '57 Ford and the cylinder heads were resting on the upper control arms in that case as well.

Michael, Dave's point on the oil pan is valid. An FE with a front sump won't fit because the front crossmember is designed for a rear sump. Pan and crossmember can't occupy the same space at the same time. You can just glue the pan on backwards and say that it has been modified to a rear sump.

[Dave G.]

41 minutes ago, CountryJoe said:

Zippi, I can't even remember anymore what my initial intention was with this car... all I know is that it wasn't this. ?

,Hah, I have a 49 Ford in the same situation, though not chopped and all.But it just got out of hand non the less lol !

[Paul Payne]

Of course another option would be a flathead with Ardun heads.

[Plowboy]

You could also stick a big block Chevy in it. This is the engine from the Foose Caddy. I used to be very anti Chevy in a Ford. But, sometimes it's the easier option. 

 

[Dave G.]

8 hours ago, Plowboy said:

You could also stick a big block Chevy in it. This is the engine from the Foose Caddy. I used to be very anti Chevy in a Ford. But, sometimes it's the easier option. 

 

Ouch, I had drive the demons out of my house when I read this lol !! Seriously looks great in there. But I really like the idea of the FE, only because I built so many in 1/1 and raced with a couple of them back in my day in the drag race apple cart. As long as it's not the typical Chevy small block that is so common it's boring even though a great engine ( I've built my share of those too in my time).

The red stripes on the engine kill me,that's touch I wouldn't even attempt. Nice clean build !

[CountryJoe]

Thanks for all the input guys!!!

   Unfortunately, I basically know enough about cars to know which pedal to step on to make it stop or go. But I do like the Rodents idea about just flipping the oil pan around. still waiting on the engines to show up in the mail {supposed to be today} ... then I'll see what I have.

[Dave G.]

13 minutes ago, CountryJoe said:

Thanks for all the input guys!!!

   Unfortunately, I basically know enough about cars to know which pedal to step on to make it stop or go. But I do like the Rodents idea about just flipping the oil pan around. still waiting on the engines to show up in the mail {supposed to be today} ... then I'll see what I have.

Well as I said, rear sump oil pans were used. So was external oiling on certain iterations ( couple of hoses out the side to an oil tank). So if you turn the pan around don't let someone tell you it's wrong.

The FE should be a nice fit.

[espo]

It's only plastic so use the Ford engine of choice and due a 180 with the oil pan to give you clearance on the cross member and call it good. I like the body work here. 

[Plowboy]

3 hours ago, Dave G. said:

The red stripes on the engine kill me,that's touch I wouldn't even attempt. Nice clean build !

Thanx! Those are decals. So, anyone can do it.

[Dave G.]

2 hours ago, Plowboy said:

Thanx! Those are decals. So, anyone can do it.

I wondered but nice job anyway, cause we all know decals don't always lay down perfectly either.  I'm not even a 49 Merc fan and like it. I did build one many moons ago but as I recall used the flathead.

[CountryJoe]

Engines showed up today: a "429 Boss" and a "427 FE". The blocks seen to be about the same size... not to worried about the top of the engine right now as I have to come up with some kind of a workable intake because of the hood modifications... not sure what I'm gonna do there yet.

[Dave G.]

I don't have the kit in front of me but I'd think there would be plenty of room for a quad or dual quad setup on a standard riser manifold.

[bill-e-boy]

If it is the AMT Merc it came with a big block Mopar engine as an option to the flathead motor. So thinking along these lines an FE should fit OK and the Boss 427 which are as big in real life as an FE should OK too

The old story - dump a chebbie into a Ford or anything else but a Mopar - but a Mopar can go into anything. A good rule to remember lol

 

[Sledsel]

1 hour ago, bill-e-boy said:

If it is the AMT Merc it came with a big block Mopar engine as an option to the flathead motor. So thinking along these lines an FE should fit OK and the Boss 427 which are as big in real life as an FE should OK too

The old story - dump a chebbie into a Ford or anything else but a Mopar - but a Mopar can go into anything. A good rule to remember lol

 

 I for one can see it is the Revell Merc, and as for engine, the FE is a great choice over the ho-hum "everyone does a Chevy" thought. Kit-wise I would recommend the Foose/Roush engine from the 56 Ford truck, Revell 64 Thunderbolt engine (this gives option of automatic or 4 speed) or the Moebius 427 from the 65 Cyclone. All these can be found on Ebay.

As an FYI, there was never a 427 Boss..... but there was the 427 SOHC (Moebius Cyclone) For those that do not know, this is an FE also, just with overhead cams.

The Boss 429 is a 385 series engine (429/460)

 

Foose/Roush engine

Revell Thundebolt 427

65 Cyclone SOHC  

Edited August 13, 2021 by Sledsel

[Dave G.]

SOHC got banned at Nascar back in the day. So they beat half or more of the competition anyway with the pushrod engines. Nascar also banned the Ford 427 pushrod high rise iteration, so they did it with medium rise. Heck the 406 Ford was mopping up before that. It was Ford or Chrysler hemis back and forth race after race. The over head cam would have totally mopped up thus the banning.

Chevy back then mostly blew up at nascar. Ran great till they popped. But eventually the CID restriction came in and leveled all the playing field.

[Big John]

Sweet Machine Joe!  I'd go with the 427 SOHC too you certainly have enough room under the hood, maybe with duel turbos.  I once stuffed a Potvin blown 427 into a Opal GT with wicked results.  Look forward to seeing whatever you do!