Round 2 November 2022 Product Spotlight

[SteveG]

11 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

I've been pining for a Colonnade in styrene for over 30 years! Personally, I'd like to see two engine options (350 L82 and LS4 454) and two transmission options (4-speed and TH-400).

Personally, I'm all for doing new Colonnade subject matter.  However, there's always a ton of challenges when creating all brand-new tooling of vintage cars.  Go through the threads on any of the Moebius new tooling and you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg of what's required to get these types of projects done. 

-Steve

[TonyK]

I like to build something different every so often and that Star Trek kit looks like it would be fun. The figures are what makes the kit worth it.

[Motor City]

9 hours ago, SteveG said:

Personally, I'm all for doing new Colonnade subject matter.  However, there's always a ton of challenges when creating all brand-new tooling of vintage cars.  Go through the threads on any of the Moebius new tooling and you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg of what's required to get these types of projects done. 

-Steve

Steve,

Maybe Round2 can make an offer to buy the assets and name of Johan/Jo-Han Models since Okey Spaulding hasn't done a lot with it.  They made the '73-'75 Cutlass coupe, though only the '73 was an accurate model.  You'd have the chassis, interior, and could make the '73 442 body, hood, and then a Cutlass Supreme coupe body as a starting point.   

[Oldcarfan27]

16 hours ago, SteveG said:

Personally, I'm all for doing new Colonnade subject matter.  However, there's always a ton of challenges when creating all brand-new tooling of vintage cars.  Go through the threads on any of the Moebius new tooling and you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg of what's required to get these types of projects done. 

-Steve

I'd be happy with promo-style kits, similar to the Snap Fast line or snapper kits like Revell's Monte Carlo. Low parts count, as long as the details are correct, curbside wouldn't bother me.

This would make a great series. Popular cars of the 70s with multiple versions. Some could have separate noses and bumpers for various years.

Here's what I'd propose:

"Quick Build cars of the 70s"

1) 73-77 Chevy Malibu/Laguna or S3. Or even a BETTER Monte Carlo!

2) 77-79 Thunderbird. 

3) 69-72 Lincoln Continental Mark lll

4) 77-79 Lincoln Continental Mark V.

5) 79-85 Cadillac Eldorado.

6) 76-78 Cadillac Seville.

7) 75-78 Chrysler Cordoba/Charger/300/Magnum XE.

? 71-77 Chevy Kingswood Estate wagon

9) 75 Dodge Monaco sedan (police/Blues Brothers)

10) Dodge Diplomat or St. Regis (police/taxi/fire chief)

Think back to the 60s, when promos dictated subject matter.  Keep the parts count low. Make them simple kits, promo style with wire axles to attract new and younger builders. Make them playable. Make the price affordable (20-25) as an entry level series.

Plan to sell to both new and experienced builders, choose interesting, unique subject matter and avoid cartoon, caricature cars - market too limited. Most of all, start with stock versions and add custom parts like wheels, decals and light bars.

[Luc Janssens]

23 hours ago, SteveG said:

Personally, I'm all for doing new Colonnade subject matter.  However, there's always a ton of challenges when creating all brand-new tooling of vintage cars.  Go through the threads on any of the Moebius new tooling and you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg of what's required to get these types of projects done. 

-Steve

Indeed, but with the help of 3D scanning, it becomes a lot less "guessing/interpreting" photo's and ruler measurements (which don't capture everthing), thus you will end up with exact data of the "skin" of whatever car or truck one wishes to replicate in scale.

Also with that data, ones a certain model kit is tooled, one can expand it into a series of siblings much easier just because one started with exact data and that years into the future.

But, the proof of eating the pudding will be.... the upcoming Revell '71 Mustang.... 

PS: my favorite Colonnade sibling is the '76 Olds Cutlass Supreme coupe, Yeah...I'm somewhat the odd one out

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Luc Janssens

[Motor City]

1973 442 and 1976 Regal S/R:

[Rob Hall]

5 hours ago, Luc Janssens said:

Indeed, but with the help of 3D scanning, it becomes a lot less "guessing/interpreting" photo's and ruler measurements (which don't capture everthing), thus you will end up with exact data of the "skin" of whatever car or truck one wishes to replicate in scale.

Also with that data, ones a certain model kit is tooled, one can expand it into a series of siblings much easier just because one started with exact data and that years into the future.

But, the proof of eating the pudding will be.... the upcoming Revell '71 Mustang.... 

PS: my favorite Colonnade sibling is the '76 Olds Cutlass Supreme coupe, Yeah...I'm somewhat the odd one out

 

 

I think that was one of the largest selling cars in the US at one time.  Robert Burns' Too Many Projects is a good source for 3D printed colonnades.

[Joe Nunes]

Bought a new 1977 Buick Regal, white with the green interior and half frost green vinyl top (don’t recall the exact color names). Best car I ever bought and I would sure enjoy making a model of it for old times sake. 
Joe

[SteveG]

16 hours ago, Motor City said:

Steve,

Maybe Round2 can make an offer to buy the assets and name of Johan/Jo-Han Models since Okey Spaulding hasn't done a lot with it.  They made the '73-'75 Cutlass coupe, though only the '73 was an accurate model.  You'd have the chassis, interior, and could make the '73 442 body, hood, and then a Cutlass Supreme coupe body as a starting point.   

Those old Johan molds are difficult to work with, even if we could locate them again.  The better option would be to find an original 73 Olds Cutlass promo and reverse engineer it.  It's much easier to alter it digitally after that.  That would fit in with what we're already doing.  

-Steve

[niteowl7710]

18 minutes ago, SteveG said:

Those old Johan molds are difficult to work with, even if we could locate them again.  The better option would be to find an original 73 Olds Cutlass promo and reverse engineer it.  It's much easier to alter it digitally after that.  That would fit in with what we're already doing.  

-Steve

To further what Steve is saying, I don't believe Okey is in control of that mold in the first place as it was one of the supposed projects of the short lived and ill-fated "Illinois Model Company" concept that existed over a decade ago (wow time flies).  There's no telling where that tooling is at this point, and those JoHan tools are famous for not fitting easily into any known injection molding machine at this point.

Edited November 5, 2022 by niteowl7710

[tim boyd]

Also, the interior seat sew style of the Jo-Han '73 Cutlass promo is wrong.  I had stockpiled two of those, intending to do a full detail model (with the Revell '72 442 455 engine and the Revell Snap-Tite '77 Monte Carlo chassis) but after starting research and looking the brochure and real cars, noticed the model was wrong.  Probably was a late breaking change just before production of the 1/1, given that Jo-Han promos back then were pretty accurate overall.  TB 

[Plowboy]

What would the difference in cost between reverse engineering/making corrections vs. digital scanning a real car? It can't be that expensive to digitally scan a real car. Revell has proven that it works and seems to have adopted the procedure.  

[Motor City]

My thought was to reverse engineer whatever is correct on the promo, then create 3D files so you could use the latest injection molding technology.  Scanning a real car would be even better.  

[SteveG]

1 hour ago, Plowboy said:

What would the difference in cost between reverse engineering/making corrections vs. digital scanning a real car? It can't be that expensive to digitally scan a real car. Revell has proven that it works and seems to have adopted the procedure.  

Assuming we can get a willing classic car owner, their car and third party with the proper equipment all together to create the necessary 3D data for us. that's one expense.  Then that data has to go to our tooling and design vendor to convert it into the individual files to make each part one by one, similar to when we get manufacturer's data.  That's another expense.  It took close to a year to take Ford's data to get an acceptable 3D printed mockup of a buildable model of the new Bronco, and it's a curbside design.  The full detail Dodge Chargers took even longer. 

I can now take an existing promo model, send it straight over to our tooling and design vendor and have a 3D printed mockup back to review in eight to ten weeks assuming I make minimal changes and at half the cost.  

-Steve

Edited November 5, 2022 by SteveG

[Motor City]

3 hours ago, Joe Nunes said:

Bought a new 1977 Buick Regal, white with the green interior and half frost green vinyl top (don’t recall the exact color names). Best car I ever bought and I would sure enjoy making a model of it for old times sake. 
Joe

I had a '76 Regal coupe in Continental Blue (the color I posted earlier and below).  The Century versions were sportier looking:

The '77 Can Am, '73 GTO and Grand Am, '75 and '76 Century Indy Pace Cars, and many others would be of interest to model builders.  The cost to do any of them would be astronomical, so you would probably have to take a poll, do one and see how well it sells.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Motor City

[Oldcarfan27]

Even though this thread took a wild turn, Steve has been such a wealth of information on what goes on in his end of the industry. I say, let this thread derail and see where it leads.

This is the most interest I've seen on 70s cars in a long time!

[tim boyd]

3 hours ago, SteveG said:

Assuming we can get a willing classic car owner, their car and third party with the proper equipment all together to create the necessary 3D data for us. that's one expense.  Then that data has to go to our tooling and design vendor to convert it into the individual files to make each part one by one, similar to when we get manufacturer's data.  That's another expense.  It took close to a year to take Ford's data to get an acceptable 3D printed mockup of a buildable model of the new Bronco, and it's a curbside design.  The full detail Dodge Chargers took even longer. 

I can now take an existing promo model, send it straight over to our tooling and design vendor and have a 3D printed mockup back to review in eight to ten weeks assuming I make minimal changes and at half the cost.  

-Steve

Thanks Steve for taking the time to explain the steps required to scan and data-ize 1/1 scale cars, and also the process for the Round 2 "cloning" process to Forum members.  

One other issue, not mentioned so far, is that 1/1 scale owners are not always willing to hand over their cars for scanning.  Unless the process has changed recently, digital scans require "dusting" a car with a white powder that is then "read" by the scanning equipment.  It of course can be cleaned off readily enough, but some owners, particularly those with the really correct high quality restorations that are the best source of scan data for model kits, are leery of the process.  Don't know if Round 2 has encountered this, but apparently Revell has in the past.   TB 

[Calb56]

I think it's both cool and informative having people in the industry interacting on the forum here.

I appreciate it and everyone who takes the time.

Charles 

[Luc Janssens]

38 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

Thanks Steve for taking the time to explain the steps required to scan and data-ize 1/1 scale cars, and also the process for the Round 2 "cloning" process to Forum members.  

One other issue, not mentioned so far, is that 1/1 scale owners are not always willing to hand over their cars for scanning.  Unless the process has changed recently, digital scans require "dusting" a car with a white powder that is then "read" by the scanning equipment.  It of course can be cleaned off readily enough, but some owners, particularly those with the really correct high quality restorations that are the best source of scan data for model kits, are leery of the process.  Don't know if Round 2 has encountered this, but apparently Revell has in the past.   TB 

All true Tim, but how many man hours is spent on old school data gathering and converting that into a 3D file, printing to review, then massaging the file, and repeat, but still getting flak after release, by people who know the subject matter through and through. So indeed, as Steve said, its far easier to scan a vintage annual from the back catalog from amt and mpc and go from there, and that's the strength of Round-2 they have one a big back catalog, other manufacturers don't, and have to start from scratch.

Would be nice if they could copy Jo-Han kits too, but won't hold my breath on that one, but that's good news for my wallet  

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Luc Janssens

[Luc Janssens]

10 minutes ago, Calb56 said:

I think it's both cool and informative having people in the industry interacting on the forum here.

I appreciate it and everyone who takes the time.

Charles 

Same here.

 

[Richard Bartrop]

4 hours ago, SteveG said:

Assuming we can get a willing classic car owner, their car and third party with the proper equipment all together to create the necessary 3D data for us. that's one expense.  Then that data has to go to our tooling and design vendor to convert it into the individual files to make each part one by one, similar to when we get manufacturer's data.  That's another expense.  It took close to a year to take Ford's data to get an acceptable 3D printed mockup of a buildable model of the new Bronco, and it's a curbside design.  The full detail Dodge Chargers took even longer. 

I can now take an existing promo model, send it straight over to our tooling and design vendor and have a 3D printed mockup back to review in eight to ten weeks assuming I make minimal changes and at half the cost.  

-Steve

Okay, now you have me wondering about something.  I've always been clamouring for a decent Auburn Speedster kit, and let's be honest, the old Pyro kit is a relic of its age.  On the other hand, you do have that very nice Auburn diecast in 1/18, and the fact you've reissued it suggests there's a demand.  How much effort would be involved in running a scanner over the diecast moulds,  reducing them to 1/25, adapting them to take styrene, and selling the unassembled parts as a kit?  Same with the Peerless, and Duesenberg SSJ, while we're here.

[Luc Janssens]

11 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

Okay, now you have me wondering about something.  I've always been clamouring for a decent Auburn Speedster kit, and let's be honest, the old Pyro kit is a relic of its age.  On the other hand, you do have that very nice Auburn diecast in 1/18, and the fact you've reissued it suggests there's a demand.  How much effort would be involved in running a scanner over the diecast moulds,  reducing them to 1/25, adapting them to take styrene, and selling the unassembled parts as a kit?  Same with the Peerless, and Duesenberg SSJ, while we're here.

IIRC RC2 or whatever the name of the post Ertl company was before Round-2 rescued the assets, did something similar with the '58 Plymouth Belvedere, using a 1/18th scale diecast to tool up a 1/25th scale kit, warts and all....

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Luc Janssens

[Plowboy]

19 hours ago, SteveG said:

Assuming we can get a willing classic car owner, their car and third party with the proper equipment all together to create the necessary 3D data for us. that's one expense.  Then that data has to go to our tooling and design vendor to convert it into the individual files to make each part one by one, similar to when we get manufacturer's data.  That's another expense.  It took close to a year to take Ford's data to get an acceptable 3D printed mockup of a buildable model of the new Bronco, and it's a curbside design.  The full detail Dodge Chargers took even longer. 

I can now take an existing promo model, send it straight over to our tooling and design vendor and have a 3D printed mockup back to review in eight to ten weeks assuming I make minimal changes and at half the cost.  

-Steve

The results on the Bronco and Charger speak for themselves. As does the Foose F-100 and Eldorod. Doesn't it cost to make corrections to to the tooling also? How much time is lost going back and forth with test shots and corrections?

Seems to me that 3D printing doesn't always equal accurate. The Moebius '65 Nova was printed and the roof on that kit is butchered 'til hell wouldn't even have it. It had to have cost them to change the window openings, door panels and glass trying to hide the chopped roof.  

[Hondamatic]

Looks like this topic turned into the wish list one ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️ @Xingu

[Luc Janssens]

15 minutes ago, Hondamatic said:

Looks like this topic turned into the wish list one ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️ @Xingu

So, It got off topic, but got a good interaction going...don't see the harm.