Testors Aluminum plate.

[Mike 1017]

I have been using Aluminum plate as primer for some projects. The masking tape {Tamiya} that I use is pulling the 3 coats of clear and 3 coats paint off the body but, does not pull off the Aluminum plate. I use 3600 hundred to sand the Aluminum plate. Is it possible that 3600 is too smooth for the paint to adhere to the Aluminum plate?

Thanks

Mike

 

[yh70]

why Aluminum plate as a primer ? paints hardly ever adhere to the surface.

[NOBLNG]

5 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

I have been using Aluminum plate as primer for some projects. The masking tape {Tamiya} that I use is pulling the 3 coats of clear and 3 coats paint off the body but, does not pull off the Aluminum plate. I use 3600 hundred to sand the Aluminum plate. Is it possible that 3600 is too smooth for the paint to adhere to the Aluminum plate?

Thanks

Mike

 

You mean aluminum PAINT I take it? Yeah, that does not make a good primer. Even if there was primer under that, the tape may still pull the paint away from the aluminum.

Edited January 5, 2023 by NOBLNG

[Fat Brian]

I've found Tamiya tape to be too sticky as well. I've switched to others painters take that's a bit less tacky. You can also try sticking the Tamiya tape to the inside of your forearm before using it on the model, this reduces the stickiness a bit.

[Can-Con]

54 minutes ago, Fat Brian said:

 try sticking the Tamiya tape to the inside of your forearm before using it on the model, this reduces the stickiness a bit.

But then you have to pick the arm hairs off of it. ??

[Classicgas]

I use Duplicolor primer scratch filler.

[Chariots of Fire]

I agree.  Find another primer.

[Fat Brian]

55 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

But then you have to pick the arm hairs off of it. ??

True, this does depend on your personal level of hairyness.

[Dpate]

I've never known folks to think Tamiya's tape is too tacky.  If i need to de-tack it i just put the tape on the palm of my hand.  If Tamiya tape pulled up 6 layers of paint than even cheap painters tape would do the same thing.  It pulled up because the paint didn't adhere to the aluminum plate at all the tape is not the issue here at all.  You used paint on bare plastic, and than smoothed it out like a babies bottom lol.  The tape pulled everything up because the paint wasn't imbedded into the aluminum plate just sitting on top of it so ta speak.  

[Straightliner59]

I'd recommend Parafilm, as a masking agent. It conforms better than tape. It sticks and masks, and it doesn't lift the paint. I've had very good luck, with it.

[Mike 1017]

Thank you for all the comments. I normally use Duplicolor  Scratch Filler for 80% of my projects. I never had paint pulled off by the tape ever. It never occurred to me that it was the tape. I will try to dummy up the tape. I just wanted to try something new with the Aluminum Plate. I read somewhere that it was a good primer. 

Again, Thank You

Mike

[peteski]

12 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

I just wanted to try something new with the Aluminum Plate. I read somewhere that it was a good primer. 

Keep in mind that not everything you see on the Interwebs is good advice.
Primers are designed as undercoat for paint (so it adheres well), and as a barrier for hot solvents from penetrating to and crazing plastic.  There are some who recommend silver paint to create a barrier to prevent the dye from bright colored (like yellow or red) plastic bodies leaching out and into the top paint coats, but not as a general purpose primer.

[Bainford]

13 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

It never occurred to me that it was the tape. I will try to dummy up the tape.

It's not the tape, It's the aluminum plate as primer. It has an almost dusty finish, and I wouldn't expect anything to stick to it. Besides, it's out of production and highly sought after for its intended purpose as an aluminum finish, for which it is unmatched. It would be a shame to waste it as primer. Get a trusted primer and this problem will go away.

[Bainford]

19 minutes ago, peteski said:

There are some who recommend silver paint to create a barrier to prevent the dye from bright colored (like yellow or red) plastic bodies leaching out and into the top paint coats, but not as a general purpose primer.

Actually Pete, it is a recommendation of known modeller. I think it was Don Yost (and someone please correct me if it was not him). I expect that this is the source of Michael's method. Back on the SA forum a fellow was using the same method, and experienced the same problems; all the paint ripped off with masking tape. It seems a very odd choice to me. I believe the idea is that Model Master (Testors) aluminum plate Metalizer hides absolutely no detail at all, and it is exceptionally revealing of defects. But the surface finish of dried aluminum plate is somewhat loose and dusty, and for that reason it seems to me it would make a poor primer. I must say though, that I have not seen Don's painting videos or read any painting posts he may have made, so I don't know his reasoning, or if he employs a special method of application to make it work, or whatever. There may be more to the story.

[Can-Con]

10 hours ago, Bainford said:

Actually Pete, it is a recommendation of known modeller. I think it was Don Yost (and someone please correct me if it was not him). I expect that this is the source of Michael's method. Back on the SA forum a fellow was using the same method, and experienced the same problems; all the paint ripped off with masking tape. It seems a very odd choice to me. I believe the idea is that Model Master (Testors) aluminum plate Metalizer hides absolutely no detail at all, and it is exceptionally revealing of defects. But the surface finish of dried aluminum plate is somewhat loose and dusty, and for that reason it seems to me it would make a poor primer. I must say though, that I have not seen Don's painting videos or read any painting posts he may have made, so I don't know his reasoning, or if he employs a special method of application to make it work, or whatever. There may be more to the story.

Using silver as a barrier coat is a pretty common thing. 

A lot of silver and aluminum paints are made up of just the flake and carrier. That's what they're usually quite dull.

When you spray them on the flakes lay down overlapping like the shingles on a roof. Makes a pretty good barrier. Shellac works the exact same way. Helps keep the dye from anything underneath from leaching up through the closely overlapping flakes or solvents from going under it. A lot of gold paint will work the same way. Not perfect but it does help a lot and the more coats the better it works.

Most other paints are usually made up of carrier and pigment. The pigment is usually made up of more uneven shaped or rounded particles so when it lays down it's more like a layer of crushed rock or even a ball pit. Great drainage but doesn't keep the dye from underneath from leaching up through or solvents from anything put on top of it from going down through it no matter how many coats you use. 

I like to use a silver or gold layer to check my bodywork before painting, shows every little imperfection so you can fix them before your finish coats.

 

Hope this wasn't too confusing. ?

[Mike 1017]

11 hours ago, Bainford said:

Actually Pete, it is a recommendation of known modeller. I think it was Don Yost (and someone please correct me if it was not him). I expect that this is the source of Michael's method. Back on the SA forum a fellow was using the same method, and experienced the same problems; all the paint ripped off with masking tape. It seems a very odd choice to me. I believe the idea is that Model Master (Testors) aluminum plate Metalizer hides absolutely no detail at all, and it is exceptionally revealing of defects. But the surface finish of dried aluminum plate is somewhat loose and dusty, and for that reason it seems to me it would make a poor primer. I must say though, that I have not seen Don's painting videos or read any painting posts he may have made, so I don't know his reasoning, or if he employs a special method of application to make it work, or whatever. There may be more to the story.

Now that I think about it. It was a Don Youst video. I did used soap and hot water to wash off the residue. I have an Impala and a 442 soaking in Easy Off. Because of the clear coat and the paint getting torn off. I bought 6 cans each of Aluminum and Titanium metallizer from Hobby Lobby. When I found out that they were not making it anymore. They are great when using them for they were meant for. No more Metallizer for primer!!

Thanks for all of your comments

Mike

[Classicgas]

I don't see it being a good primer at all. It's very thin and reveals everything, no filling quality at all.

[Mike 1017]

Yesterday I looked at my cars the I primed with Aluminum Plate. They are mostly Drag Cars. I didn't mask off anything and just used decals. I masked off the Impala and 442 so that I could airbrush Molotow Chrome on the moldings and other trim.

Mystery solved ?

Thanks

Mike

[Dave G.]

The lesson in all this is to not use something " as primer" but to use primer. Primer is a real thing an actual product made to stick to the plastic and for paint to stick to it. Primer though even at that comes in variants, from sanding primer, non sanding primer, primer sealer, primer surfacer, lacquer, acrylic, acrylic with urethane polymers or not, enamel and etc. But primers are primers not a decorative paint used as primer.

[peteski]

4 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

Yesterday I looked at my cars the I primed with Aluminum Plate. They are mostly Drag Cars. I didn't mask off anything and just used decals. I masked off the Impala and 442 so that I could airbrush Molotow Chrome on the moldings and other trim.

Mystery solved ?

To me the takeaway of this is not to use that silver paint for primer (unless you have a very specific reason, like a bright red or yellow plastic body and you want to paint it white).  Why not use a proper primer otherwise?  And I'll say it again: just because some online "modeling influencer" recommends some technique, it might not be the best, or work well for everybody or every application.

[Straightliner59]

12 hours ago, peteski said:

To me the takeaway of this is not to use that silver paint for primer (unless you have a very specific reason, like a bright red or yellow plastic body and you want to paint it white).

That was exactly how, and why I tried it the first time. I wanted to paint the old Monogram Indy Car kit yellow, and it was molded in red. I didn't even know if it would stop the bleed-through. Anyway, I shot it with the metallizer, then followed that with whatever primer I had, at the time. It worked. I even taped over it to paint the scallop on the nose. I've seen other instances where even primer doesn't really adhere to the metallizer. It's kind of a hit-and-miss proposition, it seems. Now, I just use Zinsser Bin 1-2-3 from the spray can. It worked beautifully on my S/G Vega, which is a promo body that I painted Mulsanne Blue, with no bleed-through, or damage to the promo body plastic, which, I've discovered can be a bit sensitive to solvents.

[Dave G.]

8 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

That was exactly how, and why I tried it the first time. I wanted to paint the old Monogram Indy Car kit yellow, and it was molded in red. I didn't even know if it would stop the bleed-through. Anyway, I shot it with the metallizer, then followed that with whatever primer I had, at the time. It worked. I even taped over it to paint the scallop on the nose. I've seen other instances where even primer doesn't really adhere to the metallizer. It's kind of a hit-and-miss proposition, it seems. Now, I just use Zinsser Bin 1-2-3 from the spray can. It worked beautifully on my S/G Vega, which is a promo body that I painted Mulsanne Blue, with no bleed-through, or damage to the promo body plastic, which, I've discovered can be a bit sensitive to solvents.

That looks awesome ! I built one back around 1962 or so, the plastic I believe was cream colored on that one back then. Or similar anyway.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Dave G.

[Straightliner59]

26 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

That looks awesome ! I built one back around 1962 or so, the plastic I believe was cream colored on that one back then. Or similar anyway.

Thank you, David! Even though I am a tad young to have caught these kits, originally, the early Monogram car kits have come to be some of my favorites. It becomes obvious, when one sees the contents of my display case!?

[Bainford]

On 1/7/2023 at 11:35 AM, Can-Con said:

Using silver as a barrier coat is a pretty common thing. 

A lot of silver and aluminum paints are made up of just the flake and carrier. That's what they're usually quite dull.

When you spray them on the flakes lay down overlapping like the shingles on a roof. Makes a pretty good barrier. Shellac works the exact same way. Helps keep the dye from anything underneath from leaching up through the closely overlapping flakes or solvents from going under it. A lot of gold paint will work the same way. Not perfect but it does help a lot and the more coats the better it works.

Most other paints are usually made up of carrier and pigment. The pigment is usually made up of more uneven shaped or rounded particles so when it lays down it's more like a layer of crushed rock or even a ball pit. Great drainage but doesn't keep the dye from underneath from leaching up through or solvents from anything put on top of it from going down through it no matter how many coats you use. 

I like to use a silver or gold layer to check my bodywork before painting, shows every little imperfection so you can fix them before your finish coats.

 

Hope this wasn't too confusing. ?

Thanks Steve. You are absolutely right, of course. I myself have used silver paint to good effect as a barrier. Just so there is no confusion though, my comments above apply specifically to Model Master Aluminum Plate Metallizer and its use as a general primer, a method supposedly developed by Mr. Yost. Not having actually seen Don's videos or read his own account on this method, I wonder if there is more to it. Or, perhaps he intended this method to be used only as a barrier/primer. I really don't know, but I have known a number of builders who, after having heard Don's advice, used aluminum plate as a general-use primer. It sounds like an advanced method, perhaps even experimental, and for most modellers I would recommend sticking with a known good primer.

[Dpate]

I wish they would just stop making kits in colored plastic to begin with.  Grey & black no prob, but yellow, blue etc is dumb.  Just save money and make every kit white plastic or cream like moebius.  They should know there market isn't no 14+ kids out here buying these expensive kits and just give adults white clean flash free plastic, but that's only a dream though and not a reality sadly.