Paint related question

[Donny]

Yes another one. I am and will remain confused for some time relating to paint and related products. Todays question, is varnish the same as clear. I have a can of "Vallejo acrylic gloss varnish", is varnish the same as clear. 

I watched a video last night relating to 2K for great shine/finish for show models, not knowing what V2 was, I looked it up and found that it was the most toxic material you could use, and stay away from it. So I wont be using that. Back to my original question, if the Vallejo "varnish" is good for a clear finish, then I will "maybe" use it. Next question, which is the better of the two clears, Tamiya or Testors, saw reports of them both being highly rated. Paint and it's related products, has to be one of the most confusing and things that everyone seems to have an opinion on, and not all the same/good. I'm fast coming to the conclusion that I stick with the major brands, Tamiya, Mr Color, AK Real Colors, etc and talk to you guys for advice, which of course I'm already doing.

Don  

Edited yesterday at 02:04 AM by Donny

[slusher]

I would not use that on a model.  I would stick with mode clears."

[Donny]

1 hour ago, slusher said:

I would not use that on a model.  I would stick with mode clears."

Thanks mate, that's what I needed to know. Suggestions, Tamiya or Mr Color ?

Don

Edited yesterday at 10:59 AM by Donny

[Beans]

That varnish is something I usually see used on wargaming and model figures.  I've never used it myself but that is where I hear "varnish" being used most.  I have no experience with the Mr. Color clear.  Tamiya is good.  I tend to always use clear from the same company that made the paint I used on the model.  

Testors extreme or whatever they call it now, is ok.  It doesn't spray as fine at the Tamiya and I find that I have to move the can faster to get more even coats.  

[Bainford]

11 hours ago, Donny said:

Yes another one. I am and will remain confused for some time relating to paint and related products. Todays question, is varnish the same as clear. I have a can of "Vallejo acrylic gloss varnish", is varnish the same as clear. I watched a video last night relating to 2K for great shine/finish for show models, not knowing what V2 was, I looked it up and found that it was the most toxic material you could use, and stay away from it. So I wont be using that.

 

Yes, don't use that. There are some people who swear by it, but it is indeed dangerous stuff. Its safe use requires special precautions and equipment, such as fresh-air breathing supply, which must be strictly adhered to.  But here's the rub; it doesn't even look very good. This is merely an opinion, of course, but I find the ridiculous degree of shine is unrealistic, and personally, quite off-putting.

I realise this paint stuff seems quite confusing, and after a while all of the well-intended advice becomes a lot of noise. The fact is, it really is not at all complicated once you start to get a handle on it. It becomes complicated when many builders who have been building many years develop their own process, often employing non-hobby products, and which work very well. But along with all of these variables comes the noise. The vast majority of the advice is good, but the vast volumes of it is hard on the head.

Keep it simple. Stick with plastic model related finishing products (which I very highly recommend to anyone jumping into the hobby). Then you need to pick a paint-type (lacquer, enamel, or acrylic), and then pick a trusted brand (Tamiya, Mr Color, AK, etc). Then, stick with that until you have gained some experience, and worked through the trials and tribulations of just applying paint. Eventually all (most?) of the advice will begin to make sense, and as confidence is gained, you may wish to experiment further with other systems, brands, and even non-hobby related products.

As for which paint-type to choose, lacquer is perhaps the simplest and most user friendly, and generates great results. If your work area is well ventilated and there is no one in your house who has environmental sensitivities or rags on you about 'the paint smell', there is no reason to not use lacquer (there are many acrylic users who would rather use lacquer but they or someone in the house takes issue with lacquer fumes).

As for brands, it is hard to beat Tamiya; widely available, wide range of products, and very high quality. Mr Color is probably the equal of Tamiya, but it is not available in my area so I haven't used it. Other Mr Hobby products are very high quality, and I have no doubt their paints are, too.

I realise this is likely all just more noise, but a final comment on painting; whenever spraying paint (can or airbrush), protect yourself by using a quality half-mask with replaceable filters suitable for filtering organic solvents. I use a 3M brand mask (forget the model number) and I believe the P100 filters. The masks come in three sizes (S,M,L), so be sure to get one that fits. A proper industrial supply shop (NOT Harbor Freight) is the best place to get one, and be sure to use it. Lacquer fumes are toxic, and the effects are accumulative over a lifetime, causing potential nerve damage. The good news is, it is easily defended against by using a mask. If you can't smell any fumes at all, you are protected. If you do smell any paint at all while wearing a mask, replace the cartridge or replace the mask with one that fits. I also highly recommend using disposable gloves when handling lacquer thinner, as it can de-fat the skin causing dermatitis, and can be absorbed through the skin contributing to nerve damage. Some disposable glove materials won't withstand lacquer thinner. Gloves made of nitrile are your best bet.

P.S. Apologies if this post merely adds to the noise.

Edited 23 hours ago by Bainford

[NOBLNG]

I bought a can of that at my LHS on their recommendation. I sprayed it straight from the can onto a ‘68 Dart and didn’t like the result. I think it went on too heavy and looked like it was dipped in honey. Unfortunately I didn’t take any pics. If I attempt to use it again I will decant some and try airbrushing it.😕

[bill-e-boy]

The older aircraft modelers that I know refer to clear coat as varnish and is most probably what they used back in the day. Typically varnish dries with a yellow cast which gets deeper over time. The older enamel clears had a finish like that and were most probably a form of varnish. The modern clears like Tamiya and Mr Color are acrylic (enamels and lacquer) clear paint and don't yellow over time and would be a better bet to use for modelling

 IMO stick with paints designed for modelling as they have finer pigments and clears are just that

[espo]

The term used to describe a product can vary from one part of the country as well as the world. The "Varnish" description, as a resident of the US usually refers to a product used in finishing wood working, boats or furniture as an example. Not absolutely but most often. The term "clear" usually would be a description of paint product that could be sprayed or brush painted, and in our application say a plastic model. I have seen builders here that are from other countries that use the varnish term in the context that I would use to describe the use of say a clear paint spray on covering. Maybe verify that the product you are using would be compatible with the paint on your model before any application. 

[peteski]

Like David said, the word "varnish" is used differently in various parts of the world by modelers to describe clear coatings.

And for education purposes, here's some info : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish

[Donny]

15 hours ago, Bainford said:

Yes, don't use that. There are some people who swear by it, but it is indeed dangerous stuff. Its safe use requires special precautions and equipment, such as fresh-air breathing supply, which must be strictly adhered to.  But here's the rub; it doesn't even look very good. This is merely an opinion, of course, but I find the ridiculous degree of shine is unrealistic, and personally, quite off-putting.

I realise this paint stuff seems quite confusing, and after a while all of the well-intended advice becomes a lot of noise. The fact is, it really is not at all complicated once you start to get a handle on it. It becomes complicated when many builders who have been building many years develop their own process, often employing non-hobby products, and which work very well. But along with all of these variables comes the noise. The vast majority of the advice is good, but the vast volumes of it is hard on the head.

Keep it simple. Stick with plastic model related finishing products (which I very highly recommend to anyone jumping into the hobby). Then you need to pick a paint-type (lacquer, enamel, or acrylic), and then pick a trusted brand (Tamiya, Mr Color, AK, etc). Then, stick with that until you have gained some experience, and worked through the trials and tribulations of just applying paint. Eventually all (most?) of the advice will begin to make sense, and as confidence is gained, you may wish to experiment further with other systems, brands, and even non-hobby related products.

As for which paint-type to choose, lacquer is perhaps the simplest and most user friendly, and generates great results. If your work area is well ventilated and there is no one in your house who has environmental sensitivities or rags on you about 'the paint smell', there is no reason to not use lacquer (there are many acrylic users who would rather use lacquer but they or someone in the house takes issue with lacquer fumes).

As for brands, it is hard to beat Tamiya; widely available, wide range of products, and very high quality. Mr Color is probably the equal of Tamiya, but it is not available in my area so I haven't used it. Other Mr Hobby products are very high quality, and I have no doubt their paints are, too.

I realise this is likely all just more noise, but a final comment on painting; whenever spraying paint (can or airbrush), protect yourself by using a quality half-mask with replaceable filters suitable for filtering organic solvents. I use a 3M brand mask (forget the model number) and I believe the P100 filters. The masks come in three sizes (S,M,L), so be sure to get one that fits. A proper industrial supply shop (NOT Harbor Freight) is the best place to get one, and be sure to use it. Lacquer fumes are toxic, and the effects are accumulative over a lifetime, causing potential nerve damage. The good news is, it is easily defended against by using a mask. If you can't smell any fumes at all, you are protected. If you do smell any paint at all while wearing a mask, replace the cartridge or replace the mask with one that fits. I also highly recommend using disposable gloves when handling lacquer thinner, as it can de-fat the skin causing dermatitis, and can be absorbed through the skin contributing to nerve damage. Some disposable glove materials won't withstand lacquer thinner. Gloves made of nitrile are your best bet.

P.S. Apologies if this post merely adds to the noise.

Thanks Trevor it's in the bin. I'll take your advice and stick with Tamiya or Mr Color at this time as I can only use/spray Acrylics. I already wear a mask as I have bad lungs I have COPD, so anything apart from acrylics is forbidden, so the choice is made for me. I recently watched a vid by Barbados Rex, he tested the Mr Color range and gave them a pretty good wrap. I would like to have a try with enamels, but that was before Covid got me and shot my lungs, so as I said, it's a gotta be Acrylics. Hey, I'll work on Acrylics until I get a you beaut finish, well for me. I'm just happy to be back building cars and rediscovering lost skills, I just have to sort out the paint confusion. When I read about guys spraying clear and getting crazing and that sort of thing, I get real nervous as I don't want to stuff it up and have to be doing a rework - strip and repaint, as I don't know if that will wreck the body and not be recoverable, so, If I stick with Tamiya and Mr Color paints and their  clears, I should be pretty safe  -  right? and no it doesn't add to the noise, you just helped me clear all the "advice/noise", I had filling my head, and gave me a path, thank you.

Thanks for the advice and clarity, I really appreciate you taking the time to do that for me

Regards Don  

[stitchdup]

2 hours ago, Donny said:

Thanks Trevor it's in the bin. I'll take your advice and stick with Tamiya or Mr Color at this time as I can only use/spray Acrylics. I already wear a mask as I have bad lungs I have COPD, so anything apart from acrylics is forbidden, so the choice is made for me. I recently watched a vid by Barbados Rex, he tested the Mr Color range and gave them a pretty good wrap. I would like to have a try with enamels, but that was before Covid got me and shot my lungs, so as I said, it's a gotta be Acrylics. Hey, I'll work on Acrylics until I get a you beaut finish, well for me. I'm just happy to be back building cars and rediscovering lost skills, I just have to sort out the paint confusion. When I read about guys spraying clear and getting crazing and that sort of thing, I get real nervous as I don't want to stuff it up and have to be doing a rework - strip and repaint, as I don't know if that will wreck the body and not be recoverable, so, If I stick with Tamiya and Mr Color paints and their  clears, I should be pretty safe  -  right? and no it doesn't add to the noise, you just helped me clear all the "advice/noise", I had filling my head, and gave me a path, thank you.

Thanks for the advice and clarity, I really appreciate you taking the time to do that for me

Regards Don  

I've got copd too, a paint booth is a big help. It doesn't need to be expensive either, mines a cheapo off amazon and i can spray all day without a mask (i dont but i could) I think mine was about £75 a few years back

[Donny]

4 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

I've got copd too, a paint booth is a big help. It doesn't need to be expensive either, mines a cheapo off amazon and i can spray all day without a mask (i dont but i could) I think mine was about £75 a few years back

Sorry to hear that mate, it's a right PITA. The thing that sh*ts me off with it, is the things I can't do anymore, some of that is that according to my lung specialist, I'm stuck in "long covid". Yep I have a paint booth, nothing fancy, but helps.

Don

[stitchdup]

2 minutes ago, Donny said:

Sorry to hear that mate, it's a right PITA. The thing that sh*ts me off with it, is the things I can't do anymore, some of that is that according to my lung specialist, I'm stuck in "long covid". Yep I have a paint booth, nothing fancy, but helps.

Don

I hear ya mate, with me its made my blood thick so walking in cold weather is very painful and slow and for the last 6 months i've been struggling to swallow. Thats on top of the breathing problems. I used to be on my skateboard every day but now it gets used to move furniture