Could you make a business case for upcoming new kit subjects?

[kruleworld]

I've always wondered how companies can produce a quizzilion of those cheap diecast models with styrene bits, but styrene kits or assemble yourself diecasts can't be done.

I'm sure AMT's biggest selling line would be the Dukes of Hazzard Dodge Charger, but they've never bothered redo the kit, rather stick with the pathetically bad MPC kit. I'm sure plenty of kids have gotten this kit, only to be turned off model building completely, because it's so bad.

[Luc Janssens]

I've always wondered how companies can produce a quizzilion of those cheap diecast models with styrene bits, but styrene kits or assemble yourself diecasts can't be done.

I'm sure AMT's biggest selling line would be the Dukes of Hazzard Dodge Charger, but they've never bothered redo the kit, rather stick with the pathetically bad MPC kit. I'm sure plenty of kids have gotten this kit, only to be turned off model building completely, because it's so bad.

They're releasing an all new snap kit

[Tom Geiger]

I will nominate the 1955 through 1957 Thunderbird as a subject. The 1955 has never been done in scale, while the 1956 and 1957 are very old tools with limited detail. A brand new tool to current detail levels should be explored.

The model could be released first as a stock version of each of the three years. Then there are tons of competition options that could be explored, including replicas of actual cars. And the gasser releases would sell like crazy.

Yea, this one has Moebius written all over it!

[drball]

I will nominate the 1955 through 1957 Thunderbird as a subject. The 1955 has never been done in scale, while the 1956 and 1957 are very old tools with limited detail. A brand new tool to current detail levels should be explored.

The model could be released first as a stock version of each of the three years. Then there are tons of competition options that could be explored, including replicas of actual cars. And the gasser releases would sell like crazy.

Yea, this one has Moebius written all over it!

The 56 AMT is not that old but a little compromised in my opinion.

[MrObsessive]

It's a mystery why the '55 T-Bird has never been offered as a full detail glue kit.

Nevertheless, I would be all over one despite the fact that I did build one years ago, converting Monogram's '56 kit. And Tom's right........I can see this being a very big Moebius subject!

[jbwelda]

yeah old fords and studes and stuff will sell like hotcakes...to people who will likely be dead in another 15 years. outside that demographic (hic), no one cares a whit about them really.

that's not much of a business case there.

someone at least do a VW Trekker/181/Thing...lots of possibilities there.

jb

[Tom Geiger]

yeah old fords and studes and stuff will sell like hotcakes...to people who will likely be dead in another 15 years. outside that demographic (hic), no one cares a whit about them really.

Throw a big rock in the pond just to see where the ripples will go??

[Custom Mike]

I'm surprised no one has tooled up a new '67 Camaro, since it's a simple conversion to a '68, just change the grille, side markers (Decals for those) and tail lights, remove the vent windows and you've got a '68 Camaro. Put out a 327/350 SS (Revell's already got an excellent 327 in the '63/'64 Impala kits, no need to tool up another one, jump on it boys!), and with a few minor changes (Intake, valve covers, decals), you can make the 327/350 into a 302 and do a Z/28 version. A pair of different hoods for stock and SS versions, RS grille, heck, you could easily get 6 versions from one main tool, and that doesn't even cover the Trans-Am and Drag versions you could release. Of course, a street machine version of both could be done with ease, putting this tool in the 10+ release category easily, sounds like a good investment to me! And of course, it's a first generation Camaro, it will sell!

This one's a personal favorite for me, but judging from what they go for on E-Bay, someone must want them. A new tool '71-74 Javelin, by changing the roof panel (There were indentations on the '71 and '72 that looked like T-Tops, not the '73 and '74 though),the grille and tail lights, you can get 4 kits right off the bat from one tool. Since all AMC V-8's were the same physical size, you only need one block, and a few different intakes could represent just about any engine AMC put in them, Throw in the Tran-Am race versions, and you've got another two or three releases, and that doesn't even count the street machine versions that could be put out.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Custom Mike

[unclescott58]

yeah old fords and studes and stuff will sell like hotcakes...to people who will likely be dead in another 15 years. outside that demographic (hic), no one cares a whit about them really.

that's not much of a business case there.

someone at least do a VW Trekker/181/Thing...lots of possibilities there.

jb

Hey, those of us who will be dead in another 15 years or so, tend to now have the money to indulge in things like model cars. I think it makes a great business case for things like Studebakers and Thunderbirds. 15 years from now, I'd say no. At this point in my life I can afford to be the kid I wanted to be in my youth. I buy many more models now, than I ever did when I was young. If the model companies are smart, which they seem to be from what they've brought out in recent years, they should keep offering models that open up my pocket book.

I don't know where things will be 15 years from now. Will today's or tomorrow's kids ever get into model building the way us Baby Boomers did? I kind of doubt it. Sure keep on bringing out kits to try to attract the younger crowd. But... Since us "old farts" will for sure keep out buying kits, it's still a "great business case" aiming at us. For now.

Back to to Thunderbirds. I still love AMT's old '57 T-Bird kit. Would I like to see a more modern tooling of the car? I don't know if it's needed? But if anyone does do a new '57 T-Bird kit, I'll buy one. '57 is my favorite year for the 2-seat Birds. I like '56, but it's my least favorite of those same Birds. I have build several of Monogram's '56 Birds, and one of the American Graffiti '56 Birds. What I can't understand is why the first Thunderbird, the '55, has been basically ignored in 1/25th scale. Notice I said basically. Contrary to rumor the '55 Thunderbird was done as a 1/25th scale Promo and as disassembled promo styling kit back in 1955. But, it's not been seen since. I love the clean lines of that first Thunderbird. More than the other two, we need a good '55.

Scott

[Brett Barrow]

I'm surprised no one has tooled up a new '67 Camaro, since it's a simple conversion to a '68, just change the grille, side markers (Decals for those) and tail lights, remove the vent windows and you've got a '68 Camaro. Put out a 327/350 SS (Revell's already got an excellent 327 in the '63/'64 Impala kits, no need to tool up another one, jump on it boys!), and with a few minor changes (Intake, valve covers, decals), you can make the 327/350 into a 302 and do a Z/28 version. A pair of different hoods for stock and SS versions, RS grille, heck, you could easily get 6 versions from one main tool, and that doesn't even cover the Trans-Am and Drag versions you could release. Of course, a street machine version of both could be done with ease, putting this tool in the 10+ release category easily, sounds like a good investment to me! And of course, it's a first generation Camaro, it will sell!

Ummm... Revell's all-new 67 Camaro will be out in a couple of months. They had a built test shot at NNL East.

[Art Anderson]

Uh, in all this conversation, I hear personal desires for a model car kit subject, but no BUSINESS CASE. The latter seriously requires, not implies, numbers. By that I mean projected numbers of such new model kit sold in say 12-24 months; along with a price point that not only covers development and tooling costs, but also production and distribution costs, and leaves behind some profit (Oh I know, that's a BAD word!) behind for the manufacturer.

Anything less than that is but a pusilanimous wishing for one's personal favorite model kit subject of the day (which can change depending on which day of the week one asks!)

Art

[unclescott58]

yeah old fords and studes and stuff will sell like hotcakes...to people who will likely be dead in another 15 years. outside that demographic (hic), no one cares a whit about them really.

that's not much of a business case there.

someone at least do a VW Trekker/181/Thing...lots of possibilities there.

jb

Forgot to mention, I too would love to see a VW 181/Thing in 1/25th scale. The real thing (Or "Thing" as it may be) was not a big seller here in the United States. But, I always thought they were cool.

And Mike from Whiteville, NC, as Brett noted, Revell is coming out with a '67 Camaro. It's been talked about on several postings at this site lately. And I for one am excited that they are doing a SS version, instead of another Z-28.

Scott Aho

[Custom Mike]

And I'll bet we see a new, improved '68 somewhere down the line too! That one has always stymied me, it's an easy conversion to at least 6 different models with minor alterations. Thank you Revell for finally giving us a '67 that should be a quantum leap from the ones that came before!

[unclescott58]

Uh, in all this conversation, I hear personal desires for a model car kit subject, but no BUSINESS CASE. The latter seriously requires, not implies, numbers. By that I mean projected numbers of such new model kit sold in say 12-24 months; along with a price point that not only covers development and tooling costs, but also production and distribution costs, and leaves behind some profit (Oh I know, that's a BAD word!) behind for the manufacturer.

Anything less than that is but a pusilanimous wishing for one's personal favorite model kit subject of the day (which can change depending on which day of the week one asks!)

Art

Sorry Art. I am not a Business Major. I'm also not getting paid to come up a solid business case for future models. As I'm sure most people posting on this site are not. So what more do you expect from us? I've never worked for a model company. I do not know what it really takes for a model company to offer us a new kit. Nor do I really care. I only know what I will spend my money on. And yes that may change from week to week. But, in the long run, if they make what I like, I'll buy it someday down the road.

So no. I can not make a educated business case for upcoming new kit subjects. I can only give you my opinions. For what ever they are worth.

Scott Aho

[niteowl7710]

A couple four points...food for thought after catching up on this thread.

1) To make an animal husbandry analogy Revell has to milk the cows it has, it can't bet the farm on cows that "aren't born yet". But at the same time they need to raise some calves if they want to keep the dairy open. In English they have to make kits for the people who have the free time (or least disposable income) to purchase them, but can't neglect - as they have been - the future of their business. I think the success (or failure) of the $10 Mustang & Audi kits, along with the pre-painted 2013s will be very telling. Revell gets kudos for getting the kits out on the shelves during the Summer months (the Mustang is a June release, and the others are July/August) when kids are actually AT HOME and can build the kits. Plus they'll be out there way ahead of Christmas time as well (or just in time for Christmas in a big box retail point of view). Banking the entire future on the 50+ crowd just simply can't be done no matter how much you guys want to argue it. Go down to the forum basement and check out the thread of people listing their nearly hobby ending medical issues. Sorry guys but a LOT of the Peace, Drugs & Free Love crowd go rode hard and put up wet and it's coming back to bite everyone in the hind end. I'm not sure everyone's retirements will be nearly as health and/or as long as they think they are. My mom passed in February at 65 and she didn't even live the hippie lifestyle.

2) Grand Turismo and Forza are not the arcade driving games a lot of you seem to think they are. If you want to be successful and get into the truly high-end machinery especially in Grand Turismo you better be prepared to learn how to drive a race car and spend a LOT of time doing it. I understand with the newest version of GT you can buy in-game cash with REAL cash to sort of "short circuit" the experience of having to start with a used factory stock 4-banger econobox. As others have mentioned tapping into that market or tying into that market even if only a couple percent of people "transition" is still several THOUSAND people that because models aren't sold in every store around the block might not really be aware modeling exists. The downfall is of course that most of the cars involved seem to be the exclusive domain of Japan, with the exception of Ferarris from Revell AG. All of them for the most part are modern cars, and a slew of them are icky furrin' vehicles...I promise they don't radiate off cooties onto your Gasser kits at the LHS.

2a) This insistence that because a kit already exists, especially if it's 30+ year old tooling, it can't be done again in nonsense. I did thirty seconds of research tonight and found that there are no less than THIRTY (that's 3-0) boxings of Nissan Skyline R34 GT-Rs (1999-2002 5th Gen) from ALL THREE of the big Japanese manufacturers, several of them replicating each others kits, but there also being every version of those cars to the "nth" degree. That doesn't count the race car only kits. That doesn't count about 25-30 different variations of the R32 & R33 Skyline GT-Rs, and about 18 different boxings of the Nissan GT-R R35 (the one they also sell here in the U.S.). Yeah the GT-R is iconic, and yeah sure the Japanese market is different than here. BUT the point being they REALLY have the "multiple variations of a tooling" thing down pat over there, and they aren't afraid to compete head to head to prove who has the best product on the market.

3) One of the facilitating reasons that Moebius could bring the Hudson to market is Dave Burkett. Model King did two 5k piece runs of the NASCAR versions of the Hudson. How much easier is it to green light a project when 10,000 kits are sold before the tooling is cut? 5,000 Chryslers...5,000 '69 Ford F-Series...heck 5,000 '57 Ford Customs from Revell for that matter...it was one thing when he was putting up cash to restore tooling, it's another when it's cash to basically support tooling that doesn't exist.

You need Revell or Moebius to make you a model of the Hupmobile you want, go to Kickstarter and see if you can get enough cash to pay for half of the kit run...see if that doesn't open the door for your project idea.

[Brett Barrow]

yeah old fords and studes and stuff will sell like hotcakes...to people who will likely be dead in another 15 years. outside that demographic (hic), no one cares a whit about them really.

that's not much of a business case there.

jb

If that's actually the case (and for the record, I don't think it is) then you sell them kits and continue taking their money for the next 15 years. Dance with who brung you, as we like to say where I come from. You think if Revell and AMT could trade in those tuner kits they did in the early 2000's and have done Hudsons and letter series Chryslers and 50 Olds and bulletnose Studes instead they'd take that trade? Better believe they would, and they'd be better off today had they done those subjects instead. If old fogies is your market in 2014, then you better cater to the old fogies of 2014. Now's not the time to worry about the old fogies of 2029... And having said that I think Revell's upcoming new snap kits and prepainted glue kits are a step in the right direction for attracting newer and younger modelers.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[Custom Mike]

Ummm... Revell's all-new 67 Camaro will be out in a couple of months. They had a built test shot at NNL East.

Yeah, I'm the goober who didn't read all 10 pages Brett, thanks for the info. The sad thing is, I bought one of the AMT reissued '68's today...that's my luck! I need to pay more attention, don't I?

[Brett Barrow]

Yeah, I'm the goober who didn't read all 10 pages Brett, thanks for the info. The sad thing is, I bought one of the AMT reissued '68's today...that's my luck! I need to pay more attention, don't I?

Well you do get 2 sets of the Parts Pack Goodyears. And it has the flat hood, so it's got that going for it...

[Chuck Most]

yeah old fords and studes and stuff will sell like hotcakes...to people who will likely be dead in another 15 years. outside that demographic (hic), no one cares a whit about them really.

that's not much of a business case there.

someone at least do a VW Trekker/181/Thing...lots of possibilities there.

jb

Oh... ye of little faith.

If that's the case, riddle me this- Why do so many guys in my age bracket (25 to 35, and therefore closer to fifty years, not fifteen, from the grave statistically speaking) buy and build models of old Fords, and yes, even old Studebakers, not that there are many of the latter? And a few of those guys even build the same subjects in 1:1. Interest in pre muscle-car era stuff isn't going away anytime soon. Another thing I've noticed- those Hudsons, Chrysler 300s, '50 Olds coupes, and other "greybeard" subjects that have been introduced over the last few years? I can't help but notice many of them are being built by twenty/thirtysomethings. Not all, but a pretty considerable number. I know I'd be up for a Stude or two... if somebody really wants to floor me, make it a '37 Coupe Express (they could use the same base tooling to do a coupe or convertible version, cough, cough).

That being said, I do agree it would be idiotic of the kit manufacturers to put all their eggs in that particular basket- there are quite a few later (sometimes much later) model subjects which need to be addressed.

Such as a VW Thing- given the fact that there's already workable air-cooled VW kit tooling out there it literally stuns me that there is no such kit, even though that's one that always seems to be on people's most-wanted lists. I'd be more than up for a few of those myself- like you said, quite a few possibilites- flip through a copy of Hot VWs or do some online searching and you'll have at least a half dozen different ideas on how to build one in mind.

[tim boyd]

Oh... ye of little faith.

If that's the case, riddle me this- Why do so many guys in my age bracket (25 to 35, and therefore closer to fifty years, not fifteen, from the grave statistically speaking) buy and build models of old Fords, and yes, even old Studebakers, not that there are many of the latter? And a few of those guys even build the same subjects in 1:1.

Interesting...if I think to the Lonestar Roundup in Austin, TX I attended a few months ago....plenty of graybeards to be sure...but even more of the 20-35 crowd....they were everywhere and having a great time. Come to think of it, pretty much the same at the Detroit Cobo Autorama or Goodguys shows I attend.

While I too wish there were more current kit topics, but from a kit manufacturer standpoint, a hot rod, pre muscle car era, or muscle car era kit probably will have a much longer active/productive/relevant lifespan, and if the shows I attend are any indication, that will continue even as the "AARP Modelers Generation" start to pass away.....

TB

[ChrisBcritter]

I know I'd be up for a Stude or two... if somebody really wants to floor me, make it a '37 Coupe Express (they could use the same base tooling to do a coupe or convertible version, cough, cough).

I don't think Studebaker made a convertible in 1937; I have a dealer book from that year and all it shows are coupes and two-door and four-door sedans.

[Chuck Most]

I don't think Studebaker made a convertible in 1937; I have a dealer book from that year and all it shows are coupes and two-door and four-door sedans.

Doing a little after-the-fact-fact-checking, I think you're right. Still, just sayin' such an animal could support a few spinoffs.

I can't really make a solid business case for that particular subject- I think it would be a decent seller, but not the blockbuster most kit manufacturers seem to want nowadays, but if it's any consolation I'd end up with about three caseloads of the thing.

[Harry P.]

I can't necessarily make a persuasive business case for them, but those Studebaker pickups Greg posted earlier in this thread are way cool!

[Brett Barrow]

They are cool, would probably make a good resin kit subject. I'd say the 50-51 Bulletnose Studebakers would be the most likely candidates for styrene kits. I could see Moebius doing it.

Funny that the other cars in this picture (Olds and Hudsons) have been done recently. Stude would fit right in...

[Motor City]

Uh, in all this conversation, I hear personal desires for a model car kit subject, but no BUSINESS CASE. The latter seriously requires, not implies, numbers. By that I mean projected numbers of such new model kit sold in say 12-24 months; along with a price point that not only covers development and tooling costs, but also production and distribution costs, and leaves behind some profit (Oh I know, that's a BAD word!) behind for the manufacturer.

Anything less than that is but a pusilanimous wishing for one's personal favorite model kit subject of the day (which can change depending on which day of the week one asks!)

Art

How about multiple versions of the 2000 to 2005 Monte Carlo? You have the regular SS, the Supercharged SS, the V8 SS, at least 3 Special Editions, and the regular Monte Carlo without the rear spoiler? The 2006 to 2007 had revised front and rear ends, and some interior modifications, but nothing that would be difficult to tool. The emblems could be separate toolings to keep body modifications down. Decals for each Special Edition shouldn't be too difficult. There could also be a DUB version. I agree with what you are saying, Art, and I have a business degree from U of M, too .