Is it just me ...

[Rob Hall]

And the stamp guys are even older!  I tried two different stamp clubs.   I was the only person there not retired!  

It is sad about some hobbies...once the core older audience dies off, what will the future of those hobbies be?   Or with old cars--who is going to collect brass era cars or 30s classics (the Duesenbergs, etc) in another 10-20 years?

[martinfan5]

It is sad about some hobbies...once the core older audience dies off, what will the future of those hobbies be?   Or with old cars--who is going to collect brass era cars or 30s classics (the Duesenbergs, etc) in another 10-20 years?

I think at least the car part of the hobby is going to be ok 20 years from now,  we have to look at the hobby globally and there are plenty of young people taking part in the hobby of building model cars that I dont think its going to die off when the older builders are gone.  Of course, just my opinion.

[MrBuick]

I know its going to shock many, but even I like older cars too, I respect them for what they are , and there even some that I would love to own, but I also love new(er) cars even more, as thats what I am use too, I was born in 80, so I have no connection to anything really before the 90's.  I have to agree, while I am sure its fun to drive them, for everyday use, I will stick with something from the last 20 years.

I won't argue that for a daily driver, for most people, modern cars are better. Between the safety, comfort, and the fact that most people who "tinker" on their cars don't really know how to fix it on the side of the road, they wouldn't want to drive an older car. Older cars can be modernized, but they're still not going to be a new car. Now, I was born in '86, so I can understand some of where you're coming from, but if you've never actually driven a classic car, you don't know what you're missing. I have no idea how to describe it, but being behind the wheel of my '73 Apollo is just an entirely different experience. The sound, the smell, the fact that you can actually feel the road, the jealous looks from dudes in minivans, the head nods and thumbs up, the gas station conversations...it all adds up to a driving experience rather than just commuting back-and-fourth, and that's what I love about it. So does that make classic cars "better?" Well, in my opinion, it does. Sure, they're not as safe or comfortable (I'll argue reliability, because I've passed plenty of broken-down new vehicles in it), but they're so much more exciting.

Edited April 13, 2016 by MrBuick

[Kit Basher]

It works both ways, I love the '50-'70s cars I grew up with, but I would love to drive a Viper or Aventador.

[Rob Hall]

I've definitely driven classic cars...'67-68 Cougars, a '68 Camaro SS 396, a '69 Mustang, others... they are definitely a different driving experience, but not something I'd want to live with on a daily basis.   My experience with modern cars is they are very reliable...and AAA is always a call away if something breaks down on the road.  The biggest thing I dislike about driving older cars (besides the weak brakes by modern standards) is the poor ergonomics...most non-luxury cars of old don't have any steering wheel/column adjustment and very limited seat adjustment.  Modern cars are just much easier and more comfortable to live with in the grind...

[martinfan5]

I won't argue that for a daily driver, for most people, modern cars are better. Between the safety, comfort, and the fact that most people who "tinker" on their cars don't really know how to fix it on the side of the road, they wouldn't want to drive an older car. Older cars can be modernized, but they're still not going to be a new car. Now, I was born in '86, so I can understand some of where you're coming from, but if you've never actually driven a classic car, you don't know what you're missing. I have no idea how to describe it, but being behind the wheel of my '73 Apollo is just an entirely different experience. The sound, the smell, the fact that you can actually feel the road, the jealous looks from dudes in minivans, the head nods and thumbs up, the gas station conversations...it all adds up to a driving experience rather than just commuting back-and-fourth, and that's what I love about it. So does that make classic cars "better?" Well, in my opinion, it does. Sure, they're not as safe or comfortable (I'll argue reliability, because I've passed plenty of broken-down new vehicles in it), but they're so much more exciting.

My first car was 64 Mecury , and my second car was an 84 olds,  I really liked my 84 Cutlass ,  the Merc, not so much, it was the car Adam Sandler was singing about .

[Ace-Garageguy]

There's probably always going to be some small nucleus of old-machine or scale-model enthusiasts (and philatelists too) who'll keep the embers alive until they flare up into a passion again at some time in the future.

There was a lull in the model car hobby for quite a while, but we're in a new golden age. Just that proves something.

And after all, it's not a bunch of 80-year-old geriatrics who are restoring the magnificent Union Pacific Big Boy locomotive 4014 back to running condition, is it?

Nope. It's younger, stronger people who respect it as something fine from the past that should be preserved and appreciated.

Is the largest steam locomotive ever built any match for a string of modern diesel-electrics? No, but if you've never seen a big steam engine go charging past you at full tilt, you just don't know the real definition of "machine". 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[SfanGoch]

Because that is where people are, where my friends and family are.

"Friends" on Facebook is somewhat a stretch. You may personally know about 25% of those people who are in your "Friends" list. Every other "friend" is picked up along the way during postings on different FB pages. Just because you might have 567 "Friends" doesn't mean that they really are. If your family is on Facebook, time to tell them to put the dammed phone/tablet down and engage in some real face time, especially if you're all in the same house. This reminds me of that stupid Time Warner Cable commercial where there's a family of four sitting in front of a flat screen TV and each one has his/her face buried in one device or another. 

[Rob Hall]

Probably about 75% of my FB friends are people I know in real life, either from the past or present.  And other than my sister, my family members that are on FB live about 2000 miles away,so FB is pretty convenient...

Edited April 13, 2016 by Rob Hall

[Rob Hall]

My first car was 64 Mecury , and my second car was an 84 olds,  I really liked my 84 Cutlass ,  the Merc, not so much, it was the car Adam Sandler was singing about .

Besides my '87 Mustang GT, my favorite old car that I drove quite a bit was the '84 Mercedes 500SEL.  With over 200k miles on it, it was a total money pit, but when it was running well, I loved driving fast out in the desert w/ the huge sunroof open.  Classic big 80s styling....still love that shape.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

... who is going to collect brass era cars or 30s classics (the Duesenbergs, etc) in another 10-20 years?

Investors. The checkbook car-guys. Just like now. 

[Rob Hall]

Investors. The checkbook car-guys. Just like now. 

Yeah, but even now those guys seem to be pretty old..at least the ones I've seen at shows tend to have owners that are well north of 65...

[Ace-Garageguy]

My daily driver for several years was a red one of these, identical but for the color. Will be again in about 3 more months. Certainly not for everyone: no AC, no airbags, no computerized butt warmers or self-adjusting cup-holders, and if you get T-boned you're hamburger...but it sure works for me. 

                                                     

[keyser]

Well, the Amish don't have electricity or indoor plumbing (I assume)...now they are really living in the past, about 300 years ago...

They have to get their pron through the mail  (Funniest commercial currently on)

https://youtu.be/RUFL6tWlf5A

Sweet Beck. Rockets too. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by keyser

[Rob Hall]

Beck Spyders are cool..saw a few at Rennsport Reunion last year.  Porsche has always built cars capable of being daily drivers, a buddy of mine in Colorado has had a Boxster as his only car since 2008--driven it all over the country, and even in the winter. 

[Dave Ambrose]

I think there's a huge disconnect between older and younger modelers.

There are young people building models, but they're not cars, airplanes, or AFVs. My daughter builds Gundams and we went to The Gundam Guys contest in Orange County (CA), This last contest had at least a couple hundred people in attendance, and I'm pretty sure I was the oldest guy in the room. Most people were in their 20's and 30's. They were doing some first-class builds too. Not my favorite subject matter, but you know, we have some stuff in common.

I know it would be nice for a local IPMS contests to have a specific Gundam/Meca category. But most don't. They lump them in with the other sci-fi models. I find it interesting that sci-fi and Gundams are the two fastest growing model categories. It seems to me that people are still building, but not in as great a number, they tend not to participate in clubs, and they're building stuff the current regimes don't particularly accommodate.

One thing I really liked about the Gundam Guys, is that they had novice, intermediate, and expert categories. I'd like to see something similar at our car contests. Maybe just one, or a handful of categories. That way, older modelers who're new to the hobby will have an opportunity for some recognition.

I've noticed is that both the hobby shops I frequent have greatly increased their stock of Gundam/Meca models. There's a sign there if you're willing to look for it.

I also think that some clubs aren't nearly as welcoming as they could be. Near as I can tell, younger people like to build Japanese cars that have been modified for improved performance. Kinda like hot rods, but with a different starting point. In that regard, they're just like us older folks. They like to build the cars they'd love to have, but can't afford. And you know, maybe the model isn't perfect. But, it doesn't have to be perfect for you to appreciate it. And that appreciation seems to be missing sometimes. But I don't see "tuner cars" get a lot of respect.

We have some unknown percentage of modelers who just like to build. They don't belong to a club, they don't go to model shows/contests, and they really don't want to get socially entangled with their model building. I ran across a few of these people at the Good Guys Show. I don't know how many there are, but I'll bet there are a lot.

Then there is sexism. My daughter builds Gundams, and entered a diorama in one of our local IPMS contests. She won third place, which made her very happy. But afterward, an "older" gentleman asked her if her husband approved of her model-building activities. I'm sure he meant well, but I can't decide whether to laugh or facepalm. She's not married, and if she were, her husband had darn well better approve. That said, he's not terribly representative of our local community with has several women members.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Dave Ambrose

[Lownslow]

Theres young people in the Hobby but most of them stick to social media, and in very inclusive groups due to old cooters mouthing off about the wheels or the fact its a import.

[Joe Handley]

Then there is sexism. My daughter builds Gundams, and entered a diorama in one of our local IPMS contests. She won third place, which made her very happy. But afterward, an "older" gentleman asked her if her husband approved of her model-building activities. I'm sure he meant well, but I can't decide whether to laugh or facepalm. She's not married, and if she were, her husband had darn well better approve. That said, he's not terribly representative of our local community with has several women members.

 

This always irritates the heck out of me, and my Sister has run into it recently with the Challenger R/T Classic that she dailies.  About a month back she was cleaning the snow off it so she could come home for lunch (she works only 1.5 miles from home) and had somebody in another Challenger strike of a conversation with her, ending in him questioning her as to if she could handle the car in the snow.  Now she had spent time behind the wheels of my two 80's Turbo Mopars (one of which had a habit of producing sudden and violent levels of torque steer and was called "The Beast" by one of her guy friends.........I still miss that car), drove multiple 4.0l XJ Jeeps (all of which were capable of playing with far sportier cars in straight lines and paved corners), replaced her XJ with a '06 Charger with the 3.5l (Prowler) V-6 (which ran plenty strong for a heavy car with only a 6), then replaced that with this Challenger, so she had plenty of experience healthy cars in adverse conditions, including that Charger, in bad weather.....but since she is a woman and works for a library, this clown automatically assumed it belonged to a husband or boyfriend (who typically drives a 4 cyl 90's Camry) and asked her if it was "his" truck. 

 

We also knew a woman who had an '05 or '06 Charger R/T in a cinnamon red color, she was pulled over for speeding by the officer of a local department that has the reputation of being highly aggressive in anything traffic related..........well, he made the mistake of asking her if "her husband" knew she was driving his car and needless to say, she let him know she did not appreciate that question and that it was in fact HER car......it probably went downhill for that officer from there

Edited April 13, 2016 by Joe Handley

[mikemodeler]

I can see where younger modelers who build either tuner cars or low riders would feel out of place at a club or show that had older members who weren't accepting of those types of vehicles. I personally am not into those two types but I do respect the effort others put into them and would welcome them at a show or club meeting as they have some skills that we all could learn from. Some of the paint jobs on low riders are incredible and way beyond my talent, and while I would probably not even attempt to replicate one, I sure can admire someone who can pull it off.

I have a son who is in his early 20's and he dabbled in models for awhile over the last 10-15 years but never really stuck with it. Part of it was he was into aircraft and I am into cars/trucks, part of it is video games and the last part is his ADD. He tends to want fast results with most things he does and as we know, waiting for paint and glue to dry is not for those types of people!

Part of the reason I have started selling off some of my stash is the realization that I won't build them all and no one in my family will take up the hobby so I might as well whittle it down to those kits I will build and get rid of the rest. When I have been at swap meets and shows lately, I have seen more younger modelers so there is hope!

[MrBuick]

He tends to want fast results with most things he does and as we know, waiting for paint and glue to dry is not for those types of people!

I think this is a huge contributing factor as to why many younger modelers tend to stick to Facebook groups where they get little criticism...my generation was raised with instant gratification and in a time when people are being told everything they do is great and nothing is their fault. Time for dinner? Throw something in the microwave! Want to grill something? Fire up the propane! Want to watch a movie? Pull up Netflix and choose from 1000's of titles! Oh, you failed your History final? Well, the teacher must not have done her job! Oh, you got pregnant when you were 16 and now you aren't educated or qualified to work a job that pays well? Let everyone else support you, it's not your fault! Just watch people in public...so many people are in such a hurry, they often don't even pay attention to what's going on around them...it's just the world we grew up in, and it takes actual effort to slow down and actually take things in. And of course, as many people in this very thread have already proven, every generalization that someone states is taken personally and rather than explaining their point of view, it's easier to hurl insults. I do have one friend who seems mildly interested in building, or at least he's always asking me what I'm working on or looking at my finished builds when he comes over. But, when I try to encourage him to buy a model and give it a shot, even when offering to let him use my paints and stuff so he doesn't have to immediately invest a bunch of money into the hobby, his reaction is "I don't have the patience for that, I'd get discouraged too easily." I try telling him that's why you need 40 kits laying around, lol...so when one get's frustrating you can start on another one until you figure out what to do with the problem kit, but then he goes on about "loosing track of what's what" and so on. To me they just sound like excuses because I think he's afraid of how his first build will turn out, but maybe I'm wrong.

due to old cooters mouthing off about the wheels or the fact its a import.

Is it? Or is it maybe due to the fact that Facebook is pretty much where the majority of younger people spend their time online? It's sort of interesting...to me there seems to be some correlation between user age on forums and Facebook groups with all hobbies. Typically, on a forum the average user age is higher, and typically on that forum there is more criticism and offered advice, whereas Facebook groups are usually made up of much younger people, and typically the criticism is immediately taken with offense and personal attacks are launched. Most of the time you'll see actual discussions (such as this one) on a forum, whereas most of the posts on those Facebook pages are brief, one sentence responses. Most younger people these days simply communicate differently than older generations do and don't like being told something doesn't look good, and they stick to where they're comfortable. Now, yes, there are exceptions...I understand there are "tuner" forums and other things out there that typically have a much younger following, where people are knowledgeable, help each other, etc, but again, I'm generalizing.

And as for the "cooters mouthing off," there are plenty of builds that show up around here that aren't your typical classic car, and if they're done well, they get good feedback. Now, people might say "Nice build, I don't care for big wheels but I like the paint" or "I'm not into imports but that's some nice detail work," but I've never seen or heard anyone say anything along the lines of "That's stupid, why would you build anything that's not a classic?" Most people tend appreciate quality work, no matter the subject matter, but they'll also tell you if you did something that they don't care for. I, for instance, am not overly fond of lots of chrome, and I usually hate the way "big" (Dub or Donk or whatever) wheels on muscle cars, and I might say that if I see a build of a nice muscle car that in my opinion has been ruined by huge, chrome wheels. That doesn't make me right and the builder wrong, it just means we like different things, but just as it's the builders right to post pictures of their creation, it's my right to say "I think it'd look better with stock wheels." But, if they want to be offended by that and tell me to shut it instead of dealing with the fact that someone out there doesn't like their taste, I guess that's their right too.

 

[CFMgarage]

I'm a "younger guy" as I'm coming up on my 29th birthday...

This forum is definitely really welcoming and you guys seem to put up well with my Japanese builds (even though I deleted my under glass posts because I was cluttering the server with my direct picture posts - working on this issue now that I have a host site)...

But you guys seem to be nice about my habit of slamming cars with big wheels and "stretched" tires and I think while you're right that 80-90 percent of this hobby is made up of the older dudes (and some gals)...there are quite of few younger peeps out there.

I have an instagram just for building my models (for those who don't know it's an application on your phone that takes social media to posting and sharing pictures ONLY) -> and there are plenty of younger kids on there pushing amazing models and great creativity, they're just too young for the whole "forums" and "swap meets" lifestyle because they didn't grow into it.

Edited April 13, 2016 by CFMgarage

[unclescott58]

Besides my '87 Mustang GT, my favorite old car that I drove quite a bit was the '84 Mercedes 500SEL.  With over 200k miles on it, it was a total money pit, but when it was running well, I loved driving fast out in the desert w/ the huge sunroof open.  Classic big 80s styling....still love that shape.

 

Old cars? To an old guy like me, those are new cars! ?

[unclescott58]

I'm a "younger guy" as I'm coming up on my 29th birthday...

This forum is definitely really welcoming and you guys seem to put up well with my Japanese builds (even though I deleted my under glass posts because I was cluttering the server with my direct picture posts - working on this issue now that I have a host site)...

But you guys seem to be nice about my habit of slamming cars with big wheels and "stretched" tires and I think while you're right that 80-90 percent of this hobby is made up of the older dudes (and some gals)...there are quite of few younger peeps out there.

I have an instagram just for building my models (for those who don't know it's an application on your phone that takes social media to posting and sharing pictures ONLY) -> and there are plenty of younger kids on there pushing amazing models and great creativity, they're just too young for the whole "forums" and "swap meets" lifestyle because they didn't grow into it.

Thank you for the above Gergo. I think what you've said is probably what's really happening in general. I think we worry too much about "our" hobby, when in reality it's just fine. The "kids" are just taking it in a different direction from what we are seeing. We just need to keep on making sites like this and other things friendly so they do feel welcome when they stumble upon us old foggies. 

[Rob Hall]

Old cars? To an old guy like me, those are new cars! ?

over 30 years old now.  But the Mustang I've had since new. 

[CFMgarage]

Thank you for the above Gergo. I think what you've said is probably what's really happening in general. I think we worry too much about "our" hobby, when in reality it's just fine. The "kids" are just taking it in a different direction from what we are seeing. We just need to keep on making sites like this and other things friendly so they do feel welcome when they stumble upon us old foggies. 

See I am doing my best at being friendly with the guys I see posting on social media (especially on instagram, which seems like the young-generation-favorite for it's simplicity of "upload from your phone and you're done") and I always try to refer them to this site, but not a lot of younger folks do forums now. I did refer to a couple newer guys already though, and like I said I got nothing but love for this forum and how welcoming and experienced you guys are.